Border Collies

[Runeforged]

Hey guys, I was thinking about adopting a border collie, or some sort of border collie mix (within a couple of years, when I move out of my parent's house). I think I'd like to gather people's thoughts on them, because I've heard that can be a very frustrating breed to handle. I've been reading up on them for a bit now, and I THINK I could manage one, but it's hard to know what a dog is really going to be like off of paper. Besides that, each dog is different, much like people.

One of the main reasons I want a border collie is because of their intelligence, and their impressive ability to learn vocabulary. I think this would make it a lot easier to train (in some ways). On the other hand I've heard that, because of their intelligence, they can be a handful. Things like figuring out how to get out of the house, open doors, get around fences, etc. They also pick up on very small hand gestures, so if you are trying to teach them to sit with a verbal command and hand gesture, you can hold your hand at a slightly different angle, and the border collie will think it's a different command.

Another reason I was hoping to get one is because they're supposed to be very loyal. I'm looking for a companion for the next 10-15 years, it would be nice if they were interested in sticking around. On the other hand, there is such a thing as too loyal, and that branches out into overprotective behaviour. Barking and howling at strangers, or in a worst case scenario, biting someone or even killing them, is something I definitely do not want. I'm not really sure how to train a dog out of this, if there is even a way, besides getting the dog acquainted with strangers I expect the dog to be in contact with frequently.

These are some of my major concerns

I've seen on a couple of sites that they have a "herding instinct", they were (and still are) mainly used as shepherding dogs, and this behaviour sometimes carries on to things like children and other dogs, which can obviously go very bad, very quickly.
They are also a very high energy breed, and need to be walked once a day at least (or some sort of mental/physical exercise). I regularly go on walks, and occasionally jog through a nearby park, it has a track in it that's 1.5 miles long. I normally go around twice, for a grand total of at least 3 miles(4.8 km) (there's a rather large section that connects one end of the track to the other, it's kind of like a parking lot and isn't marked with distance, so let's just say it's 5 km). Would this be enough exercise to keep it from getting stir crazy and destroying my house? There aren't any "dog park" areas near my house, but I know of several open fields, if I trust the dog enough, I could probably let it loose and play. I've heard they're quite good at catching frisbees.
I've had a few dogs (and cats) growing up, this isn't my first dog or something, but it would be my first "large" breed (as in, reaches up to knees), I'm worried that I might not be able to properly train it for a leash if it keeps pulling away. I don't like strangling dogs with a leash, and might end up letting it go where it wants out of fear of harming it, since with smaller breeds, you give the leash a tug, and their head is pretty much forced into the direction you want to go.

Phew. Anyone have any thoughts? If someone who has experience with border collies could help, I would be grateful.

Sorry about the strange use of pronouns, it's hard to refer to a hypothetical subject without knowing what gender it is. And without using "it"

[hellboyy]

i've had 2 of them them for 5 years now and they are amazing animals. i have always kept dogs and these are the most intelligent, loyal sweet dogs i've ever had.

yes they have a herding instinct but it's more of a playful behaviour than aggressive, sometimes they play tag with me and my brother and they would nip at the back of our legs, bit like they what they do to sheep. when we play fetch with them and they even try to herd the balls, just gather them all into 1 spot.

they are so loyal they never try to hurt you. sometimes i have taken old bones out of their mouth with my hand and they don't even growl, if you try this with some other dogs you are most likely to get your hand bitten off. they have never ever growled at anyone in our house, but they are very good guard dogs. this comes from the instinct to protect the herd i guess. they do bark a lot, but you can train them better, my dogs get more aggressive at other dogs than people. but again you can train them, i know of people that walk them on the street without a leash and they behave extremely well.

yes they are very high energy, when they were growing up it was a bit nasty they would destroy a lot of plants in our yard, just dig them up and tear them to pieces sometimes, but this is more likely because of lack of exercise on some days when i was at work. also this is in their 'teenage years', they grow out of it. if you bring 1 up from a puppy im sure you would have to put up with this kind of behaviour for at least 1 year. they hardly ever tire, usually play fetch for a very long time.

