Are random items TOO random?

[Aliessil]

Morning,

Whilst playing last night, I had two yellow drops which were both 1handers and both lvl 63. When I identified them, though, the first was a measly 220dps .. and the second was even worse, at 154dps (you can get lvl 46 weapons better than that). Checking the AH this morning, the top DPS on a weapon is 1273dps, and there's probably better ones out there.

So .. a lvl 60 1h weapon can have a dps range of at least 154-1273, which got me to thinking - are the random ranges used when generating a new item too high? Should they be smaller and have less overlap?

For instance, sticking with 1h weapons, something like the following:

lvl 63 = 700-1400dps
lvl 62 = 500-1000dps
lvl 60 = 350-750dps
etc

With this, you may still find that the lvl 63 weapon you've just identified has terrible stats on it, but it's more likely to be useful to someone else. Of course you may then have to lower the drop rates some ...

It's just a thought, but I was wondering what you all think :-)

Alie

[Tomana]

Well, it's exactly like items in D2.
The only difference that in D3, to produce a really nice DPS, a weapon has to have both +XXX damage affix and a +YY% damage affix, which may indeed be a lil' bit too much.

[Keosen]

The stats seems to be completely random even when it comes to iLvl.
You can get lvl63 weapons that are worst than lvl45 or below because this is the way to force you use the AH to what you need.
If there was the narrower bounds you're saying you could just use your drop to progress and it won't be a need to use the AH/RMAH which is the pylon of D3, so yeah good idea but not with the current shitty philosophy.

[Archibalde]

An item reaches an insane amount of DPS because of it's enchantments, though. Look at any of the 1000+ DPS weapons. They're all that way because they have stats like +250 minimum damage, +350 maximum damage and +45% overall damage. Take all of those away, and the base DPS of that weapon would be very low. They would have to nerf the enchantments and boost base damage by quite a lot.

[Daerth]

An item reaches an insane amount of DPS because of it's enchantments, though. Look at any of the 1000+ DPS weapons. They're all that way because they have stats like +250 minimum damage, +350 maximum damage and +45% overall damage. Take all of those away, and the base DPS of that weapon would be very low. They would have to nerf the enchantments and boost base damage by quite a lot.

That's bs :P hardly ANY of the weapons below 1.2k have any damage modifiers. I'm using a 1.1ish xbow which doesn't have anything but little AS buff. There's plenty which don't have anything except for the bonus w/e damage and are stil ~1k.

But other than that I agree, the discrepency is quite huge and can be very depressing. I would like to see it tuned a little better, but then the point with AH was also valid. They want people to use it so they can't give everyone nice loots that they can use.

[Coldkil]

No, they aren't. Keep in mind that lots of stats don't count over the dps displayed on the item - look for a weapon dps calculator to see the actual damage the itmes you drop provides.

[Morae]

No, they aren't. Keep in mind that lots of stats don't count over the dps displayed on the item - look for a weapon dps calculator to see the actual damage the itmes you drop provides.

Too true.

My friend just yesterday found a wand for my wizard. It had crappy dps compared to my old weapon, but the other stats on it were just....massive. The stats were just such that it wasn't displayed on weapon dps directly. Loads of crit dmg bonus, loads of int, ect. . The wand had like way 150dps less and calculator said it went over my old weapon for like few thousand dps. I sure did get it from him.

[Nyanmaru]

That's bs :P hardly ANY of the weapons below 1.2k have any damage modifiers. I'm using a 1.1ish xbow which doesn't have anything but little AS buff. There's plenty which don't have anything except for the bonus w/e damage and are stil ~1k.

But other than that I agree, the discrepency is quite huge and can be very depressing. I would like to see it tuned a little better, but then the point with AH was also valid. They want people to use it so they can't give everyone nice loots that they can use.

I think you are talking about different weapons. Your xbow is a 2hand weapon and he probably talks about 1h weapons. And I don't recall to have seen a 1.0.3 1h weapon above 1k that did not have a +% damage mod.

[Boogums]

That's bs :P hardly ANY of the weapons below 1.2k have any damage modifiers. I'm using a 1.1ish xbow which doesn't have anything but little AS buff. There's plenty which don't have anything except for the bonus w/e damage and are stil ~1k.

But other than that I agree, the discrepency is quite huge and can be very depressing. I would like to see it tuned a little better, but then the point with AH was also valid. They want people to use it so they can't give everyone nice loots that they can use.

Screen shot your weapon, host to imgur, and link it.

[Deleted]

For general gear - no
For weapons - yes

The reason is not in the stats though, its in the way weapons are designed levels wise. For other slots, especially rings, you can find useful items even as low as level 5x that will be great for any character. For weapons if it isn't 63 its almost guaranteed to be useless. The only non-63 weapons that aren't complete and utter crap are 1H with lots of LoH and a socket for those melee tanky builds.

The gap between 63 and lower for weapons is MUCH larger than the gap between 63 and lower for any other piece. Of course some people might be fine with this but I find it pretty stupid.

[Cairhiin]

That's bs :P hardly ANY of the weapons below 1.2k have any damage modifiers. I'm using a 1.1ish xbow which doesn't have anything but little AS buff. There's plenty which don't have anything except for the bonus w/e damage and are stil ~1k.

But other than that I agree, the discrepency is quite huge and can be very depressing. I would like to see it tuned a little better, but then the point with AH was also valid. They want people to use it so they can't give everyone nice loots that they can use.

