US army Camo SNAFU

[Deleted]

American Revolution
American Civil War

Do you really think any of those apply today? Also, the American revolution was against another nation, very little was internal fighting.

[Coldpro]

American Revolution
American Civil War

The country was already divided before the Civil War began, and the South had already began preparing military forces of their own. So it wasn't really the military turning on their own people there. Sure you can say that North vs South meant we turned on our own people, but once they seceded, they weren't really our own people.

[Reeve]

American Revolution
American Civil War

They have to believe there's a good cause to fight for in order for something like that to happen. People will follow orders, but only when they trust the person delivering the orders has a good reason to do so.

[Deleted]

The first part of the civil war will be fought within the military itself, with Officers and troops choosing their sides. Contrary to popular belief, soldiers are not mindless drones that blindly follow every order (most of them anyway).

[Purlina]

Do you really think any of those apply today? Also, the American revolution was against another nation, very little was internal fighting.

I always thought that they where still considered citizens of Britain until the revolution.

[Deleted]

I always thought that they where still considered citizens of Britain until the revolution.

No, they were part of the Empire but were not British. Kind of how Indians were never considered British.

[mindp]

I've heard this alllllll before. This isn't new. A way for a general to leave their mark is to change the standards of dress and appearance. Sometimes this includes new uniform changes that leaves costs to sky rocket. Imagine having to wear a new ribbon, some new lapel item or some useless change. The government has to contract out a couple companies (for legal fairness) to make said new item. Then hundreds-of-thousands of serviceman have to go out and buy it.

And yes, the coolness factor of a new uniform is important. There is always the rumors of prototype aircraft getting canned because it doesn't look cool. Even the poor A-10 was (/is) slated to be axed, I think it was a congressmen that basically said it didn't look "jet age" like. Form over function I guess.

As for the coolness factor, coming from an AF prospective, I think Marines are winning :*( They get all the cool stuff.

[Deleted]

I've heard this alllllll before. This isn't new. A way for a general to leave their mark is to change the standards of dress and appearance. Sometimes this includes new uniform changes that leaves costs to sky rocket. Imagine having to wear a new ribbon, some new lapel item or some useless change. The government has to contract out a couple companies (for legal fairness) to make said new item. Then hundreds-of-thousands of serviceman have to go out and buy it.

And yes, the coolness factor of a new uniform is important. There is always the rumors of prototype aircraft getting canned because it doesn't look cool. Even the poor A-10 was (/is) slated to be axed, I think it was a congressmen that basically said it didn't look "jet age" like. Form over function I guess.

As for the coolness factor, coming from an AF prospective, I think Marines are winning :*( They get all the cool stuff.

Except for dropping the SAW in favour of the M27. Silly marines not using a belt fed weapon for their support.

[Purlina]

No, they were part of the Empire but were not British. Kind of how Indians were never considered British.

So if you originally came from Britain and moved to a colony you where no longer considered a British citizen? I know that many colonists did not originate from Britain, but some did.

[mindp]

Except for dropping the SAW in favour of the M27. Silly marines not using a belt fed weapon for their support.

They have the best looking camo and PT gear!

So if you originally came from Britain and moved to a colony you where no longer considered a British citizen? I know that many colonists did not originate from Britain, but some did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalis..._Revolution%29

I assumed the same until I read some of that. I guess they made an exception for the US colonies because of the diversity?

[Jackmoves]

The first part of the civil war will be fought within the military itself, with Officers and troops choosing their sides. Contrary to popular belief, soldiers are not mindless drones that blindly follow every order (most of them anyway).

Most humans will do stupid shit tbh, can't remember the name of the experiment but it's one of those examples that always gets brought up in psychology, it's forbidden now(as it's considered unethical and some test persons became traumatized by it) but what the test does is this... random people get asked to ask questions to someone sitting in a room, if that person answers wrong they get electrocuted(the person getting "fried" is an actor), it's starts with a light dose but it gets heavier for every question answered wrong, they don't know that it's fake of course, they just follow the instructions from the scientist, they hear the screams from the other person but they can't see him, I think 80% of the test persons continuted "pressing" the button until the person would have been killed had it been real electricty.

In short, most people are sheep. :P

Here it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[Deleted]

So if you originally came from Britain and moved to a colony you where no longer considered a British citizen? I know that many colonists did not originate from Britain, but some did.

Englands first stable colony in America was founded in 1603? if my history is still up to scratch, America rebelled in 1775. Meaning that pretty much all the people that rebelled had been Americans for generations.

---------- Post added 2012-06-25 at 03:29 PM ----------

Most humans will do stupid shit tbh, can't remember the name of the experiment but it's one of those examples that always gets brought up in psychology, it's forbidden now(as it's considered unethical and some test persons became traumatized by it) but what the test does is this... random people get asked to ask questions to someone sitting in a room, if that person answers wrong they get electrocuted(the person getting "fried" is an actor), it's starts with a light dose but it gets heavier for every question answered wrong, they don't know that it's fake of course, they just follow the instructions from the scientist, they hear the screams from the other person but they can't see him, I think 80% of the test persons continuted "pressing" the button until the person would have been killed had it been real electricty.

In short, most people are sheep. :P

The Officers giving the orders will not be sheep, neither will the NCO's. Most people when ordered to shoot a civilian of their own nation will refuse.