they are very good at identifying words, 1 of them hates getting washed, if we even mention the word bath he just runs and hides somewhere lol. they also follow hand signals very well. they are a very cool breed, but you gotta train them well, and exercise them. i think they would only try to break through fences etc if they are bored, i have a pretty low fence and they have never tried to jump it or break through it and run away. if they wanted to jump it they can do it very easily. if possible get him/her a friend, i'd hate to see them having to spend time without buddy to play with when the owner isn't around.

[Runeforged]

That's good to hear. I really do wish I could get him/her a friend, but I'm not sure if I'm going to have space for two dogs at the same time. As far as the herding instinct goes, I'm more worried about some little kid running through my yard or something and getting the crap scared out of him, and running off to mommy, who then says it's a violent dog and starts stuff. I'm planning on getting one as a puppy. Not necessarily because of the "aww" factor, but because I'd like to make sure they don't develop any bad habits.

[Wynnyelle]

They're great dogs. I adopted an 2 year old Border Collie from his foster home, and he was a joy to have. He had some issues, and we didn't really know much about his upbringing outside of a few months of foster care, so we assume that at some point he was mistreated. We trained him though, and though he remained dog aggressive, he was good with people outside of a select few that would just set him off. He never actually attacked anybody, but he did lunge at their heels and feet and gave them a good fright. He grew out of it once he got older though.

But let me tell you, that dog could run. If he ever got loose, then he would take off and we would have no hope catching him and we'd just have to wait for him to come home. He always did, but it made me worried sick. So we had to exercise him quite frequently in order to keep him happy and give him the stimulation that he needed to keep from getting bored.

With my family and I, he was incredibly lovable and protective. I've never had a more devoted dog, and I wish that he was still with us today (we had to give him up, unfortunately, when we were forced to move to a smaller home with no backyard for him to run in). You can't go wrong with this amazing breed.

[Rhylix]

I have a border collie that used to be my families but they could no longer take care of it properly so I took it with me when I moved.

She is very intelligent, I have not put much effort into training her but I plan on doing so when I get home from deployment. I have not seen much of the herding instinct in her but she is pretty much addicted to playing fetch, which might be a different outlet for the herding thing. When I take her out hiking and to dog parks and such she basically completely ignores other dogs and people if she has a stick to run around with or I am throwing a ball for her. I run her 4-5 times a week as well as taking her on hikes, walking her for 20min + a few times a day and playing with her at home, rough housing playing tug-of-war, etc. She can go pretty much non-stop and loves to play, I have gotten her really riled up fairly often, growling jumping around dashing back and forth etc and while I have gotten scratches and such she has never actually bit or been aggressive in any instance that was not a playful aggressiveness that I initiated, and as soon as I stop playing and tell her to stop she immediately lays down and is cool again. I could go on and on, I really love my dog, but I would say if you raise them right you are going to be hard pressed to find another breed that is as much fun. On a side note, I live in an apartment and she is incredibly well crate trained/ house broken, she has never once peed/pooped in her crate or in my apartment and I have had her for about a year, nor does she chew or otherwise destroy any of my furniture or any of the cabinets or anything, the only thing is she sheds a fair amount so I have to vacuum a couple times a week.

[Logonov]

My uncle and his family have a border collie. Beautiful dog, runs like the wind, and extremely smart. He's a bit of a guppy as far as bravery but 3 out of 4 aint bad. As probably was iterated by above posts it's a dog that needs room to run, as they love to run.

[Hypro]

Border Collies are the easiest dog to train.They are the smartest out of all the breeds(yes it has been proven). Me for one i like my Beagles and Sheppards. But the only down side imo to a collie is that s/he will need a lot of things to keep it busy and be very active with it

[Kathranis]

My favorite breed of dogs, I owned a border collie from about 1997 to 2007 before she died from inoperable cancer. Owned her since she was about two week olds. She was a bit unusual for a border collie in that she was actually pretty mellow. She had the natural herding instincts, and during play should we typically nip at your heels, but she only ever bit me on accident (for example, gripping a bit of rope or a toy too close to her mouth while rough housing).

