Redefining a Genre?

[Deleted]

If you've ever swung a sword in real life, whether it be a katana or hell for the fun of it a 'great' sword, or just even an axe to chop wood. You can NOT run around and swing that thing effectively. If you want to have the maximum force / ability, and hell the tool at hand sometimes forces it, you'll be using quite a bit of your body mass. Moment your tool stops, there is going to be an opposite force applied to you when your hands try to retract said tool back, or you can throw it, that's also fun.
I assumed ANet knew this bit, it's not going to happen in real life, if you want it to conform to reality, then make it conform to reality.

Please do point out exactly where in my post I explicitly say "true action combat is exactly how things would've worked in real life with the equivalent weapons", because the Gods know I can't find it.

I'm saying "true action combat" isn't applicable to TERA. It has nothing to do with how things work in the real world, nor whether "true action combat" exists in GW2, nor whether I think "true action combat" is a good or a bad thing.

[Remilia]

What...

Check this video, it's full of move and attack. Might be confusing because it's pro's playing, but this is basically the best melee system in the game world right now. True action, skill based.

[video=youtube;8cVMhbrESHQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cVMhbrESHQ[video]

Now imagine this in an MMO. I'd jizz.

Never tried the game before, so I can't comment on it. I wouldn't say it's true honestly, as that word apparently is being juggled all over the place.

Please do point out exactly where in my post I explicitly say "true action combat is exactly how things would've worked in real life with the equivalent weapons", because the Gods know I can't find it.

I'm saying "true action combat" isn't applicable to TERA. It has nothing to do with how things work in the real world, nor whether "true action combat" exists in GW2, nor whether I think "true action combat" is a good or a bad thing.

Well, you linked the definition of true.

[Deleted]

Well, you linked the definition of true.

Still not seeing the quote where I say that "true action combat" is how things work in reality.

[Remilia]

Still not seeing the quote where I say that "true action combat" is how things work in reality.

Welp, you derived from true, which magically comes out as mobile, which you probably shouldn't have even linked that word which isn't even the definition of it.

Either way this is just completely off topic now.

[Daverid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cVMhbrESHQ

That looks ... Completely and utterly beyond ridiculous. No further comments.

To pass a judgement on the whole "Redefining the Genre" stuff. It is simply to early to tell.

Personally for me, something that redefines the genre is a game that then causes all other subsequent games in that genre to follow hot in it's footsteps. WoW is the natural example here, the game turned the genre in a direction that just about every MMO tried to copy. Even in 2011/2012 you've got MMO's being made (SWTOR) that take a vast majority of the elements WoW brought forward and then try to add their own "Defining Perk".

The Original Call of Duty : Modern Warfare did the same thing, it redefined the genre, so much so that even today there is still FPS's being made that are completely based on it's Design Model.

So if every MMO starts following in GW2's footsteps, then perhaps I'd call it Genre Redefining. But as it stands, I don't think so, in reality all they've done is take the popular elements of many recent MMO's and join them together into one nice bundle. Dodging and Spell Aiming? TERA. Dynamic Events? RIFT. Fully Voiced Storylines and Cutscenes? SWTOR.

I'd say many of the MMO's recently have brought something new to the table, Guildwars 2 is no exception. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and think they've done a fantastic job, and it certainly has it's own new elements and cool aspects, but I really don't think it is or will be 'Genre Redefining'.

[ZeroWashu]

Where did people get the Guild Wars 2 is "Redefining the Genre" crap from?!

I enjoyed GW2, but I don't feel it is even close to "genre defining" and was fairly let down by how ordinary it is for an mmo. I am not here just to bash it, im curious to see why some people declare it genre defining and if anyone else agrees.

Well there are these types of players who jump from game to game proclaiming each to be the end all of gaming. They burn through games pretty quickly, rarely sticking with any one game more than a few months.

It certainly is a grindy MMO but all of them are aren't they? They just repackage the poo with flowers so you don't think its always poo your stepping in. If anything the personal story side reminds me way too much of SWTOR, down to the stupid veterans which some classes just have to zerg/get lucky with. Travel for those personal stories gets obnoxious too.

Skill challenges are like personal stories. Some classes can waltz through (actually lets rephrase that, your class story difficulty can be vastly different not only on profession but also by race) them while others are handed their ass.

While the graphics are not ground breaking, how they display long distance views is very good. The issue I take with people who claim the graphics are all so amazing is this, damn I haven't seen so much clipping since I last when to the barber shop.

This cash shop is one of the worst I have seen. Talk about over priced. LOTRO got bad but they never were this mean about it. By that I am referring to buy increments are different than most purchase increments to where you always have to overbuy. Worse, there is no discount for larger purchases.

With all the problems with the AH they should at least put coins on sale to say "Sorry" but this is ANet and this is Funcom.... and I know what that A really stands for.

