Further progression?

[Rumex]

I am a Monk with 39k life, 848 resi, 6,5k armor and 16.5k dps, and 680 LoH. I startet farming act 1 inferno, even with MF gear it was a joke. But now on act2 all mobs seems to go mentally ape-shit, and some mobs even 1 shot me. Im beginning to think my char is bugged, inferno is bugged or is the fuckin mobs bugged? Sure i can kite the mobs all day long, but in the end they get the dot-thing if you don't kill them fast enough wich result in a horrible death. My question is, how is it even possible to solo this shit if you can't stand 1 sec in fire, and you can't really get in melee combat with any mobs that have Arcane/Molten.

I just don't understand how this works. Is it really so gear based that you don't even need the skills if you just have a ton of gold and some patience. I tried to search for other threads with people having the same issues as i do. All people just say you need over 800 resi, and you should be fine. But it's like the resi dont even works, i take the same dmg with 300 resi as i do with 848 resi. How much resi do i need to survive? And people also say 16k dps should be fine, i just don't understand how? I can't even kill a treassure goblin fast enough on act2 and 3 before it disappears into that fuckin portal.

And of course, some mobs is even a joke on act2 and 3, but espacially Arcane/Molten range mobs i find pretty hard to deal with, since i can't really get touched by anything before my life is droppin like a rocket. I would like to here some answers on how people deal with those kind of mobs, and how much resi, dps, life, armor do i need to survive without dying every single time i engage a combat.

Here's my build - http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...dXQ!ZXU!ZcabZc

EDIT. I should probably let people know, that im using a dagger in each hand. I tried with a shield for more protection, but it doesnt seem to help at all. It seems that daggers is better for more attack-speed and more cyclones.

[Deleted]

The stats that you posted, are they with or without your mantra and/or follower? For that matter, which follower are you using?

For a DW build, your LoH is lower than what I would personally like because when you go with two weapons, you loose a lot of armor and particularly block from a shield. To make a cyclone build work you need a reasonable amount of crit chance and a lot of LoH to go with it. When I DW'd I started off with total ~800 and when I upgraded for act III I jumped to ~2500.

I noticed you're using mantra of healing. I would suggest changing to mantra of evasion (hard target) and, if you haven't done so already, switch to the enchantress. She will give you a big armor boost and hard target will give you even more. If you still feel like you're still squishy, switch to a ilvl 63 shield with at least 1k armor and, preferably 25% or higher block chance. That's the maximum survival setting you can go.

If your weapon has a socket, you can also switch that to the largest amethyst you can make, for additional LoH. Mine has 300 LoH, which I think costs around 1mil to make. When in combat, keep refreshing your mantra because you get an additional dodge chance from the initial few seconds. Your spirit generation should naturally allow you to keep it up 100% of the fight, as long as you're attacking.

[Rumex]

Oh, so i lack alot of LoH if i wan't to stay DW and still beat act3+ i assume. Im using Mantra of Healing, and the 848 resi is with Mantra of Healing active, without Mantra im sitting on 704 resi. So im not too comfortable with switching to Mantra of Evasion since i will loose alot of resi, but i will give it a try. I am also using the Enchantress merc for more armor and attack speed(?), correct me if im wrong, not sure if it gives attack speed or not.

But i really appreciate your answer, it seems that i have some couple of things to work on. Maybe i can go something else than DW and Cyclone since i dont have that much crit and LoH. Can you suggest a build that don't require that much crit or LoH, cause 2500 LoH is alot for me, and i think it will get pretty damn expensive if i have to buy LoH/crit gear

[Deleted]

Would be great if you could link us your gear, would be a lot easier to help you.

[Firecrest]

This is probably going to come off as snide, but you should consider not standing in the fire. Arcane and Molten are supposed to kill you if you tank them. Both are pretty easy to avoid (most of the time). Step to the side for Molten or kite the mobs back away from Arcane and then go back to killing them.

Beyond that, Dannyl's advice was solid. Mantra of Healing is not a good aura and you really need a lot more LoH if you're going to insist on dual-wielding. I recommend against it though. It's really hard to get even a moderate DPS increase with DW instead of Sword and Shield - and you give up much in terms of survivability. Your call though.