She was also extremely well-behaved when indoors and didn't actually require potty training (never once made a mess), but that's probably not going to be typical. She would typically sleep on the recliner or on the floor beside it, and would wait by the back door if she needed to go to the bathroom. She was also well behaved when taking rides.

She was very intelligent and easy to train, and also very good at following directions and picking up on commands. For example you could point at something and she'd go to it, or specifically tell her to "go get it" and she'd bring it back. She was also able to identify individuals or objects, IE "go get daddy," "got get mommy," "go get your ball."

She did have a bit of a killer instinct with small animals; she killed several snakes over the years, and once killed a small jackrabbit that had wandered into the yard. She hated cats, remote controlled cars, and a few of my action figures. She didn't have much interaction with other dogs, but we found that she had an "alpha bitch" mentality when she did.

She was extremely affectionate towards people, and we were never really able to break her of the habit of jump up on people. She practically demanded being petted or having physical contact (she would put her head under your hand and nuzzle it). She read human facial expressions and tone of voice perceptively, and would also mimic human facial expressions (such as faintly smiling if you smiled at her).


I don't know if I'd recommend keeping one if you don't have a yard or a place for them to run wild a bit. It's a breed you definitely don't want to keep cooped up in a house all the time.

We had a large back yard and two large pastures on either side of the house, and would often unleash her and let her run through the tall grass or swim in the pond. It was hard to get her to return, but she would always eventually come back. She was thankfully afraid of moving vehicles (we lived near a highway), but I imagine that the herding instincts could spell trouble in some cases.

Anyway, it's a great breed and I'd highly recommend it, just make sure you can give them the attention and physical activity they need.

[Runeforged]

Thanks for your input everyone!

Anyway, it's a great breed and I'd highly recommend it, just make sure you can give them the attention and physical activity they need.

Yeah, I can try, I don't really live in a place where she could run around freely without restraint though. Could I just bring him/her to a field somewhere and let them run loose for a few hours every day? As I mentioned in my original post, I usually go on rather long walks, but I'm not sure if that would be enough exercise for it.

[Kathranis]

It probably depends on the dog. My dad had a coworker who had a border collie and would take it with him all over the place, living in hotels and spending a lot of time in his truck and whatnot, but she was well adjusted.

I'd say if you can find a park or field where the dog can run free a bit without a leash, that would probably be great for it. If not, taking it for walks and playing with it should be good enough. They're very playful. Basically, you just want to keep the dog stimulated. They'll enjoy hide and seek and other games like that, too. Get a tennis ball, firsbee, or a bit of rope or a tied up sock to play tug of war, rough house a little bit, sprint back and forth some. That should be enough activity (you'll almost certainly run out of energy before they do), but they really do love to run free, too.

There are also activity clubs/organizations/competition for breeds like the border collie, you might be able to find one in your area, though I have no experience with anything like that.

[PizzaSHARK]

You can't go wrong with a collie of any variety. All breeds and related breeds are highly intelligent, which makes them easy to train.

They're bred to be herding dogs (usually cattle or sheep), so if you have other pets or little kids or whatever, they'll try to "herd" them around. As a working breed, they're also very energetic and active, so you're going to need to make sure you can put in the time and effort to get them some exercise and playtime, every day, or you're going to see negative/destructive behavior as a result.

[Rhylix]

I live in an apartment and I am military so I work a fair amount but she just chills in her crate while I am gone without any issues. I take her for a walk before I go to work in the morning and play with her and such when I get home, and on my off-days I take her hiking, to dog parks, etc. Even at my apartment I take her outside and let her off her leash and throw a ball for her and no one has said anything to me about it because she is a super sweet dog and honestly does not even really pay attention to people she just plays fetch with me or chills next to me while I am outside hanging out.

