End Game Content.

[Roxinius]

BW is ppushing out new content pretty fast for a team with little to no mmo exp i mean could be like wow and have the same raid for 9 moths but we got new bosses to a existing raid then a completely new raid a few months into the game and im looking forward to nightmare ec and the dread masters ops i truely feel bioware is going to succeed with this game with the way that are starting to progress

[Hostagecat]

What I want?

Off rails space combat.
8v8 space dog fights.
4m space flash points.
8/16m space operations.
Fill Ilum with NPCs and make it into an alterac valley where the NPCs compensate for faction imbalance. Players would gather things like armor scraps, when they have enough they would initiate a "push" and NPCs would attack the next position (war riders. LOK TAR). Everything that was fun in AV was thrown out. I miss summoning Invus and Lok, the war riders, unlocking bombers. It should be like that... Just constantly. The further you get into enemy territory the stronger their defenses so it would just be a constant push and carnage of epic proportions followed by being routed by the enemy since they would be getting crazy resources from murdering you guys by the handfuls and thus launch constant attacks against you.

So... space and perpetual world pvp. That.

Dude i totally agree with you, if they added any of those things i would love life. I remember the day/week long AV fights they were so awesome!!!!

[Melkandor]

I hope this game does the trial for up to level 15 soon, so I can decide if I want to buy it or not still

[Hostagecat]

You got that right except SWTOR is so much more than WoW, the PvP is so much better, graphics, companions, Legacy, Fun endgame, much better community ( not all the 13 year old Chuck Norris crap) superb maintenance days, no full days without logging in year after year, New content and Patches all the time, not stuck in terrible Cata for 8 boring months, fun questing without all the lame elves and ferries running around! Not sure where you think Bioware (ripped off WoW who ripped off many before them) because Biowares endgame is fun, WoWs is a rehash year after year after year

This is another funny thing people seem to forget is how badly Blizzard patches there servers, and how major patch days were when you expected not to play much. You gotta give Bioware a nod, they definatley imroved that aspect.

[Melkandor]

This is another funny thing people seem to forget is how badly Blizzard patches there servers, and how major patch days were when you expected not to play much. You gotta give Bioware a nod, they definatley imroved that aspect.

Actually, for WoW, for the past couple patches I've been able to play the moment servers came up. Just making a note of it, sorry if kind of off topic.

[Hostagecat]

Actually, for WoW, for the past couple patches I've been able to play the moment servers came up. Just making a note of it, sorry if kind of off topic.

Yes, last couple major patches have been smooth, however how long did that take them. Years, not that im bashing WoW, i still play it. I still love my 10 level 85s!!! Its just patch days and WoW still leave me wincing!

[Xcitement]

What I want?

Off rails space combat.
8v8 space dog fights.
4m space flash points.
8/16m space operations.
Fill Ilum with NPCs and make it into an alterac valley where the NPCs compensate for faction imbalance. Players would gather things like armor scraps, when they have enough they would initiate a "push" and NPCs would attack the next position (war riders. LOK TAR). Everything that was fun in AV was thrown out. I miss summoning Invus and Lok, the war riders, unlocking bombers. It should be like that... Just constantly. The further you get into enemy territory the stronger their defenses so it would just be a constant push and carnage of epic proportions followed by being routed by the enemy since they would be getting crazy resources from murdering you guys by the handfuls and thus launch constant attacks against you.

So... space and perpetual world pvp. That.

We all would love to see a more open in depth space aspect to the game but I am not expecting to see it till at least the first expansion. Unless the game is a space mmo and let's face it Star Wars was about the characters than the space battles, the game was going to focus on the ground game first. With the space expansion I'd love to see space missions, flashpoints, raids and pvp but I'll be content with waiting for them to do it right.
I like the idea of a persistent PvP world. Something similar to Wintergrasp as in the actual battle occurs once every 2hrs for 30mins and then controlled till the next battle. What the battle entails is something that can be discussed.