[Deleted]

The thing that I believe changed with GW2 compared to other mmos is, as well as they marketed it, that you can play the game as you want. I dont have to grind through all those pve levels in order to be able to pvp on a competitive level, hey I can even level purely through pvp! And, if I was one of those who hated pvp to the guts, then there's a big world with no pvp of any kind that I can explore.

Also casuality which goes with what I mentioned above. I can start pvp on a competitive level instantly, just the skill learning curve. I have limited time to play, only playing on main and it's lvl 11 in the world and rank 12 in spvp and I feel no rush to getting higher. I will get there eventually and I will have fun while doing it and I wont be missing out on anything or need to rush to catch up. The game will last for a long time that I can play whenever and however I feel like. It's hard to find in any other mmo out there, I cant even think about one.

[papajohn4]

"Would" you actually not tab target though? You're handicapping yourself when you don't need to. You're making it harder on yourself and in that essence it really isn't an option if you want to perform at your best and accidentally screw over your party. Others already said the same thing as it's an extra. Fact though after I ask whether they wouldn't use tab target because it's an option, answer is no.
In Tera you're forced into it. Whether you like the combat or not is a different thing.
Also the 'rooting' yourself, do you want to be broken? To be able to perform a very strong attack and still move just as fast and have absolutely no repercussion is pretty broken.
I believe some people complain about it in GW2, and it's there for a reason.

I don't understand really...so tera has action combat because you cannot target a mob but aim at it...GW2 is not an action combat because it is offer what Tera does but also has another option? So You can play like Tera in GW2 and much better because skills don't root you, but because it is easier to play with tab target or because the other players maybe play with target you neglect that GW2 has action combat. I play with both ways..sometimes I do get target but some times I just step into and aim at mobs..Also keep in mind that if you have Right mouse button pressed in GW2 (usually when you are strafing and you need to constantly adjust the camera) then the spells ignore the target and just aim to the direction you are...so many people already playing with option 1 without even knowing

Also, I don't see anyone complain because they can use spell while moving...but I saw a lot people complain in Tera for being rooted when they had to use a skill. The question is if GW2 combat is action combat or if it is the same as previous MMO's like wow, rift, swtor. My answer is that is action combat, with the option to tab target if you want. Even the active dodge makes a lot of difference in combat style with these MMOs

[Artorias]

Where did people get the Guild Wars 2 is "Redefining the Genre" crap from?!

I've been playing for the last week and love the animations, the skills, the way you swap weapons and get a whole new set of skills but really don't see that its vastly different to anything we've seen before.

The world events are basically just quests you don't have to pick up or hand in, as most of them take place in the same way in the same place, like a quest does. Also this is hardly a new concept - they are identical to rift's in Rift just more common.


The graphics aren't "ground breaking" in the sense that TERA's are as good if not better.

The story quests are great but again, this was done in Age of Conan and SWTOR.

Points of Interest are quite cool but again, all you do is run to them and 90% of the time there is nothing there to do.

"Skill Challenges" are similar / the same as puzzles in Rift or running into an elite rare in WoW.

Vista's are, in fairness, pretty unique and I enjoyed the ones that you had to work out how to get to.

It has a cash shop that sells armor skins, experience boosts, pets, more bank space etc which you'd get in most F2P mmos in a cash shop and free in most paid mmos.


I enjoyed GW2, but I don't feel it is even close to "genre defining" and was fairly let down by how ordinary it is for an mmo. I am not here just to bash it, im curious to see why some people declare it genre defining and if anyone else agrees.

The 'redefining' part comes from 1. Dynamic Events, and 2. Level Scaling. Everything you listed is just extras to make sure you get the most out of the stunning environment.

DE's are substantially different from quests because of two reasons:
1. They are ongoing. They represent the constant ebb and flow between different factions, and are far more than simple quests. Heart quests are quests, DE's are not.
2. They are... dynamic. DE's have multiple outcomes, and each outcome can lead to different strings of events. In Orr they have what are called 'event webs' which have literally dozens of possible outcomes, all of which create an overall sense of global conflict. The final zones are just all out warfare, and are sure as hell not 'quest zones' lol. You have to take a team of people to capture zones and push the enemy back, or they WILL push you back.

And don't forget level scaling, which removes the idea that if you get a friend that starts a new character, you have to start one too. You can go back and repeat any content without over leveling it. That is epic. Inb4 "who the hell wants to go back and kill chickens for level 3 farmers!?", again, it's much more involved than that. Even starting zones have epic content in this game, and the DE's are fun as hell.

Remember, it's all about fun. FUN.

[wvx]

To be honest the most enjoyable thing in GW2 for me is jumping puzzles, which is funny because I thought I would like this the least out of all the other features

The Lion's Arch puzzle is fantastic.

And yeah, the game is not really "genre defining", but it's a cool mix of not-so-commonly-seen features in MMOs.

