An Idea for Doom

[Grubjuice]

Sudden Doom
Instantly forces your Doom spell to damage its target, but in so doing removes Doom from the target places Doom on a cooldown equal to the time that remained when it was removed.

[Inactivity]

Sudden Doom
Instantly forces your Doom spell to damage its target, but in so doing removes Doom from the target places Doom on a cooldown equal to the time that remained when it was removed.

Remove it from Meta, and make Meta buff non-periodic damage only. Seriously, stance twisting is pretty dumb (warriors had it removed, hell, boomkins don't even need to stance twist to tranq anymore), and shouldn't be a part of the regular rotation.

I don't get why anyone hasn't listened to the numerous statement from people explaining that stance-twisting keybinds/macros are really not fun to play?

[Torq]

Remove it from Meta, and make Meta buff non-periodic damage only. Seriously, stance twisting is pretty dumb (warriors had it removed, hell, boomkins don't even need to stance twist to tranq anymore), and shouldn't be a part of the regular rotation.

I don't get why anyone hasn't listened to the numerous statement from people explaining that stance-twisting keybinds/macros are really not fun to play?

I believe that's the point of it still having such a long duration. You'll probably be in Meta (outside of stance twisting) more frequently than that, so if you don't want to twist, you don't have to do it. You'll still be able to refresh Doom before it falls off.

If you do want to stance twist (which is really about keeping Corruption up, not Doom), then you're free to do it, for a small increase in damage.

In fact, I'm not even sure stance twisting is really needed. Before this most recent change to Immo aura, it lost its Meta bonus when you canceled Meta; I'm not sure if that also applies to Corruption, as well. If it does, there's no point to even trying to stance twist; you'll just end up wasting fury for no reason.

[Inactivity]

I believe that's the point of it still having such a long duration. You'll probably be in Meta (outside of stance twisting) more frequently than that, so if you don't want to twist, you don't have to do it. You'll still be able to refresh Doom before it falls off.

If you do want to stance twist (which is really about keeping Corruption up, not Doom), then you're free to do it, for a small increase in damage.

In fact, I'm not even sure stance twisting is really needed. Before this most recent change to Immo aura, it lost its Meta bonus when you canceled Meta; I'm not sure if that also applies to Corruption, as well. If it does, there's no point to even trying to stance twist; you'll just end up wasting fury for no reason.

At least before MOP, the point of the minute duration was to make sure it was snapshotted with as many buffs as possible. Hence, if there's an ideal time to refresh Doom, it must be done in Meta (and thus requires a twist), regardless of whether we are currently in Meta or not. By making Meta not snapshot its damage (like what you are saying might happen to Corruption) and by making Doom castable outside Meta, all stance-twisting is removed, and Doom will simply become a game, as it is on live, of maximizing its power through buffs.

Of course Doom could simply be removed (it serves as another ramp-up that denies Demonology any burst), or have its duration lowered, or all snapshotting could be removed entirely, which would (finally) make Demo "too simple."

[checking facts]

replace corruption with doom for demo.

corruption -> affliction
doom -> demonology
immolate -> destruction

sounds good to me

[Grubjuice]

replace corruption with doom for demo.

corruption -> affliction
doom -> demonology
immolate -> destruction

sounds good to me

no no no, it goes 3-2-1
Afflc= Unstable Affliction + Corruption + Agony (3)
Dem= Corruption + Doom (2)
Dest= Immolate (1)

And if all demo had was doom what would be use on short lived trash? Doom only damages things that live longer than 15 seconds. At least you can get a decent amount of damage from 14 seconds of corruption.

[Jessicka]

no no no, it goes 3-2-1
Afflc= Unstable Affliction + Corruption + Agony (3)
Dem= Corruption + Doom (2)
Dest= Immolate (1)

^ Basically that. Doom itself as Meta only isn't all that bad to be honest, it's infrequent enough and quickly enough done that it's managable. It's pointless yes, because it doesn't actually take any additional skill, and it is what it always has been, free damage, so you'd need to be a complete idiot not to want to keep 100% uptime. I don't know where the idea of complexity for this comes in, because it's no harder to just press a single button to refresh it, than it is to pop Meta, press the button, and pop out of Meta: it's 3 keystrokes that can be managed on a single key with a macro. How is that complex, or adding anything at all to the gameplay of the spec?

My real issue with Meta twisting though is with regards to Corruption. It too frequent, and refreshing with ToC is retarded; aside from the fact the mechanic itself is buggy, it's not entirely under your control so you end up waiting for it to do it's stuff and probably spending too much time Slashing to really benefit in the end - for that reason I wont do it. That refresh has other connotations though, on Madness, Warmaster, Yor'sahj... anywhere you want to use a focus macro, it's just so much less efficient to refresh Corruption with ToC while Meta is up than if you could just cast it manually, or even use any actively cast ability to refresh it. Is it a bad thing to want a button to just do, than to have the end result I want happen off the back of hitting another ability which in turn has another loosely connected ability whos purpose in existence is still confusing me do it for me?