One thing that makes me really happy though is they said they are tuning things moving foreward to be so that you can go from hardmode tier x to hardmode tier y, instead of having to back track into an easier mode. Nothing makes a raid get boring quicker to me than having to farm it on one difficulty just to turn around and farm it again on another. I basically want to be able to farm out a raid and get people their gear and then move on to the next thing. But of course that is just in my little perfect world

This will be a nice change. Progression via difficulty level.


A thought just hit me. Now I love Huttball. Fun as hell. Imagine a 3 way Huttball Battle. A large center area with 3 elevated peninsula where you can score. New traps like air locks that suck you into space, pits where tentacles grab you and pull you to your doom etc etc etc. It'll be glorious!

[noahjam326]

I've said it before and I'll say it again (like HK said above), an AV style "zone" whether it be instanced or open world would be amazing in this game. As soon as I saw the badges system I knew an old school AV would work. The problem with original AV was that it took literally days to end, well I should say that was its strength and weakness. The medals system rewards you based on actual contribution, so they could make a Warzone like old school AV that actually lasts for days, if you have to log off then you are given X commendations based on your performance. I was always disappointed when Blizzard didn't capitalize on this, and instead just changed the Battleground. Bioware already has a system in place that rewards you based on participation and performance, just have it reward you when you leave and the battle will continue.

[philefluxx]

There has been a lot of statements about the lack of end game content in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Currently SW:TOR has -

• 4 Warzones
• 16 Hard Mode Flashpoints
• 3 Operations
• 3 World Bosses (1 lvl 49 2 lvl 50's not counting the lower level ones as end game content)

In time these numbers would increase however I would like to hear what else players would like added to the list of End Game Content.

As for my addition I'd like to toss in more mini games such as Swoop Racing & Pazzak.

At this time Id really just like to see something done with Space. Id like to see something along the lines of Jump to Lightspeed added. Id like to be able to customize my own ship, fly from planet to planet should I choose, dog fight, take on REAL space missions.

[Xcitement]

At this time Id really just like to see something done with Space. Id like to see something along the lines of Jump to Lightspeed added. Id like to be able to customize my own ship, fly from planet to planet should I choose, dog fight, take on REAL space missions.

Seriously did you honestly think they'll release a full free flight space package before letting the ground game take hold? STO tried that and look at the crap they have. One is decent the other is crap. They should of focused on making a Space MMO because Star Trek is more about being on those ships and later on developed a solid ground game to add to it.

This is what BioWare is doing but in the other direction. Hell even the beloved SW:G didn't get the space expansion till 16 months after the game release. I for one am not expecting a big addition such as that to show up before the first expansion.

[jayinjersey]

Seriously did you honestly think they'll release a full free flight space package before letting the ground game take hold? STO tried that and look at the crap they have. One is decent the other is crap. They should of focused on making a Space MMO because Star Trek is more about being on those ships and later on developed a solid ground game to add to it.

I have to disagree to an extent...TOS and ST:TNG mainly focus on character stories and not the actual space battles. I beleive STO went too far the other way when they created their game.


On the same hand, I think the level of space combat in SWtOR is about how much you should expect based on the emphasis of space combat in the movies/EU. While space was there...it was more formation flying and such (hell the Falcon battle in Epi4 was more "on rails" then our missions...)...there weren't too many dogfights in SW. maybe 15-20 mintues total


That being said...I'd love some joint missions where lets say a 4 man group has to take one member's ship (or an NPC's ship) and while the NPC flys it, each person hast to man a turret or something. Kind of like Colicoid War Games but moving.

[Xcitement]

I have to disagree to an extent...TOS and ST:TNG mainly focus on character stories and not the actual space battles. I beleive STO went too far the other way when they created their game.


On the same hand, I think the level of space combat in SWtOR is about how much you should expect based on the emphasis of space combat in the movies/EU. While space was there...it was more formation flying and such (hell the Falcon battle in Epi4 was more "on rails" then our missions...)...there weren't too many dogfights in SW. maybe 15-20 mintues total


That being said...I'd love some joint missions where lets say a 4 man group has to take one member's ship (or an NPC's ship) and while the NPC flys it, each person hast to man a turret or something. Kind of like Colicoid War Games but moving.