You did not give us your Crit Chance and Crit Damage stats. In the build you’ve chosen to run, these are vitally important. Actually, you should give us all your stats if you want the best informed advice. Honestly though, your DPS, Res and HP are in a fine place. You really should be having little to no trouble in Act II.

Lastly, Dashing Strike is pretty useless. I recommend Earth Ele, but a second Spirit generator (like Deadly Reach) or Blinding Flash works too.

[Deleted]

Oh, so i lack alot of LoH if i wan't to stay DW and still beat act3+ i assume. Im using Mantra of Healing, and the 848 resi is with Mantra of Healing active, without Mantra im sitting on 704 resi. So im not too comfortable with switching to Mantra of Evasion since i will loose alot of resi, but i will give it a try. I am also using the Enchantress merc for more armor and attack speed(?), correct me if im wrong, not sure if it gives attack speed or not.

Well, I'm a little confused what act you are trying to progress on. For act II the resist you have is just fine. Your DPS and HP are also just fine. In fact, after switching from DW to shield I was at 15k DPS for a long time but I could still farm act III without issues. So that shouldn't be an immediate problem for you to fix. Progression is not dependent on DPS in anyway, as long as you don't drop too low. Monks especially are in a nice place with this because there are a couple of ways to boost your damage quite a bit.

E.g. you can switch circle of life to blazing wrath (this I suggest you do anyway). When you overgear an act, you can also switch to mantra of conviction and use the overawe rune. Maintained, together they will give you a 39%/63% damage increase.

I like mantra of evasion more than the mantra of healing because damage reduction wise they offer just about the same benefits. Ofc it depends a lot on your gear but they are pretty equal. But mantra of evasion also has a dodge increase of a total 30% when actively maintained, and even if you don't the 15% you get otherwise is much better imo than what the mantra of healing gives you. The only way I see mantra of healing being better than mantra of evasion is if you invest in HP regen, but I doubt you have. Speaking of dodge btw, I noticed you're also using dashing strike. For that, I suggest you switching to the blinding speed rune. The extra dodge will stack with your mantra of evasion and it can be pretty invaluable sometimes.

It is really good especially against arcane enchanted and molten mobs. If you feel now that they are just cutting you to pieces, don't worry too much about it. That's not going to change, at least in act III unless your gear is really good. When farming, I always try to leave myself a lot of empty space behind me, where I can kite when I face those mobs. With arcane it's pretty simple. Just hit and move and as they drop the purple balls, move away from them and be patient. You'll learn to dance around them eventually. Molten is annoying because they tend to run circles around you and force you over the molten patches. Dashing strike should land you behind the mob, so it's a convenient way to get out of patches of crap.

Alternatively you can dump dashing strike and take blinding flash instead. It's a very nice extra CD, particularly when your mitigation is not that high. You could actually argue that blinding flash is better than dashing strike. I simply like the mobility it affords me. Makes zipping across the room really easy, breaking out when mobs encircle you, and so forth.

I would maybe look into increasing your Dex and bonus armor in your gear. 6.5k with enchantress seems a little low, at least if you want to progress to act III. Even with 8k armor and 1k resist, I can still get hammered pretty hard in act III. Remember, you get armor from str, dex, and extra armor stats. Not saying you should invest in str but you can get it pretty easily.

But i really appreciate your answer, it seems that i have some couple of things to work on. Maybe i can go something else than DW and Cyclone since i dont have that much crit and LoH. Can you suggest a build that don't require that much crit or LoH, cause 2500 LoH is alot for me, and i think it will get pretty damn expensive if i have to buy LoH/crit gear

I wouldn't worry about getting a ton of crit. Many people will say you need 30% or more but personally I have gotten by just fine with a lot less. My current crit chance is no more than 20% and I can still clear the game with little issues. Ofc it helps to have more but when you're progressing for the first time and you have a finite budget, you gotta cut somewhere and crit is an easy one to cut because it costs a lot. One that you could also get to help you out is IAS. I have around 25% right now and you can actually get it pretty cheap on several pieces, like rings. More attacks equals more LoH.

