[5.4] Affliction Warlock and Encounter Specific Guides

[Count Zero]

If you notice it's a 2 target fight. Since you're spending less time doing MG and more casting dots, yes, mastery should be better.

Bah it's late and I'm tired; I was reading the lines wrong. I thought on the single-target chart it said Mastery for Sup, just below Sac@6637 haste. Thanks for clearing that up, haha.

So, for single-target, it's haste stacking for Sup ? Not that it'd be worth it to gear for single-target in ToT, just curious.

[Cyner]

Found my first fight that I prefer Aff over Demonology on, Tortos. The SB:SoC on the bats as soon as they spawn leads to 170k dps easily.


Also, mark this up as the 2nd time this month that I'm agreeing with Evralia. I'm going to make this very clear for all of the Warlocks talking about Simcraft and simming in general right now...

Stop simming T15H and acting like the results matter. Your gear =/= T15H, not even remotely close. That said, Sup in current gear is far ahead of Sac in every situation. In 3 months, that won't be the case.

Clearly you are not reading here. We did not sim t15, we simmed our CURRENT gear, and the results came out with GoSac ahead. So your little rant here is completely unwarranted, if you would have read the information, you would have understood the post.

[Deleted]

I think GoSup and GoSac at current gear are so close so it clearly depends on individuals gear which comes ahead. Personally i just use GoSac for the ease of use. It will scale better with gear anyhow. Although i might try GoSup with Shivarra just for the funs of it.
What needs to be cleared is reagarding GoSac how much they reduced it? is it 20%, 25% or 30% ? It would be nice to get a blue post clarifying this.

---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 10:07 AM ----------

How does Cha Yes pull ahead of Hydra? Is it due to proccing more than Hydra?

[Count Zero]

I think GoSup and GoSac at current gear are so close so it clearly depends on individuals gear which comes ahead. Personally i just use GoSac for the ease of use. It will scale better with gear anyhow. Although i might try GoSup with Shivarra just for the funs of it.
What needs to be cleared is reagarding GoSac how much they reduced it? is it 20%, 25% or 30% ? It would be nice to get a blue post clarifying this.

I've been questing as Sup to get used to pet management again, but I switched to Sac for our initial venture into ToT 'cause I didn't want to realize I'd forgotten to send my pet in if I left it on passive, or see it wandering from mob to mob if I left it on assist.

Either way, I guess I really need to sim myself ... been too long.

[Micke]

So since we know Sac scales better for Aff than Sup does, and that they are both in similar performance single target at the moment with current gear, leads me to wanting to discuss 3 situations:

1. Multitarget: So since Sac relies on MG spam and you do less of it when throwing a bunch of dots/socs around we can conclude Sup is the winner.

2. Singletarget fight with some form of damage modifier: Could we assume that a damage modifier pretty much acts like simply having better gear, meaning Sac will perform better when one comes into play in a fight making it the winner?

3. Multitarget + damage modifier: Ok so this the tricky one, I recon it will have to be based a lot on which one occurs the most in the fight and will be pretty interesting to discuss. It is possible it is a moot point if the 2 above points turns out to not really have THAT big of an actual difference between what Grim you go for.

[Kael]

2. Singletarget fight with some form of damage modifier: Could we assume that a damage modifier pretty much acts like simply having better gear, meaning Sac will perform better when one comes into play in a fight making it the winner?

3. Multitarget + damage modifier: Ok so this the tricky one, I recon it will have to be based a lot on which one occurs the most in the fight and will be pretty interesting to discuss. It is possible it is a moot point if the 2 above points turns out to not really have THAT big of an actual difference between what Grim you go for.

2: this depends on whether or not the bonus in question also affects your pet, and if the bonus is your primary interest, and can also be modified by your personal needs. For example, our team had some bad tactical calls and early deaths lead to Horridon dying WELL after enrage, and I wish I'd been sac-specced for the extra Execute damage provided by the extended <20% phase (I was at 227k and steadily rising when he finally died). Had enrage not been an issue, I'd have wanted to stay sup - as I was - since the entire first section of the fight was pure multi-dotting and we needed to finish mobs off more quickly. In more direct answer, for example, Jin'rokh is supposed to allow pets to benefit from the master being in conductive waters. Since our logs are bugged, I can't compare my pet's damage to expected values to see if it was actually buffed, but if it is, the normal DPS setup applies (Sup > Sac for me, at least before this week); if the pet ISN'T getting buffed, Sac is definitely ahead.

