any point to totemic recall now?

[s810]

considering how short our totems are now there seems absolutely no point once it is up to destroy it for whatever reason as it doesn't reset the cool down either, totemic projection more or less solved the problem of recalling and reapplying totems if I had to move out of range for some reason.

[Raugnaut]

I believe that its useful with some certain totems, with the talent that shortens the CD relative to the time it was destroyed when out. I remember that, for instance, using SST, with the shortened CD talent, just to level everyones HP off, then instantly recalling it gives SST a very short CD, around 30 seconds.

While it isn't very useful if you don't have that talent, its pretty useful otherwise.

[Alixie]

My dummy totems accidentally pulled a pack of mobs in a heroic once. Now I have recall on my bars.

[Vanadium]

Taking Glyph of TR makes totems cost a net zero mana if you remember to pull them. It's mostly helpful as resto with HST/fire totems.

[Satori]

It's pretty useful if you take the talent that reduces the CD and maybe with the glyph, as mentioned above. A lot of times you just need the initial effect of the totem, for instance the root from Earthgrab, the fear break from Tremor, the hp even out from Spirit Link, the first big shield from Stonebulwark, etc, so in these cases it makes sense to drop the totem and immediately recall it.

[amalgamas]

don't know about you but I don't like pulling trash that I didn't mean to.

[Deleted]

HTT cost 8% basemana, FireEle 26%, Searing Totem 5%, Spirit Link 11%,... so it makes sense to use the glyp and recall at the last tick if you want to maximize your mana.

Only problem is that you may recall more totems than you want to. If I place HST + Spirit Link, I don't want to recall HST after 5s.

[Deleted]

There's loads of point to it - if you take the glyph, that is. As other people above me has already pointed out, you can save a tremendous amount of mana by recalling your totem(s) at the last tick, something that is going to be crucial in the first tier of MoP where mana is going to be very tight.

[Blitond]

considering how short our totems are now there seems absolutely no point once it is up to destroy it for whatever reason as it doesn't reset the cool down either, totemic projection more or less solved the problem of recalling and reapplying totems if I had to move out of range for some reason.

For PvE: Probably little benefit (recalling totems so they don't aggro something is the only thing I can think of).

For PvP: YES!!! Totemic Restoration is Fing AMAZING. ~50 cooldown reduction on Earthgrab (if you pick this talent) and tremor is incredible. You do have to pick that talent, but I can't see any serious PvPer not picking TR as it's borderline OP.

[Northy]

I use Recall all the time in PvP. Cuts my totem cooldowns in half due to Totemic Restoration. Drop Earthbind for the grab -- Recall -- Boom 15 secs off the cd. I seem to be the only Elemental Shaman I see making use of this talent. My totem cooldowns are all soooo short now.

[Deleted]

I doubt it will see much use in PvE. For majority of shamans, micromanaging totems to pull them at the last tick will worsen their performance because it will detract from really important stuff like not standing in fire or getting those crucial heals out. There's also danger of pulling them too early clipping too many ticks.
It just isn't practical nor fun to concern ourselves with that.

[Tiberria]

I doubt it will see much use in PvE. For majority of shamans, micromanaging totems to pull them at the last tick will worsen their performance because it will detract from really important stuff like not standing in fire or getting those crucial heals out. There's also danger of pulling them too early clipping too many ticks.
It just isn't practical nor fun to concern ourselves with that.

It's really not that difficult to set up a WeakAura or other spell duration timer to monitor how long is left on HST. With Totemic Recall glyphed, it's a significant amount of mana. This is worth up to 2300 mp5 at level 90, which is more mana than you would get from a regen cooldown. It's not a trivial thing, and there is significant gains to be had by upping the skill cap. HST is so significant in terms of HPS and HPM that it should always be dropped on cooldown (unless doing so would clip Mana Tide and/or Healing Tide).

Obviously, you won't get maximum returns. Sometimes, you can not use a GCD on Totemic Recall, because you need to cast something else, and sometimes you will miss the duration, and that's fine, but there probably is not another available glyph for Resto with as much output increasing potential.

If you don't have Totemic Recall glyphed, there is no real point in using it at all. If you want to pull up totems to get use out of Totemic Restoration, you are better off right click cancelling them (or creating a macro to do so), because cancelling them doesn't use a GCD and Totemic Recall does.