Sorry if this all feels sporadic. Don't know the specifics of your gear and not sure what kind of upgrades you'll be getting, so I'm trying to throw you as many options as I can think of. You can pick and choose your path from there.

[Rumex]

Huge thanks for all the answers, help and advices. I tried switching over to Deadly Reach with Keen Eye for more armor instead of Crippling Waves, and Binding Flash for a extra survival cd instead of Dashing Strike. Also changed Resolve out with Transcendence for more healing, and it feels more easier now. Just took a couple of Zoltun Kulle runs, and there was no trouble at all, even with lower res since i also changed Mantra of Healing out with Mantra of Evasion. So when im feeling a little more comfortable i will try to start progress on act3.

And yeah, sry for not linking all gear and that, but i couldnt think of any easy way of doing it without taking screenshot of all my stuff. Wish we could have an armory like WoW Or maybe theres another easy way of doing it that i dont know of ... But again, thanks for all the helpfull replys, really appreciate it. I will try to pick up advices here and there, and hopefully be a better player

[Kelimbror]

I have very similar stats as you, though my dps completely unbuffed with a shield is just about 18k. This is the build I use, because I also have pretty low LoH. I've tried it out with defensive mantra instead of healing, but this one just seems to work out better for my playstyle. I honestly don't understand what is giving you so many problems, as I was in your boat before I hit our stat level...then the rest of act 2 was cake. With all buffs rolling, including from blind I'm topping out at 27k dps, sitting at 22-23 just from healing.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...gYQ!ZUX!acbYcb

I used to be a supporter of deadly reach, but it just isn't very useful as a spirit gen and keeping cyclone up. After adjusting to using thunderclapped fists it not only provided more dps/spirit, but a way to move in and out of dmg. It does do awkward things that screw you over every now and then, but is really solid for movement and dmg combined.

[Libretto]

Switch to FoT / Thunderclap
Add Deadly Reach / Foresight
Switch to Mantra of Evasion / Backlash (get rid of dashing strike for this)
Switch to enchantress with charm / powered armor / erosion / focused mind
Switch Breath of Heaven rune to Blazing Wrath
Unless you have > 15% crit drop sweeping wind/cyclone, switch to either fire storm or drop sweeping wind altogether for something like earth ally if you're otherwise squishy

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...igk!ZXU!acbcYa is what I use. You use Mantra of Evasion until you're over ~35K DPS unbuffed OR you're over 2K dex. However, that's for A3, for A2 you could probably just use conviction anyway given your other defensive stats. Mantra of Evasion is worthless once over 2K dex as you will have about 40% unbuffed dodge before mantra, and the mantra will then only be giving you about 9% / 7% due to DR. Backlash is very nice for trash but not so great for bursting down elites. Hard Target is unnecessary after 1.03 especially if you're using a shield.

Keep Blazing Wrath and Foresight buffs up. Spam FoT and keep Sweeping Winds up, making sure to cast it only if the two buffs are up.

You probably don't need more resist (I assume ~700-740 without Time of Need) but you need more dex and crit. Use the AH to fix this. If you're using a shield, get one with 9-10% crit, dex, some resist. Block % is mostly irrelevant, it's just used as a stat stick for cyclone.

You will never, ever die in A2 to anything other than making mistakes, and will farm it trivially if you make these changes.

[Riptide]

I like clearing act 3 with 150 loh, 716 resists, 4.8k armor , 44.8k dmg, 51k hp, 196mf all unbuffed no follower. Still a work in progress though shooting for 60k dmg, 5.5k armor, 700 resists, 200 mf.

Oh and before you say WHAT SO LITTLE LOH, get with the times, 5.8% life steal Promise when I'm surrounded and you're surrounded I'm getting thousands more hp a second than you ever will be able to. Not to say I'll pass up LOH if it's on an upgrade already, it's just not that good since I won't die to a single mob, which is where LOH is best. That and when you're doing low dmg.