3: I meant to address this itself, but I pretty much answered it in talking about Horridon in 2. It's all about fight priorities; if, for Council, you're running heavy dotting, Sup is definitely ahead. If you're having real issues getting the Loa spirits down or stopping the enemies from capping energy, you might need the extra push from Sac with an unusually high usage of shards for increased burst.

[Micke]

2: this depends on whether or not the bonus in question also affects your pet, and if the bonus is your primary interest, and can also be modified by your personal needs. For example, our team had some bad tactical calls and early deaths lead to Horridon dying WELL after enrage, and I wish I'd been sac-specced for the extra Execute damage provided by the extended <20% phase (I was at 227k and steadily rising when he finally died). Had enrage not been an issue, I'd have wanted to stay sup - as I was - since the entire first section of the fight was pure multi-dotting and we needed to finish mobs off more quickly. In more direct answer, for example, Jin'rokh is supposed to allow pets to benefit from the master being in conductive waters. Since our logs are bugged, I can't compare my pet's damage to expected values to see if it was actually buffed, but if it is, the normal DPS setup applies (Sup > Sac for me, at least before this week); if the pet ISN'T getting buffed, Sac is definitely ahead.

I agree with the notion that a flat % damage buff would affect Sup and Sac equally if the pet is buffed too, but if a buff were to say increase your haste (or cast/melee speed) Sac could pull ahead.

[Woz]

Found my first fight that I prefer Aff over Demonology on, Tortos. The SB:SoC on the bats as soon as they spawn leads to 170k dps easily.


Also, mark this up as the 2nd time this month that I'm agreeing with Evralia. I'm going to make this very clear for all of the Warlocks talking about Simcraft and simming in general right now...

Stop simming T15H and acting like the results matter. Your gear =/= T15H, not even remotely close. That said, Sup in current gear is far ahead of Sac in every situation. In 3 months, that won't be the case.

Pretty much just going to echo Cyner here and say that every single sim I have posted has been with my CURRENT gear. Since I got a couple of pieces last night I'm going to continue simming with that same profile until I get out most of my T14H gear.
While I appreciate the PSA if you had read in the first place you wouldn't have felt the need to say it.

[EvreliaGaming]

So I literally have NO idea what you are simming but you're doing something wrong (outdated version, not redoing gems/enchants?). Honestly.

"My results are different to yours, so you must be doing it wrong". Wow, come on.

My Results: (At 9778 haste and 5499 Mastery, Ilvl 511)
Evrelia_GoSup: 134861 dps
Evrelia_GoSac: 134223 dps

Your Results: (At whatever your armory has)
Simply_GoSup: 134239 dps
Simply_GoSac : 134612 dps

Eack's Results (Ilvl 516):
Eack_GoSup: 138898 dps
Eack_GoSac: 138094

Jelloslock Results (Ilvl 520):
Jelloslock_GoSup: 141513 dps
Jelloslock_GoSac: 140309 dps

Sparkuggz Results (Ilvl 515):
Sparkuggz_GoSup: 138411 dps
Sparkuggz_GoSac: 137978 dps

SimulationCraft 520-1.

Version: Live
Iterations: 50000
World Lag: Low
Length: 450
Vary Length: 0
Fight Style: Patchwerk
Target Level: Raid Boss
Target Race: Humanoid
Num Enemies: 1
Player Skill: Elite

[Deleted]

"My results are different to yours, so you must be doing it wrong". Wow, come on.

My Results: (At 9778 haste and 5499 Mastery, Ilvl 511)
Evrelia_GoSup: 134861 dps
Evrelia_GoSac: 134223 dps

Your Results: (At whatever your armory has)
Simply_GoSup: 134239 dps
Simply_GoSac : 134612 dps

Eack's Results (Ilvl 516):
Eack_GoSup: 138898 dps
Eack_GoSac: 138094

Jelloslock Results (Ilvl 520):
Jelloslock_GoSup: 141513 dps
Jelloslock_GoSac: 140309 dps

Sparkuggz Results (Ilvl 515):
Sparkuggz_GoSup: 138411 dps
Sparkuggz_GoSac: 137978 dps

SimulationCraft 520-1.