[Puck]

Although I never owned one a kind old man a few houses down from me did. I've chatted with him about his beautiful Collie named Girl, he says that she needs a lot of exercise but is otherwise the perfect pet. My dogs have played with her and she's been real gentle.

It's a truly gorgeous breed, but I think it needs a huge commitment to exercise though, the man told me without exercise they become increasingly difficult to handle.

[Khaidu]

I wouldn't suggest a collie if you are not able to give it room to run or a minimum of an hr or more each day of walking, they are an active breed and require a lot of both physcial and mental stimulation, that means lots of walks and training, leaving them to entertain themselves is not for a collie, nor is it fair on the dog. If you are unable to provide enough physical or mental stimulation you will quickly find the collie creating its own jobs, like barking, digging, pacing and destroying things.

Dogs are awesome, but you need to be sure that you can provide what the dog needs, and not just get a dog because you like it, get a dog which will be able to live with your life style.

every dog is trainable, the collie is the fastest learner, but with clicker training you will find that you can train any breed if you get the right dog with the right temperament and have the patience to train.

1 mile isn't much for a dog, they don't go by miles to drain energy, the fact you are saying "I can Try" in regards to exercising the dog means that you may not be able to give a collie what it requires, I would suggest you speak with breeders and read up more on the breed and seriously think about whether or not this breed is really for you. I also wouldn't suggest a larger breed if you are not able to control it, that is just asking for trouble, you need to be able to control your dog at all times, especially if you are around people, if you are afraid of restraining your dog or training it to walk on a loose lead I would not suggest any breed with a herding/dominant temperament, you would be better with a retriever breed which is submissive and easier to handle.

And no you can't just expect a dog to exercise itself by letting it loose in a field, they need more than just being let loose, they like to fetch, run along side you and explore new places, a 2 hour long mountain hike would be a collies version of good exercise as it is both physical and mental stimulation. You need to drain both physical and mental for collies.

[Deleted]

I used to own a collie, now i own a german shepherd + a rotweiler, and my nan had a collie when i was growing up so i know a few things about them. First of all, they are very intelligent as you said and they are easy to train, and if they aren't stimulated properly they can get frustrated and this is when they can become destructive to the house. They need a lot of exercise as well, along with socialising with other people and dogs so you will probably want to take it to training classes (you can probably find one locally).

Just remember they are working dogs so they need the time putting in to make sure they are mentally and physically stimulated throughout the day, and if you cant put the time in this isn't the breed you want.

[Cantheal]

This is Rowdy. He is the 2nd Border Collie I have had and do not think I would ever get another breed of dog. That being said you MUST keep them entertained and give them lots of exercise (note the backpack he wears and loves. I put 2 water bottles in it along with his favorite toy and some treats). If you have a skateboard or bike that is a great way to get in some exercise and anytime I pick up my skateboard or bike Rowdy goes nuts and can't wait to tow me around LOL.

Same thing with a backpack, I pick his backpack up and he is pumped and can't wait for me to put it on him. He even walks different when I put his pack on, he is even more alert than normal and you can just tell he loves wearing it because it makes him feel like he is working which they love. The pack is a must have IMO as not only does it give him a great workout he digs hauling a couple "tall boys" when I go down to the store to grab soem "raid supplies" hehe.

Far as health and grooming I have had no health issues with either Mojo (sadly I left Mojo with my X GF when we split because as much as it pained me I could not take him from her daughter and we had been together for 12 years and had Mojo for 6 of those and it would have crushed the girl in a very hard time) nor Rowdy. Grooming is not so bad even they have a rather long coat I give him a bath about once a week and brush him out every day or 2 but that is only due to the fact I live in Pismo Beach and he digs swimming everytime we go down to the peir or beach. If not for that the grooming is far less even though I hike around the hills here probly 1 time a week.