[Firecrest]

Oh and before you say WHAT SO LITTLE LOH, get with the times, 5.8% life steal Promise when I'm surrounded and you're surrounded I'm getting thousands more hp a second than you ever will be able to. Not to say I'll pass up LOH if it's on an upgrade already, it's just not that good since I won't die to a single mob, which is where LOH is best. That and when you're doing low dmg.

Uh. This is categorically untrue on all counts.

In Inferno Mode, Life Steal is reduced by 80%. That means that your 5.8% lifesteal is more like 1.1%. Which, with your DPS, is about the same as 400 LoH (this is a very rough estimate - there are lots of character specific variables). You really are gimping the hell out of yourself with lifesteal. This is pretty common knowledge. Kripp did a very nice explanation of how this works here. It's from May, but none of the mechanics have changed.

Secondly, I have no idea where you came up with the notion that LoH is best against a single mob. LoH is triggered by any mob you hit so AoE'ing with LoH is all sorts of goodness.

[Riptide]

Uh. This is categorically untrue on all counts.

In Inferno Mode, Life Steal is reduced by 80%. That means that your 5.8% lifesteal is more like 1.1%. Which, with your DPS, is about the same as 400 LoH (this is a very rough estimate - there are lots of character specific variables). You really are gimping the hell out of yourself with lifesteal. This is pretty common knowledge. Kripp did a very nice explanation of how this works here. It's from May, but none of the mechanics have changed.

Secondly, I have no idea where you came up with the notion that LoH is best against a single mob. LoH is triggered by any mob you hit so AoE'ing with LoH is all sorts of goodness.

I understand perfectly how lifesteal works in inferno. However,life on hit does not work on AoE. It works on AoE abilities but it only triggers off a single mob hit(or it's scales differently, I can't remember) this is taken from Wyatt Cheng, whom would happen to know a lot more about the specific mechanics and inner workings than Kripparian. If it's not working as Wyatt described it's likely to be a "bug"

Also you're forgetting to factor in several things. First that is unbuffed, my self buffed dps on char sheet is 50k, not including things like blind and overawe (48%dmg, with a 100% uptime due to my crit) I also have 38 % crit and crit for 150k AoE. I promise you I'm gaining more life per second than another monk with only 2k loh while being surrounded. Life steal also procs off cyclones whereas life on hit does not, it's not like barbs nados or wicked winds.

Perhaps you should understand what you're talking about instead of taking kripparians word from May when people didn't have access to the gear we do now. Life steal is the future, when you're critting for 200k 3% life steal =1200 life on hit. But once you factor in it's 1200 life for each target that you just crit for 200k, well then it becomes quite clear which is better. Anyway as I said for single target or low mob counts loh is better. But as you can see the better you gear gets the better life steal gets and depending on what your abilities hit/crit for lifesteal might just be flat out better even on single target.

Think about those people with bears critting for 700k and demon hunters critting for 400k? LOL LOH? WHATS THAT? HAHA.

Just to clarify, LoH is a fine stat. But I'd prefer 3.00% lifesteal on my weapon rather than 900+ loh. Furthermore I'd rather take a 100 crit dmg gem effectively giving me "LOH" while also providing me with more damage instead of a 600 loh gem. For necks and rings there is arguably room for LoH. But on my weapons, I'd rather have dmg + crit dmg + enhanced dmg + primary + life steal + socket. Unless I was playing a barb trying to get a specific break point for tornados.

@ the op. Your stats are ok, but those people saying your damage is "good enough". Well think of it like this, sure it's doable to take a beating but once you're out of cool downs, you're kiting. If you had more damage you could burst most of those packs down in a blind flash + serenity. So don't think damage isn't a good survival tool, some things just hit way to hard to have a lengthy fight with.