[Reeve]

Most humans will do stupid shit tbh, can't remember the name of the experiment but it's one of those examples that always gets brought up in psychology, it's forbidden now(as it's considered unethical and some test persons became traumatized by it) but what the test does is this... random people get asked to ask questions to someone sitting in a room, if that person answers wrong they get electrocuted(the person getting "fried" is an actor), it's starts with a light dose but it gets heavier for every question answered wrong, they don't know that it's fake of course, they just follow the instructions from the scientist, they hear the screams from the other person but they can't see him, I think 80% of the test persons continuted "pressing" the button until the person would have been killed had it been real electricty.

In short, most people are sheep. :P

The Milgram Experiments, and it was 65% in the part of the study that gets quoted most. If you really dig into the data though, it shows that the people who walked into the study with the greatest trust in science as an institution were the ones who also followed through to the end. In the majority of those cases, the people objected strenuously, and in every case where the researcher said, "you have no choice, you must continue," the person involved did not continue. In other words, the study doesn't show that people are sheep. It shows that people are willing to go to extreme measures in the service of something they think is for the greater good when they trust the person giving the orders.

[Jackmoves]

The Officers giving the orders will not be sheep, neither will the NCO's. Most people when ordered to shoot a civilian of their own nation will refuse.

I'm not saying everyone would be sheepish, just that it's really deeply rooted in a lot of humans to do what a person of authority tells them to do.

[Deleted]

The Milgram Experiments, and it was 65% in the part of the study that gets quoted most. If you really dig into the data though, it shows that the people who walked into the study with the greatest trust in science as an institution were the ones who also followed through to the end. In the majority of those cases, the people objected strenuously, and in every case where the researcher said, "you have no choice, you must continue," the person involved did not continue. In other words, the study doesn't show that people are sheep. It shows that people are willing to go to extreme measures in the service of something they think is for the greater good when they trust the person giving the orders.

This is funny because hardly anyone in the military trusts command

[Jackmoves]

The Milgram Experiments, and it was 65% in the part of the study that gets quoted most. If you really dig into the data though, it shows that the people who walked into the study with the greatest trust in science as an institution were the ones who also followed through to the end. In the majority of those cases, the people objected strenuously, and in every case where the researcher said, "you have no choice, you must continue," the person involved did not continue. In other words, the study doesn't show that people are sheep. It shows that people are willing to go to extreme measures in the service of something they think is for the greater good when they trust the person giving the orders.

Yeah, it was quite awhile since I read about it. You put it much better

[Albert the fish]

I've heard this alllllll before. This isn't new. A way for a general to leave their mark is to change the standards of dress and appearance. Sometimes this includes new uniform changes that leaves costs to sky rocket. Imagine having to wear a new ribbon, some new lapel item or some useless change. The government has to contract out a couple companies (for legal fairness) to make said new item. Then hundreds-of-thousands of serviceman have to go out and buy it.

And yes, the coolness factor of a new uniform is important. There is always the rumors of prototype aircraft getting canned because it doesn't look cool. Even the poor A-10 was (/is) slated to be axed, I think it was a congressmen that basically said it didn't look "jet age" like. Form over function I guess.

As for the coolness factor, coming from an AF prospective, I think Marines are winning :*( They get all the cool stuff.

trust me, from a prior AF member, we get the best toys, the Navy is close but not as good.
the only thing the Marines get are awesome uniforms. i do have to concede defeat there, their uniforms rock my socks.

[Purlina]

Englands first stable colony in America was founded in 1603? if my history is still up to scratch, America rebelled in 1775. Meaning that pretty much all the people that rebelled had been Americans for generations.[COLOR="red"]

"A summary of early English common law is provided by Sir William Blackstone, who wrote about the law in 1765-69.[1] Natural-born subjects were born within the dominion of the crown. When the British Empire came into existence, the dominion of the crown expanded. British subjects included not only persons within the United Kingdom but also those throughout the British Empire (the British Dominion). This included both the colonies and the self-governing Dominions, including Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada and Newfoundland. Note that the "dominions" of the Crown include not only Dominions but also colonies.

Individuals born in the dominion were citizens regardless of the status of their parents: children born to visitors or foreigners acquired citizenship (see Jus soli). This reflects the rationale of natural-born citizenship: that citizenship was acquired because British-born subjects would have a ‘natural allegiance’ to the crown as a ‘debt of gratitude’ to the crown for protecting them through infancy. Therefore, citizenship by birth was perpetual and could not be, at common law, removed or revoked regardless of residency."

[Deleted]

"A summary of early English common law is provided by Sir William Blackstone, who wrote about the law in 1765-69.[1] Natural-born subjects were born within the dominion of the crown. When the British Empire came into existence, the dominion of the crown expanded. British subjects included not only persons within the United Kingdom but also those throughout the British Empire (the British Dominion). This included both the colonies and the self-governing Dominions, including Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada and Newfoundland. Note that the "dominions" of the Crown include not only Dominions but also colonies.

Individuals born in the dominion were citizens regardless of the status of their parents: children born to visitors or foreigners acquired citizenship (see Jus soli). This reflects the rationale of natural-born citizenship: that citizenship was acquired because British-born subjects would have a ‘natural allegiance’ to the crown as a ‘debt of gratitude’ to the crown for protecting them through infancy. Therefore, citizenship by birth was perpetual and could not be, at common law, removed or revoked regardless of residency."

The citizens no doubt considered themselves Americans rather than British, or else they would probably not have rebelled. I know for a fact that British soldiers dreaded being Posted to America, it was considered the worst assignment you could get. There was not a lot of love between our countries at the time.

[mindp]

There was not a lot of love between our countries at the time.

What I find amazing is that in todays world, we're like the best of buddies! I've worked with RAF guys, they love being stationed in the US.