TOS I'd agree to but TNG had more interaction on the ship than on the planets but then again my memory could be fuzzy. I agree with you and I have said it on the official forums that the space missions is closer to how space was viewed in the movies than an open free flight thing. Not saying I don't want it but look at Episode 3, 4 & 6. The space battle in episode 3 looks just like what we experience in game.

All I'm saying however is that I am surprised that people expected TOR to have a free flight space section @ launch. They love to use SW:G as an example but even the oh so great game that was SW:G didn't have it till 16 months after release for their expansion.

[jayinjersey]

Yes TNG did do more in the ship...but less with it, like battles and such.

[Profyrion]

What I want?

Off rails space combat.
8v8 space dog fights.
4m space flash points.
8/16m space operations.
Fill Ilum with NPCs and make it into an alterac valley where the NPCs compensate for faction imbalance. Players would gather things like armor scraps, when they have enough they would initiate a "push" and NPCs would attack the next position (war riders. LOK TAR). Everything that was fun in AV was thrown out. I miss summoning Invus and Lok, the war riders, unlocking bombers. It should be like that... Just constantly. The further you get into enemy territory the stronger their defenses so it would just be a constant push and carnage of epic proportions followed by being routed by the enemy since they would be getting crazy resources from murdering you guys by the handfuls and thus launch constant attacks against you.

So... space and perpetual world pvp. That.

Wow, yes. More of this.

I hate to invoke sour memories of Wintergrasp, but... There are already vehicles duking it out in the middle of the Ilum PvP area. PERFECT opportunity to let players drive some badass siege vehicles. Who doesn't want to operate an AT-AT? Even if it inevitably devolves into a big deathmatch in the middle of the map, it would still be crazy fun. I'd love to mount one of the HUGE stationary guns on the Republic base to drive back an Imperial offensive.

Space... Space will come. I'm keeping my expectations realistic, but I have a feeling Bioware has some very cool space stuff in store for us.

[Deleted]

It's because people are expecting to be in guild the moment they log in. This term is called more commonly as "spoon fed" in gaming ;P

They've been in guilds in, other mmos, for possibly years.
Going to game with no guild once you log, it feels odd man.
And people expect to be spoon fed operations with little effort on their side, "I just log in and get invite! Maybe even get gear from flashpoints before that!" is what 90% people usually do in guilds. Even I fell to that category after T11 in wow, cough.

Once they get/got into swtor and dont get into said guilds - there's only few people who are ready to be "those guys" who make up operation guilds and start organising those "operation every wednesday, friday and sunday" but lot of people who expect to be invited.


TL;DR:
"No endgame!!"
-"Well have you made few apps to guilds around the servers? Gone tradechat looking for people to join flashpoints? Gotten gear and all that basic stuff? Browsing forums for possibly pug nights?"
"I uh..thats too much effort! going back to mmo X where I just get invite when I log at right time"

[tennesseej]

I have to agree. I don't know what people mean by "no end game." The problem i had before 1.3 was in finding enough people to run PvE content. That was a population and LFG tool problem, not a content problem. SWTOR has more content than WoW did in the 1st six months. So could someone who says their is no end game please explain what they mean? Do you mean that it doesn't have 7+ years of content development? Well, duh.

While that is completely true, unfortunately the game with 7+ years of content development is still around, so new games have to compete with it.

It makes it not very "fair" for new games, but unfortunately that is the way it is right now.

I think for a new game to launch right now, and maintain it's hype membership (that is, to gain a bunch of subs, and not loose a bunch after a few months), it needs to release with a crap ton of endgame content.

Players right now have the choice between current WoW and newly launched MMO's, not newly launched WoW and newly launched MMO's. New MMO's need to hit the ground running to compete with WoW, and unfortunately they cannot complain about their content at launch vs WoW's at launch.

I am currently playing both games and like both for different reasons. My biggest complaint about SWToR so far has been bugs, it has had a lot more bugs than I expected. I have been decently happy with endgame.