[Firecrest]

I understand perfectly how lifesteal works in inferno. However,life on hit does not work on AoE. It works on AoE abilities but it only triggers off a single mob hit(or it's divided amongst all the targets, I can't remember) this is taken from Wyatt Cheng, whom would happen to know a lot more about the specific mechanics and inner workings than Kripparian. If it's not working as Wyatt described it's likely to be a "bug"

Also you're forgetting to factor in several things. First that is unbuffed, my self buffed dps on char sheet is 50k, not including things like blind and overawe (48%dmg, with a 100% uptime due to my crit) I also have 38 % crit and crit for 150k AoE. I promise you I'm gaining more life per second than another monk with only 2k loh while being surrounded. Life steal also procs off cyclones whereas life on hit does not, it's not like barbs nados or wicked winds.

Perhaps you should understand what you're talking about instead of taking kripparians word from May when people didn't have access to the gear we do now. Life steal is the future, when you're critting for 200k 3% life steal =1200 life on hit. But once you factor in it's 1200 life for each target that you just crit for 200k, well then it becomes quite clear which is better. Anyway as I said for single target or low mob counts loh is better. But as you can see the better you gear gets the better life steal gets and depending on what your abilities hit/crit for lifesteal might just be flat out better even on single target.

Think about those people with bears critting for 700k and demon hunters critting for 400k? LOL LOH? WHATS THAT? HAHA.

Just to clarify, LoH is a fine stat. But I'd prefer 3.00% lifesteal on my weapon rather than 900+ loh. Furthermore I'd rather take a 100 crit dmg gem effectively giving me "LOH" while also providing me with more damage instead of a 600 loh gem. For necks and rings there is arguably room for LoH. But on my weapons, I'd rather have dmg + crit dmg + enhanced dmg + primary + life steal + socket. Unless I was playing a barb trying to get a specific break point for tornados.

@ the op. Your stats are ok, but those people saying your damage is "good enough". Well think of it like this, sure it's doable to take a beating but once you're out of cool downs, you're kiting. If you had more damage you could burst most of those packs down in a blind flash + serenity. So don't think damage isn't a good survival tool, some things just hit way to hard to have a lengthy fight with.

You are wrong. The entirety of the internet and everyone that plays D3 disagrees with you. I just don't know how else to say it. LoH triggers off every mob that's hit and even Blizzard has said that they purposely weakened the hell out of Life Steal due to its OP-ness in D2.

You are wrong.

[Riptide]

You are wrong. The entirety of the internet and everyone that plays D3 disagrees with you. I just don't know how else to say it. LoH triggers off every mob that's hit and even Blizzard has said that they purposely weakened the hell out of Life Steal due to its OP-ness in D2.

You are wrong.

No, I'm not check back in 2 months. Just like everyone said I was wrong before d3 came out and ppl disagreed with me stating exactly how the game would be, just like I said glass cannon was not the way to go after release. Sorry, I'm ahead of the curve and always have been.

Just look at the damn math, I'm sorry you're not capable of being wrong. But buddy, you're wrong.

3.00% life steal on a 200k crit which is quite possible for a monk and easily exceeded for me with abilities like wave of light (i'm personally at 320k crits) that's 1200 life on hit for 1 modifier on a single mob, you are getting at most what 950(not sure on the max, know it's in the 900's though) loh for a single weapon with loh, excluding sockets.

Now that same life on hit scales depending on each ability you use some will give you 400 per hit others 600 some 950 per target no more than that.(that im aware of) That life steal? It's still going to be .6% dmg to life (for 3%) it's going to give me no matter what ability I use and how hard I hit for. Now when I'm hitting for 200k (btw watch that krip video, he agrees with my math too) it's flat out 1200 for every single target I hit. As I said there are several abilities that hit very hard, these abilities will scale much better with gear and life steal.

If you want any more logic explosions, let me know.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6317360#lifesteal

Seems like the one person that matters is on my side too oh.. and to tip the scales in my favor even more. Since I'm also ahead of the curve in gear (for my builds mind you) I'm likely to benefit even more from people continuing to think LOH is the end all be all. Because they'll end up buffing life steal, and you can already see if they make it even 60%, loh lost all it's appeal to anybody who was half decently geared.

[Cairhiin]

You are wrong. The entirety of the internet and everyone that plays D3 disagrees with you. I just don't know how else to say it. LoH triggers off every mob that's hit and even Blizzard has said that they purposely weakened the hell out of Life Steal due to its OP-ness in D2.