People who are defending this on the basis of 'complexity' are confusing a complex process with an inefficient and tedious one.

[Grubjuice]

i just wish doom had some active use that could be added to it to make it more in our control. Actually to revise my earlier idea, an activated doom tick would make a great execute like Kill Shot or SW:death :

Sudden Doom, 10 sec Cooldown,
Instantly forces your Doom spell to damage its target, only useable on targets below 20% health, If Sudden Doom does not kill the target, then the cooldown is reset. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.

[Solidhype]

That actually sounds like a good idea first I was thinking it is to similar to others but yea, several specs have almost the same execution, hunters with KS, destro, shadow priests etc.

IF it is good instant damage, why the heck not? draintwisting and 2sec before even first execute hit is horrible in my oppinion.
Getting those 2x killshot with my hunter is so satisfying or with my priest, it IS more enjoyable then people think to get those "killblows"

I think you would post this on wow forums as an idea

[Jessicka]

That actually sounds like a good idea first I was thinking it is to similar to others but yea, several specs have almost the same execution, hunters with KS, destro, shadow priests etc.

IF it is good instant damage, why the heck not? draintwisting and 2sec before even first execute hit is horrible in my oppinion.
Getting those 2x killshot with my hunter is so satisfying or with my priest, it IS more enjoyable then people think to get those "killblows"

I think you would post this on wow forums as an idea

We already have an execute in the form of Decimation, (Doom is Demo only now) and it's a bit too similar to the new SPriest ability 'Insanity'. Anything that's "almost the same" as something another spec has, isn't necessarily good for class individuality to be honest. Let's not forget Doom procs Wild Imps, which in turn generate Fury that effectively pays for the cast, and they do damage themselves.

[Inactivity]

Doom honestly needs re-working for shorter fights and fights with burst phases. It needs to be castable outside of Meta (to avoid having to toggle to get it off in the first place, especially on trash) and needs to not have such a large ramp-up mechanic.

For instance, ticks every 6 seconds instead of 15 seconds, and lasting 30 seconds instead of a minute (a minute can still work if it is meant to be a heavy-snapshot ability). Bane of Doom is a massive DPET spell that takes a very long time to realize its damage, which is good if you are gaming snapshots on a boss fight, but not good if you are in a short fight and you only realize a VERY small portion of the biggest DPET spell your stupid spec has.

[Jessicka]

The new Fury system is more than enough to deal with burst phases, it's the single best thing in the game for that in terms of flexibility, and in terms of output when you count in Dark Soul, Wild Imps and Doomguard you're looking at an absolute metric fuck ton of damage in a pretty short space of time. There's no need to make Doom a part of that.

It offers a baseline of essentially free damage that can continue to damage a target long after you switched onto something else, and for that, it's is again, the single best spell in the game for that purpose. I really don't think it needs anything else. Note on Beta it can be applied to more than one target - that alone is an awesome change.

[Grubjuice]

The new Fury system is more than enough to deal with burst phases, it's the single best thing in the game for that in terms of flexibility, and in terms of output when you count in Dark Soul, Wild Imps and Doomguard you're looking at an absolute metric fuck ton of damage in a pretty short space of time. There's no need to make Doom a part of that.

It offers a baseline of essentially free damage that can continue to damage a target long after you switched onto something else, and for that, it's is again, the single best spell in the game for that purpose. I really don't think it needs anything else. Note on Beta it can be applied to more than one target - that alone is an awesome change.

This is all true, i agree. I suppose i just get irritated when i see a mob is going to die in that 15 second window between procs, I just wish i could force that last proc before it dies.

[Torq]

The new Fury system is more than enough to deal with burst phases, it's the single best thing in the game for that in terms of flexibility, and in terms of output when you count in Dark Soul, Wild Imps and Doomguard you're looking at an absolute metric fuck ton of damage in a pretty short space of time. There's no need to make Doom a part of that.

It offers a baseline of essentially free damage that can continue to damage a target long after you switched onto something else, and for that, it's is again, the single best spell in the game for that purpose. I really don't think it needs anything else. Note on Beta it can be applied to more than one target - that alone is an awesome change.

You have the most intense love-hate relationship with the fury system that I've ever seen.

Two days ago you hated it for being too rigid, now you're saying it's got the most flexibility in the game.

OT: Can anyone do me a quick favor and find out if either Doom or Corruption actually snapshot anything now? We established that Immo Aura (before the last change) didn't snapshot the damage bonus from Meta (damage output dropped if you dropped meta to cast RoF), so the question is whether or not that applies to other DoTs, or just was something specific to Immo Aura.

All this crying about having to refresh corruption during Meta to gain the snapshot bonus might be entirely moot.

[Jessicka]

I love the Fury system, I just think Dark Soul is overtuned and is a little too tying as a result. That's not contradictory.