From ALL the games that I played it was the most enjoyable to max level it ... and the jumping puzzles are GREAT . I got to lvl80 and I only have explored about 35-38% of the world , I mean WTF , I think the world is like 40-50 times the size of WoW .

[Assass1n]

i'd like it better if maybe you were given the option to downlevel your character vs actually forcing you to do it. And then make it auto downlevel during a dynamic event or world boss type thing so you don't gimp anyone else. I dunno, something like that.

[Artorias]

i'd like it better if maybe you were given the option to downlevel your character vs actually forcing you to do it. And then make it auto downlevel during a dynamic event or world boss type thing so you don't gimp anyone else. I dunno, something like that.

So you want the option to be max level in lower level zones, as long as it doesn't mess with other people's experience? Why? That's like playing Diablo 3 and going back to normal mode at max level just to insta-kill everything with your aura. It's entertaining for like five minutes, and then you to back to Inferno.

[Powell]

there is no more competition in pve...

play ANY other mmo and there would be competition in pve...

that to me, is quite genre re-defining...and MUCH welcome!

pve is now about co-operation, thank you anet!!

I like competition, some healthy competition always makes you improve.
And seeing as any competitive thing in PvE (wow for example) consists of 10 to 25 people working together to achieve their goal, such as killing a boss, is making me very confused about your statement of co-operation in competitive PvE being non-existent.

There will be competition with other players, even in GuildWars, its the nature of people, not the game.

[carnifex2005]

I like competition, some healthy competition always makes you improve.
And seeing as any competitive thing in PvE (wow for example) consists of 10 to 25 people working together to achieve their goal, such as killing a boss, is making me very confused about your statement of co-operation in competitive PvE being non-existent.

There will be competition with other players, even in GuildWars, its the nature of people, not the game.

He is talking about people fighting over nodes, kills, items for quests, etc... There is none of that in GW2. Everyone can just help everyone with no fear of losing out on something while leveling throughout the world.

[DrakeWurrum]

There's not even competition between different groups of people in GW2. There isn't anything in GW2 PvE that can be seen as "exclusive" or belonging only to some hardcore elite. Maybe legendary weapons, but only because of how many skill points it takes to get them.

[fangless]

re: OP

The devs easily marked a lot of their interviews with "well, in that OTHER game, you used to do X, Y, and Z. in our game, it's Sooooo much better".

Every thread on this forum where people defended the game to nay sayers were claiming that this was going to re-invent the wheel. If they deny it, they're lying to themselves and trying hard not to be wrong.

[Godsmack241]

Which are identical to warhammer public quests just more common and accessible. I do agree that people calling Guild Wars 2 mmo revolution/second coming/best game EVAR are overly dramatic and exaggerating fanboys.

I had no interest in GW2, at all! I didn't read up on it, didn't participate in the beta, nothing. Finally the early access launch hit, and I heard people saying it was good. Watched a few videos, and decided to buy the game, give it a chance.

I'm one of those people who does think it revolutionary, and I am no fan boy. The way the skills are set up (especially Engineer, those kits man... wow), how easy it is to slip into a DE, or leave one without much penalty! The things arenaNet has put in the game to get you to explore have been great, and I've never explored so much in an mmo. The game has made me rethink picking up MoP (primarily due to scheduling issues not allowing me to raid this semester).

It is a really good game, and while it may be using mechanics other games have introduced, it puts them together in such a way and so polished that it is redefining. ToR was no where near as good or as polished as this at launch, nor was Rift, Aion, Terra, FF XIV, STO, EVE, EQ... like, I'm sorry, but for only the cost of admission and no monthly fee, this game has changed the way I look at and play MMO's, and I've been playing 'em since the mid 90's!

[DrakeWurrum]

Which are identical to warhammer public quests just more common and accessible.

JUST, he says, like that's an easy and common thing for developers to do in regards to their main questing model.

[tibben]

I don't know about redefining a genre. But I think they took some of the best aspects from other MMOs, put their little twist on it and made a game that is fun to play. I haven't had this much fun leveling in any MMO...ever. The dungeons are challenging and require some player skill and thought. WvW makes me happy. Overall I just enjoy the game.

[Artorias]

MMOs.

If it requires skill, people with no skill will cry.
If it doesn't require skill, people with skill will cry.

If this game ends up getting some kind of high end system (I hate to say raids, but whatever) to keep the hardcore players happy, and then keeps everything else the same as it is right now (although probably making current dungeons easier), it would be perfect. Everyone would be happy, and everyone could do what they want.

ANet has already stated many times they do not want the game to start at 80. This causes players to rush to max level and miss out on the best content of all, the leveling experience. Is there a lot to do at 80 right now? Yes. Will they add something different at 80 eventually? Probably. Only time will tell. Just have fun with it.