[Winterstrife]

I'd like not to be the reason I pulled a pack of mobs by accident that can potential cause a wipe when attempting challenge mode with my guild.

[s810]

I'd like not to be the reason I pulled a pack of mobs by accident that can potential cause a wipe when attempting challenge mode with my guild.

and how would you even do that, do you have a habit of putting down searing totem as resto.

Taking Glyph of TR makes totems cost a net zero mana if you remember to pull them. It's mostly helpful as resto with HST/fire totems

and the mana you "saved" by not letting it go till it's last tick or 2 would then have to be spent on healing.

you wouldn't drop HST when everyone's 90% anyway so if people are all around 50% when you drop it they would use every tick.

[Vanadium]

Um... HST should be kept on cooldown lol. I think you're thinking of HTT.

[Hursey]

I doubt it will see much use in PvE. For majority of shamans, micromanaging totems to pull them at the last tick will worsen their performance because it will detract from really important stuff like not standing in fire or getting those crucial heals out. There's also danger of pulling them too early clipping too many ticks.
It just isn't practical nor fun to concern ourselves with that.

This I agree with. I don't see it having very little use in PvE. With all the other utility/Cooldowns shaman have to manage, I don't see the micro managing totems is going to have any positive effect, espically when you consider the already short duration of some of out totems. An yeah, Like Tibbee says we can set up auras and/or times but it's still a fair chunk extra effort for minimal return in my opinion anyway.

If you don't have Totemic Recall glyphed, there is no real point in using it at all. If you want to pull up totems to get use out of Totemic Restoration, you are better off right click cancelling them (or creating a macro to do so), because cancelling them doesn't use a GCD and Totemic Recall does.

A touch off topic, but could you give an example of these macros to cancel totems please

[Blitond]

This I agree with. I don't see it having very little use in PvE. With all the other utility/Cooldowns shaman have to manage, I don't see the micro managing totems is going to have any positive effect, espically when you consider the already short duration of some of out totems. An yeah, Like Tibbee says we can set up auras and/or times but it's still a fair chunk extra effort for minimal return in my opinion anyway.

None of the T3 talents are that attractive for PvE tbh. Totemic projection has some uses for resto and SLT. It also has potential with magma and ele. I see it as totemic projection kinda wins by default in a PvE regard mainly because the other 2 are so bad for PvE.

OT: For CoTE, I think they should up the cooldown to ~10 minutes and include all totems (think that's what it used to be anyways). I just can't think of a single case where I would ever use it over the other 2 talents.

[Deleted]

[...]This is worth up to 2300 mp5 at level 90[...]

How did you arrive at that number? HST costs 4600 mana and can be recalled once every 30 seconds at best. That adds up to 767 mp5. Realistically, you're looking at about 200-300 mp5. Worth the GCDs if you can do it perfectly? Debatable. And most of us aren't perfect.

[kaikoraimi]

Glyph of Aggro Sticks, er, Totemic Encirclement, is mechanically both a blessing and a curse in PvE. I've used the dummy totems to intentionally pull respawns in Tol Barad dailies (and also accidentally pull a swarm or twelve of respawns). I've noticed that when I zap one mob of a group that pulls together, if I don't touch the rest of the group, a couple of them will get close and decide the decorative totems need to die before I do. I'd guess this is an aspect of the proximity aggro function mobs have, and not some totem-specific hatred.

[Tiberria]

How did you arrive at that number? HST costs 4600 mana and can be recalled once every 30 seconds at best. That adds up to 767 mp5. Realistically, you're looking at about 200-300 mp5. Worth the GCDs if you can do it perfectly? Debatable. And most of us aren't perfect.

At level 90, we have a 300k mana pool, and all mana costs and regen values are tripled.

You won't get close to the 2300 mp5, but it's not going to only be 1/4 of it either if you are paying any kind of attention. To give you an idea of how powerful it is, Innervate used on CD is 1667 mp5 at level 90. Divine Plea used on CD is 1500 mp5. Using the TR glyph effectively gives you the potential to get more mana back than Druids/Paladins get from their personal regen cooldowns.