No he is right. Check the highest ilvl Bow (Revenant Bow). It only does 376.6-380.0 damage. The high damage comes from modifiers like Minimum Damage, Maximum Damage, Increased Damage % and Attack Speed.

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/item/bow/#page=2

[maky13]

That's bs :P hardly ANY of the weapons below 1.2k have any damage modifiers. I'm using a 1.1ish xbow which doesn't have anything but little AS buff. There's plenty which don't have anything except for the bonus w/e damage and are stil ~1k.

Show us a link of any of those weapons.

[Arcangnom]

I somehow doubt you found a ilvl 63 weapon with 154 dps, as the lowest dps you can get on a lvl 63 weapon is 202.5, on a dagger (Darkblade)

[YersiniaPestis]

The problem is that many items are too random in having undetermined stats. I don't mind the stat value to be random, but I do mind Tal Rasha having strength on it. That is plain stupid.

[Deleted]

Well, it's exactly like items in D2.
The only difference that in D3, to produce a really nice DPS, a weapon has to have both +XXX damage affix and a +YY% damage affix, which may indeed be a lil' bit too much.

But it's definitely NOT the same as D2.

In Diablo 2 I NEVER had to carry on to blue quality leveling gear to make it easier on my alts.
You would find plenty of upgrades yourself to make leveling smooth. (uniques were usually worth it to carry on to though, but they were better than the legendaries now, since legendaries are COMPLETELY random as well. So it's likely you'll just find a crap legendary)

In Diablo 3 I am gimped if I try to find every upgrade myself. It's best to dump a lot of blue items in the stash to get the easiest leveling with alts.
Without doing this, I might be running around in lvl 20 items while I'm lvl 50. (which btw, my friend is experiencing right now on his main) Seriously, how can that happen? Only when items are too random.

I'm not against randomization, don't get me wrong. But Diablo 3 has pushed it too far.

And as for the itemization of weapons:

lvl 63 = 700-1400dps
lvl 62 = 500-1000dps
lvl 60 = 350-750dps

should be changed into:

lvl 63 = 1000-1400dps
lvl 62 = 750-1000dps
lvl 60 = 350-750dps

in my opinion.

And legendaries should have fixed stats like uniques in D2, only the numbers should vary imo.

Bottom line is, yes Diablo 3 has pushed things too far. Maybe this was intentional so Blizzard could make more money off the AH, and at the same time they probably hoped that this could expand the game's longevity. Instead it has crushed the will to keep playing of a lot of players.

---------- Post added 2012-06-26 at 11:28 AM ----------

The problem is that many items are too random in having undetermined stats. I don't mind the stat value to be random, but I do mind Tal Rasha having strength on it. That is plain stupid.

Exactly this. Some stats should be fixed, like legendaries and set items. Though the numbers can be random.

This is how it was in Diablo 2, and it worked. As it is in Diablo 3 is just crap.

[Aliessil]

Continuing in a similar vein, would you pay extra when crafting if you could guarantee a specific stat?

e.g. Exalted Sovereign Greaves, lvl 62 boots with 4 random properties. Costs ~30k, 14 essences, 3 tears, 4 tomes.

You can now pay double to guarantee 1 stat, for up to half the stats on the item, so in the case of these boots, you'd pay ...
60k, 28 essences, 6 tears, 8 tomes for 1 guaranteed stat (though the amount is still random)
120k, 56 essences, 12 tears, 16 tomes for 2 guaranteed stats
.. and the last 2 stats are completely random.

[So X for a completely random item,
X + 2X = 3X for 1 guaranteed stat,
X + 2X + 4X = 7X for 2 guaranteed stats, and
X + 2X + 4X + 8X = 15X for 3 guaranteed stats, the maximum]

So you're crafting these boots, you decide you want to guarantee strength and vitality (so 2 stats, the maximum on these), you'd pay in total 210k gold, 98 essences, 21 tears, 28 tomes. How much strength and vitality you get are still random, and the other two stats are random (so you could still get say intellect and poison resist).

Would you pay the extra?

[Tomana]

Continuing in a similar vein, would you pay extra when crafting if you could guarantee a specific stat?

If I'm not mistaken, Blizz said somewhere that you will be able to use gems to force a stat on a crafted item in a future patch. Nothing about the ETA though.

[Daerth]

I think you are talking about different weapons. Your xbow is a 2hand weapon and he probably talks about 1h weapons. And I don't recall to have seen a 1.0.3 1h weapon above 1k that did not have a +% damage mod.

Yes, I was refering to a 2h Xbow rather than 1h. 1h weapons are another story. My apologies, being a DH I'm just in a 2h weapons mindset most of the time.

Talking about 1h weapons oh yes, that's true. The highest DPS I got on a 1h was like 700-800 with some stats. Even that is very rare for me... Most end up ~150 damage lol

Screen shot your weapon, host to imgur, and link it.

I suppose the above clears up the confusion as 2h weapons DPS is a bit different.

[Alka]

Honestly Blizzard didn't make this game so everyone can have the best of the best gear, they planned on making this game that 90% of the items be vendor trash Yellows, Blues, Legendary Items. They're in it for one thing, Money, and what drives for this money are items being rare.

For Blizzard to make a little over $1million+ in the RMAH they just need 500,000 or less transactions to process and if everyone in the world had uber stats in their weapons, armor, etc, drop constantly, it defeats the purpose.

[iggie]

I'd like to see weapons become more balanced dps wise. Oh sweet a nice level 63 1h axe, oh boy this will be good! maybe today is the day! oh.... didn't roll high dps

Oh, and make all resistance more common on Ilevel 61/62/63