Version: Live
Iterations: 50000
World Lag: Low
Length: 450
Vary Length: 0
Fight Style: Patchwerk
Target Level: Raid Boss
Target Race: Humanoid
Num Enemies: 1
Player Skill: Elite

So that means that in every single case you've posted GoSup pulls ahead, but only very slightly. So now let's assume your pet decides to fail only once, or in a worse case twice/thrice in a whole fight. Let's say it switched targets even though you didn't want it to, or the boss is moved and your pet chose to take a completely retarded path, or the boss has some sort of teleport ability and your pet needs to move towards him again - wouldn't that already make GoSac superior again?
I mean the results you've postet are in a perfect world against a patchwerk like boss.


And another thing:
Didn't you mention that it is best to try to balance Mastery/Haste? So how come you're stacking haste up to a point where you almost have twice as much of it as of mastery?

[Brusalk]

So that means that in every single case you've posted GoSup pulls ahead, but only very slightly. So now let's assume your pet decides to fail only a single time in that whole fight. Let's say it switched targets even thoug you didn't want it to, or the boss is moved and your pet chose to take a completely retarded path - wouldn't that already make GoSac superior again?
I mean the results you've postet are in a perfect world against a patchwerk like boss.

He also didn't post the DPS error he got. At 10000 iterations it's around 100 usually, so it's probably not that large at 50000, but it puts the numbers even closer.

[EvreliaGaming]

So that means that in every single case you've posted GoSup pulls ahead, but only very slightly. So now let's assume your pet decides to fail only once, or in a worse case twice/thrice in a whole fight. Let's say it switched targets even though you didn't want it to, or the boss is moved and your pet chose to take a completely retarded path, or the boss has some sort of teleport ability and your pet needs to move towards him again - wouldn't that already make GoSac superior again?
I mean the results you've postet are in a perfect world against a patchwerk like boss.

Doesn't make a difference. As stated before, having more targets shifts things in favor of Sup even more. Pets don't switch targets when you dont want them to unless you're playing with it on assist and can't control it.

Also, flawed logic. It's far more likely that the player will decide to fail than the pet will.

[Deleted]

Also, flawed logic. It's far more likely that the player will decide to fail than the pet will.

That was kinda my point. Doesn't matter if it's the player or the pet who fails. I was talking about pet handling problems in general.

[EvreliaGaming]

He also didn't post the DPS error he got. At 10000 iterations it's around 100 usually, so it's probably not that large at 50000, but it puts the numbers even closer.

No, it gives potential for the numbers to be closer, or further apart.

Dps error was around 25.

[Deleted]

@Evrelia
And what about the stat priority? Did it change with 5.2 and going with GoSup? Some guys in this thread said that you should rather go for mastery than haste, but in your simulations you stacked haste up to 9,7k.

[Deleted]

well, pets doesnt scale with mastery, haste does, so it should be more valuable than 5.1, i just dont know how much more valuable but my gut tells me that haste is the way to go with GoSup.

[Deleted]

well, mastery doesnt scale with pet, haste does, so it should be more valuable than 5.1, i just dont know how much more valuable but my gut tells me that haste is the way to go with GoSup.

So with GoSup you should stack haste, but with GoSac you should have a balance between haste/mastery. Do you guys think it's going to be complicated to switch between GoSac/GoSup when an encounter requires you to sacrifice your pet? I mean to get the most out of GoSac you'd have to reforge your gear in addition to changing the talent, wouldn't you?

[Deleted]

You should also remember that the new RPPM system scales with haste. So when you have the new trinkets the value of haste should also increase

[Deleted]

hey guys, I was quite confused because on Manflask there is an affliction guide that suggests going FULL haste, contrary to Evrelia who says a balance of the two is better. I did try this and actually my simcraft says that he his right. My reforge plots tell me Im pretty much at my highest possible dps right now (9600 haste 4900 Mastery, 126000dps, ilvl 505 with 4pc t14)

So is Evrelia wrong about the stat weights? Or will they get closer when our gear gets better? Is Simcraft wrong?

[Lysakers]

The fact most people forget to calculate with here is the mastery buff.

Add the 3000 mastery he gains from the mastery buff and he is pretty even on both haste and mastery.
I was puzzled by this fact as well, and checked out Sparkuggz, and he does the same thing.

Edit: Also when running SimCraft, the 3000 mastery buff is calculated.
So if SC tells you to take 9k haste and 4k mastery that will in a fully buffed up raid equal 7k mastery.