State of concealment/scrapper?

[iggie]

Whats the current state of concealment/scrapper? As of the last time I asked in some random thread (1-2 patches ago) it was useless compared to the other dps spec for ops/smugs. Against my better judgement I might actually try swtor again, but not if I can't play the spec I like. From what I read in the notes, I'll be hitting like a wet noodle?

[Hellfury]

Isnt garbage but isnt great either.

I been enjoying lethality more, one can dot 2 targets for more DPS like the first 2 bosses of Denova just be carefull of fearfull

[Migey]

Operative/Scoundrel is still terribly designed, absolutely horribly balanced and thought out and more or less useless. Don't bother. Healing is still very effective if you do it right, and hybrid specs are wonderful, but pure dps is horrible.

[iggie]

Just ran a warzone, and wow is it ever useless. Before I'd be breaking 300k damage no sweat, often pushing 500k. Now it's a struggle to break 150k. Doesn't seem like we can win 1v1s anymore either. Sustained dps non existent. Burst like a wet noodle. Sad, sad panda.

Have the numbers of dps ops/scoundrels dropped significantly in warzones? In three games so far I didn't see one dps operative/scoundrel.

[Hellfury]

On PVE I can still compete with all other DPSers, but on PVP I can see the probleam the burst its gone and there is 0 mobility. IAm too invested on my Operative to reroll anyway.

[iggie]

On PVE I can still compete with all other DPSers, but on PVP I can see the probleam the burst its gone and there is 0 mobility. IAm too invested on my Operative to reroll anyway.

My question is will a well played Dirty fighting beat a well played scrapper every time assuming equal gear and skill level.

[Snave]

In PvE concealment operatives are way behind the curve for DPS, go to any raiding log site and look at the parses or look at the simulation crafting that's been done. It's completely possible for a good operative to keep up with mediocre players but they will have to work much harder and have a much less forgiving rotation. Basically you can turn up with a relatively undergeared Mara and easily keep up with a operative assuming skill level is equal. Not many, if any, serious raiding guilds take operatives for DPS.

I mainly PvP on my operative and I do well, I'm a beast 1v1 and if you play to the class strengths you can definitely make an impact to a game, unfortunately it's much easier to do the same with an assassin and bring more utility. If I didn't love the (albeit flawed) mechanics I'd play another class in a heart beat and I know i'd be more effective. The lack of a gap closer makes us sub par in huttball, in fact it's in huttball where most of the issues with the class really show up. Many good operatives will insist that it's a L2P issue and that all is well with the class, there's an element of truth to this because the class is harder to master than the others (imho) but the cold hard fact remains that an equally skilled assassin will offer pretty much all the benefits of an operative but will also bring along a boat load of utility.

To answer your question - no, a well played dirty fighting specced scoundral will not beat a scrapper every time assuming all is equal. In fact if the scrapper gets a lucky crit streak he'll dismantle the dirty fighter. Unfortunately a lot of our success vs other classes comes down to lucky crits. For example I can open on a relatively well geared player and if my attacks crit i'll be looking at a 4k, 4k and 3k so 11k total within the first 3 seconds + a 2k dot which removes the majority of any players health and you can then stun them and finish them off. You can also hit for 2k, 1.5k and 1.5k so 5k + 2k dot using the exact same rotation which doesn't really put you in a very good position to get the kill. Against classes who can self heal through dots or casts, and again assuming skill is equal, this will normally result in defeat.

At the moment energy management is rather clunky and unforgiving but when bioware did their "tell us what's wrong with your class" discussion on the official forums pretty much every dps operative let them know the main problems (gap closer, lack luster dps and energy management) so hopefully they'll pay attention to this and tweak us a little.

TLDR: They're not the best / easiest in PvP or PvE but you can perform to a reasonable level if your skill level is high enough.

[RoninaThorstone]

Lethality is just a better spec.

It has slightly better range. No positional requirement. Better up time. A smoother rotation. Cleanse protection. A second slow (and its aoe).

Yes, it has issues such as target swapping due to the cool down on acid grenade but so does/did mutilate.

There were many seasons where the high/constant pressure of mutilate made it one of the better choices for 2v2 and 3v3. Now, I haven't played for over a year now so I don't know how it is now.

But lethality has a lot of tools that, in my opinion, make it a stronger AC than concealment.

[Revik]

As a 50 scrapper I think the best option for you would be to play as a closer. Preying on the weak because you have very good opening burst.

People who think they are safe or can react to save themselves when they are at 50-70% are the people you will be gunning for. The only change they made was that it was very difficult to 100-0 someone within 1 rotation.

You can still kill people but it is inefficient because you are going to be blowing all of your energy to finish someone off whereas striking someone at 50% works out much better energywise allowing you to move onto the next weakling.

I will concur that you are not going to be liking huttball that much BUT you are one of the few classes that can clear out people on your cat walk in any reasonable amount of time which is something.

IMO I think our damage is about where it should be. What is lacking is being able to get back into stealth more often or having a little more survivability outside of stealth.

[iggie]

As a 50 scrapper I think the best option for you would be to play as a closer. Preying on the weak because you have very good opening burst.

People who think they are safe or can react to save themselves when they are at 50-70% are the people you will be gunning for. The only change they made was that it was very difficult to 100-0 someone within 1 rotation.

You can still kill people but it is inefficient because you are going to be blowing all of your energy to finish someone off whereas striking someone at 50% works out much better energywise allowing you to move onto the next weakling.

I will concur that you are not going to be liking huttball that much BUT you are one of the few classes that can clear out people on your cat walk in any reasonable amount of time which is something.

IMO I think our damage is about where it should be. What is lacking is being able to get back into stealth more often or having a little more survivability outside of stealth.

Scrapper is so obviously a pvp spec, but I don't see us really winning 1v1s. Like you said, we need to prey on people at low HP, and restealthing takes forever. The other night I tried to solo a healing BH... good thing I had food and water beside me.

[Snave]

My experience in warzones seems to be quite different to you guys. I win 90% (easily) of 1v1's, only time I'll struggle is if I'm caught out of stealth and have no cooldowns available but that's standard for any stealth class. I agree that attacking opponents on low health is our best approach because our initial burst can be enough to finish off even well geared players if their health is low, the massive issue with this approach though is the difficulty we have in restealthing. This mechanic needs to be addressed ASAP, it's common place for me to be waiting 30+ seconds dispite not being in combat and being no where near other players.

I'd love bioware to give us a "mini vanish" similar to what marauders have, simply so we can use our openers more frequently and escape from situations. Currently I feel like a sitting duck a great deal of the time.

Seriously though, we're probably the best 1v1 class in the game. Us or assassins IMHO.

[Revik]

Scrapper is so obviously a pvp spec, but I don't see us really winning 1v1s. Like you said, we need to prey on people at low HP, and restealthing takes forever. The other night I tried to solo a healing BH... good thing I had food and water beside me.

I actually disagree with this statement. You can win many 1v1's you just need to know your enemy. Taking down a healer especially a good one can be a bit of drag but it is possible just takes a little bit of time. First thing you need to realize when taking down a healer is to NOT energy starve yourself. Keep a good steady stream of DPS on the healer. The healer is eventually going to have to focus on someone other than themself at which point they will behind in healing then you can blow cooldowns and finish them off. The key thing is when interupting them make sure to let them cast their expensive heal while interrupting their cheaper efficient heal. Eventually you will wear them down and they will die.

I agree with Suave that the issue is being able to restealth. Or if re-stealthing is not an option then we should have more options outside of stealth. The damage we do is acceptable IMO we just need more counter moves or utility outside of stealth.