[21:47:09.025] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 4437)
[21:47:11.014] Jessicka gains Metamorphosis from Jessicka
[21:47:11.032] Jessicka casts Metamorphosis
[21:47:11.697] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 4437)
[21:47:14.366] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 4437)
[21:47:17.049] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 4437)
[21:47:19.477] Jessicka casts Doom on Training Dummy
[21:47:19.580] Training Dummy afflicted by Doom from Jessicka
[21:47:20.365] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy *1* (O: 3612)
[21:47:21.104] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1758)
[21:47:21.845] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1767)
[21:47:22.586] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy *1* (O: 3625)
[21:47:23.277] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1765)
[21:47:24.016] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1760)
[21:47:24.758] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy *1* (O: 3640)
[21:47:25.541] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1761)
[21:47:26.372] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1761)
[21:47:26.518] Jessicka's Metamorphosis fades from Jessicka
[21:47:27.054] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1762)
[21:47:27.729] Jessicka casts Corruption on Training Dummy
[21:47:30.223] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 3656)
[21:47:30.712] Jessicka Doom Training Dummy 1 (O: 21002)
[21:47:32.379] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy *1* (O: 7534)
[21:47:34.705] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 3657)
[21:47:36.830] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 3657)
[21:47:39.104] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 3656)
[21:47:40.170] Jessicka gains Metamorphosis from Jessicka
[21:47:40.189] Jessicka casts Metamorphosis
[21:47:41.142] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1669)
[21:47:41.384] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy *1* (O: 10814)
[21:47:41.872] Jessicka Doom Training Dummy 1 (O: 21002)
[21:47:42.019] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1667)
[21:47:42.843] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1661)
[21:47:43.814] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1668)
[21:47:44.008] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 5249)
[21:47:44.688] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1659)
[21:47:45.612] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1659)
[21:47:46.396] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1661)
[21:47:46.686] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 5249)
[21:47:47.369] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1665)
[21:47:48.199] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1660)
[21:47:49.128] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1663)
[21:47:49.422] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy *1* (O: 10814)
[21:47:50.010] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1667)
[21:47:50.988] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy *1* (O: 3440)
[21:47:51.867] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1667)
[21:47:52.013] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 5249)
[21:47:52.746] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy *1* (O: 3434)
[21:47:52.991] Jessicka Doom Training Dummy 1 (O: 21001)
[21:47:53.630] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy *1* (O: 3425)
[21:47:54.603] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy *1* (O: 3440)
[21:47:54.749] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 5249)
[21:47:55.430] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1665)
[21:47:56.355] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1661)
[21:47:57.235] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1670)
[21:47:57.428] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 5249)
[21:47:58.061] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1666)
[21:47:59.088] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy *1* (O: 3431)
[21:47:59.819] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1663)
[21:48:00.062] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 5249)
[21:48:00.793] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1664)
[21:48:01.628] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1665)
[21:48:02.361] Jessicka's Metamorphosis fades from Jessicka
[21:48:02.557] Jessicka Touch of Chaos Training Dummy 1 (O: 1665)
[21:48:02.794] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 3625)
[21:48:04.055] Jessicka Doom Training Dummy 1 (O: 21001)
[21:48:05.459] Jessicka Corruption Training Dummy 1 (O: 3624)

Looks here like Corruption is not, but Doom is. However, that may not be the case, it would seem it's actually the in-flight Touch of Chaos refreshing Corruption after Meta fades, causing Corruption to drop back to it's caster form damage.

Either way, Meta twisting on a single target isn't as I thought viable, but it's still a ballache for multidotting :\

[Phoenexis]

no no no, it goes 3-2-1
Afflc= Unstable Affliction + Corruption + Agony (3)
Dem= Corruption + Doom (2)
Dest= Immolate (1)

And if all demo had was doom what would be use on short lived trash? Doom only damages things that live longer than 15 seconds. At least you can get a decent amount of damage from 14 seconds of corruption.

Am I the only one who would like to see it go 4-3-2?

[Grubjuice]

Am I the only one who would like to see it go 4-3-2?

Unstable Affliction + Corruption + Agony + Malefic Grasp + Drain Soul + Harvest/Drain Life (6)

Doom + Corruption + Shadowflame + Harvest/Drain Life (4)

Immolate + Harvest/Drain Life (2)

[smegdawg]

Unstable Affliction + Corruption + Agony + Malefic Grasp + Drain Soul + Harvest/Drain Life (6)

Doom + Corruption + Shadowflame + Harvest/Drain Life (4)

Immolate + Harvest/Drain Life (2)

Good luck using MG DS and HL together.....

[Grubjuice]

Good luck using MG DS and HL together.....

i was just being facetious.

[Phoenexis]

Unstable Affliction + Corruption + Agony + Malefic Grasp + Drain Soul + Harvest/Drain Life (6)

Doom + Corruption + Shadowflame + Harvest/Drain Life (4)

Immolate + Harvest/Drain Life (2)

Drain Life/Harvest are channeled spells that do not need maintaining. When I talk about DoTs, I mean DoTs that you have to actually manage. Using a filler when you have nothing else to do doesn't scream out "manage" to me...
As for Shadowflame, it doesn't have a 100% uptime.
So no, MG, Harvest and Drain Soul aren't really the original "DoTs"...