You are wrong.

Don't think this is true. Sweeping Wind for instance doesn't proc LoH. However, Thunderclap rune procs LoH on every target it hits and as a result LoH is better (provided you use Thunderclap which most Monks do).

[Riptide]

Don't think this is true. Sweeping Wind for instance doesn't proc LoH. However, Thunderclap rune procs LoH on every target it hits and as a result LoH is better (provided you use Thunderclap which most Monks do).

Yea you're right it does proc on most things but not sweeping winds and cyclone. He was right about that but it doesn't scale at 100% and now that I think about it, aoe abilities scale quite differently with LOH. To the point that you're nerfing your own loh by using an aoe on single target. Well not exactly nerfing it, but you won't be getting 100% of your loh on a single target with an ability like FoT.

[Cairhiin]

Yea, it does proc on most things but sweeping winds and cyclone it does not. He's right about that but it doesn't scale at 100% and now that I think about it, aoe abilities scale quite differently with LOH. To the point that you're nerfing your own loh by using an aoe on single target. Well not exactly nerfing it, but you won't be getting 100% of your loh on a single target with an ability like FoT.

You are right but Thunderclap still procs for 75%/75%/75% for each per target, and since the first two attacks hit twice it's 150%/150%/75% per target, and I don't think Life Leech can compete with that.

[Riptide]

You are right but Thunderclap still procs for 75%/75%/75% for each per target, and since the first two attacks hit twice it's 150%/150%/75% per target, and I don't think Life Leech can compete with that.

Assuming what you said is correct, but I really don't get what you're saying about fot hitting twice so that it would be 5 hits with the 5th being the aoe. But we'll just go with it, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong about the hits. Let's see since I'm at 38% crit that's nearly 2 crits per target at 150k. That's 1800 life from the crits and 360 life for the hits. You're right that's 2160 loh vs your 4750(950 loh weapon). So I'll admit according to you life steal pales in comparison.

OH but we forgot my sweeping winds dmg which ticks for 10-20k and cyclones too(which crit for 18k lol).. this is now bringing it more in line.

I'm really too lazy to model this. Let's not forget that those abilities hit everything around me too. So I'll save you the trouble and concede that for now life on hit would be better for only a handful of mobs.Then again when I'm surrounded I'm getting more HP a second because I'm getting life on everything around me, you're only getting life on mobs right in front of you and not the mobs behind those.

However, I'm only at 44k unbuffed dps, there's monks that are at 100k unbuffed. So you can go ahead and get ready for it... "and then we doubled it". Like I said life steal is the future. Loh isn't bad, it's just not as good on weapons as life steal is. Especially and unquestionably if you're running a 2 hander.

[Cairhiin]

Thunderclap has a small range AoE on every hit. Fists of Thunder only on the third hit.

Yes Life Leech becomes better at high DPS values, I once heard a number of 100k being thrown around, but I seriously doubt that at the numbers you are at Life Leech is better than LoH.

[Riptide]

Thunderclap has a small range AoE on every hit. Fists of Thunder only on the third hit.

Yes Life Leech becomes better at high DPS values, I once heard a number of 100k being thrown around, but I seriously doubt that at the numbers you are at Life Leech is better than LoH.

I use quickening for 100% up time on overawe (which puts me at 61k with blazing wrath)

I already said when I crit life steal is better it's actually quite amusing to watch my hp it's like half-> almost dead-> full hp. If there are a bunch of normal mobs surrounding me I will not die (sans skull cleavers and demonic tremors). It's when there are fewer that it becomes trouble. It also makes a big difference when I have sweeping winds up or not as that keeps me up until I crit.

I would still be interested in seeing a table of how each ability scales for monk as I've only been working on mine for about 2 weeks.

If FoT is 75/75/75 by default and thunderclap adds more aoe, i wouldn't be surprised if it changed the scaling entirely. I do know that runes change how each ability scales with LoH.


edit: found this spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=0&output=html



Man I wish WotHF had something like quickening rather than spirit proc that devalues my crit. I'd be using that because it hits harder.