Socially they are very good, at least the 2 I have had are VERY good around people, other dogs and specially children. Alot of that is up to you though and I would recomend when they are young to just take him out and about with you so when he does see another person, dog or child it isn't this whole new thing to them and they will know how to behave. They are VERY smart and quite easy to train with little effort. They will pick up things very quickly if you just take a small amount of time they will learn new stuff fast.

Some people will say that they can be destructive or you can not own one unless live in the country or bullshit like that but that would only be true if you were lazy and did not take a few min away from WoW or the TV everyday to go for a walk with him. I live in a apartment and I go for a walk or let him tow me on my bike or skateboard pretty much everyday (seriously like a 10 or 15 min walk specially with his backpack is all that is needed, not a marathon) and neither of them have EVER destroyed my house.

Hope this helps but yes, I would highly recomend getting one they are fun, smart and far less work than I have seen people making them out to be. In the end any dog you get can be a handful if you do not give them what they need to be socialized and are to lazy to spend 15-30 min a day interacting with them.

[inboundpaper]

They were fun to have in when I worked at a kennel, that's about all I can say.

[Cantheal]

Had to post a couple more pics of Rowdy chillin wearing his backpack. He loves that thing LOL

[Runeforged]

This is Rowdy. He is the 2nd Border Collie I have had and do not think I would ever get another breed of dog. That being said you MUST keep them entertained and give them lots of exercise (note the backpack he wears and loves. I put 2 water bottles in it along with his favorite toy and some treats). If you have a skateboard or bike that is a great way to get in some exercise and anytime I pick up my skateboard or bike Rowdy goes nuts and can't wait to tow me around LOL.

Same thing with a backpack, I pick his backpack up and he is pumped and can't wait for me to put it on him. He even walks different when I put his pack on, he is even more alert than normal and you can just tell he loves wearing it because it makes him feel like he is working which they love. The pack is a must have IMO as not only does it give him a great workout he digs hauling a couple "tall boys" when I go down to the store to grab soem "raid supplies" hehe.

Far as health and grooming I have had no health issues with either Mojo (sadly I left Mojo with my X GF when we split because as much as it pained me I could not take him from her daughter and we had been together for 12 years and had Mojo for 6 of those and it would have crushed the girl in a very hard time) nor Rowdy. Grooming is not so bad even they have a rather long coat I give him a bath about once a week and brush him out every day or 2 but that is only due to the fact I live in Pismo Beach and he digs swimming everytime we go down to the peir or beach. If not for that the grooming is far less even though I hike around the hills here probly 1 time a week.

Socially they are very good, at least the 2 I have had are VERY good around people, other dogs and specially children. Alot of that is up to you though and I would recomend when they are young to just take him out and about with you so when he does see another person, dog or child it isn't this whole new thing to them and they will know how to behave. They are VERY smart and quite easy to train with little effort. They will pick up things very quickly if you just take a small amount of time they will learn new stuff fast.

Some people will say that they can be destructive or you can not own one unless live in the country or bullshit like that but that would only be true if you were lazy and did not take a few min away from WoW or the TV everyday to go for a walk with him. I live in a apartment and I go for a walk or let him tow me on my bike or skateboard pretty much everyday (seriously like a 10 or 15 min walk specially with his backpack is all that is needed, not a marathon) and neither of them have EVER destroyed my house.

Hope this helps but yes, I would highly recomend getting one they are fun, smart and far less work than I have seen people making them out to be. In the end any dog you get can be a handful if you do not give them what they need to be socialized and are to lazy to spend 15-30 min a day interacting with them.

I honestly never thought about a backpack. I'm not sure what I might put in it, except maybe water, and perhaps my camera.

[Cantheal]

Doesn't matter what you put in it. I always have a bottle of water in each side for the extra weight. He loves it and it gives him a better workout

*edit Don't turn the poor guy into a pack mule and pack it full of lead, just add a small amount so he feels like he is working. Rowdy acts like he enjoys it more with some weight in it than empty and that is why i started doing it.