[Vankrys]

there is 2 tiers of end game PVE content

Tier 1
7 hard mode flashpoint
2 operations totalling 10 encounters with 3difficulty mode (hm and nighmare share the same lockout though)
2 world boss.
2 daily hub (ilum and correlia)

Over all it's a good amount for a first tier. The only problem is that most content is too easy/short. It's likely because it the first attempt of bioware to endgame raiding, so i will be forgiving. It's better raid introduction than naxxaramas 25 was but, it's not as good as karazhan or cataclysm tiers 11.

Tier 2
First of all having seconds tier available 4 month after release is good, not amazing but good. I remember black temple (3rd tier of TBC) was made available very early in expansion life.

- 1 heroic flashpoint (lost island)
- 1 operation totalling 4 encounters at 2 level level of difficulty (still missing nightmare)
- 1 world boss
- 1 more daily hub (correlia)

Overall, the quality of endgame have definitely been upped. denova and lost island are much more interesting, better design encounter than tier 1. Good progress there.
Quantity wise, it's not good. 4 boss operation? 5 boss tier (including the world boss)? it's way too short. Operation needs to be longer. My guild already killed hard mode Kephess 5 time, we clear the tier 2 PVE content in one night.

I hope tier 3 will maintain the same level of quality but have more boss and ship with nightmare difficulty.

[philefluxx]

In time these numbers would increase however I would like to hear what else players would like added to the list of End Game Content.

Seriously did you honestly think they'll release a full free flight space package before letting the ground game take hold? STO tried that and look at the crap they have. One is decent the other is crap. They should of focused on making a Space MMO because Star Trek is more about being on those ships and later on developed a solid ground game to add to it.

This is what BioWare is doing but in the other direction. Hell even the beloved SW:G didn't get the space expansion till 16 months after the game release. I for one am not expecting a big addition such as that to show up before the first expansion.

Did you seriously just ask me what I wanted to see added to the game and then get all up in arms about not giving the game enough time? What is wrong with you?

Did you also basically say that the addition of real Space content would be too much for players that have been, oh I dunno, eating content faster in today's games than ever before?

In the words of the great Afro Jaxx - Where's your head at?

[notorious98]

As far as complaints about end game content go, the only really good complaints (imo) are that the ops were too buggy and not challenging when the game was first released. In fact the hardest part about Soa was often just dealing with the bugs

However, they have fixed nearly every bug in the ops and I don't think I have seen any in Denova at all. Plus Denova is a good increase in difficulty, not quite where they need to be yet but if they keep going the way they are with the next ops I think we will be in a good place.

Considering when SoA enrages, he still hits like a pussy, yeah, not difficult. The only thing that would be nice about Denova HM would be if they stopped using tight enrage timers and, instead, just made the mechanics a little more difficult. Enrage timers as a difficulty isn't fun.

Edit: Forgot to add this little tidbit. My guild is farming SM Denova at this point (can't get into HM because we're gearing people up). We went into KP NM last night and wiped on Jarg and Sorno because Sorno bugged and couldn't be shot except from a certain angle, but not if you were close to him. Couldn't interrupt heals. Couldn't put damage on him. Terrible, terrible buggy experience.

[Forsedar]

The only thing that would be nice about Denova HM would be if they stopped using tight enrage timers and, instead, just made the mechanics a little more difficult. Enrage timers as a difficulty isn't fun.

A strict enrage timer is still necessary. It requires people to actually attempt to min/max their class for optimal performance as well as paying attention the entire time in order to maximize DPS/Healing. The fights would not be hard at all if the enrage timer was even 1 minute longer. Granted we destroy all of HM EC (even with extreme server lag), I don't have much room to talk. However, I believe they are moving in the right direction. Soa was their first attempt at an endgame boss. Yes it was horrible but the fight mechanics were pretty awesome in theory. They didn't realize people would be clearing all the content so fast (they released 3 difficulties). Bioware even stated that they were surprised and didn't think everything would be facerolled. Thus KP was born and definitely jumped in difficulty. Unfortunately, KP was still a bit of a joke and EC was released with that in mind. There are less and less guilds farming the hardest content as more content is released... that shows for the fact that difficulty is increasing.

I am looking forward to new content in the future. I can't wait for EC Nightmare because HM is really boring. When everyone is full BiS, we spend the majority of the raid night linking pictures of Jennifer Love Hewitt in ops chat.