Apparently I'm missing something...

[MKing]

So now games punish you for not having all your friends on-line. I prefer to have them IRL I do understand what you mean, obviously, but that's exactly my point. Most PUGs won't come out of there without at least a few wipes.

I play with my real life friends i don't even know how pugs do bad on storymode though, you don't need to be that coordinated.

[Sylvanie]

Nothing to do with "not having friends" and more to do with, "Oh, so we were right back in beta, some compositions really DO make life way, way easier."

It's more that certain types of specs make life way, way easier. But I think part of the problem is that a lot of players just have been sticking to what they felt what was tried and true rather than trying to leverage the GW2 mechanics (for example, a thief doing area blind/weakness debuffs is nothing to sneeze at when it comes to damage mitigation).

The "we want a guardian" problem is part rational, part irrational (and one class does not a group composition make). Rationally, guardians have the unique benefit of providing passive rather than active defenses to the group (aegis and regeneration in particular). That is a bit at odds with most other classes, whose group support/defenses are active. And passive defenses allow a bit more sloppiness. Also, guardians (by virtue of their name alone) are more likely to attract players who enjoy a support-oriented playstyle, something to consider when forming a PUG, where you don't want to end up with a bunch of pew-pew types only.

But there's also a strong irrational component in it, which is that a lot of players kind of assume from the fact that guardians have heals means that they're dedicated healers in the WoW sense.

[Vespian]

It's more that certain types of specs make life way, way easier. But I think part of the problem is that a lot of players just have been sticking to what they felt what was tried and true rather than trying to leverage the GW2 mechanics (for example, a thief doing area blind/weakness debuffs is nothing to sneeze at when it comes to damage mitigation).

The "we want a guardian" problem is part rational, part irrational (and one class does not a group composition make). Rationally, guardians have the unique benefit of providing passive rather than active defenses to the group (aegis and regeneration in particular). That is a bit at odds with most other classes, whose group support/defenses are active. And passive defenses allow a bit more sloppiness. Also, guardians (by virtue of their name alone) are more likely to attract players who enjoy a support-oriented playstyle, something to consider when forming a PUG, where you don't want to end up with a bunch of pew-pew types only.

But there's also a strong irrational component in it, which is that a lot of players kind of assume from the fact that guardians have heals means that they're dedicated healers in the WoW sense.

You take a few shortcuts, example; we never mentioned we personally see Guardians as healers, but in general I agree with your post. The tried tactics don't work in the GW2 world, so using them in a dungeon would make even less sense. That part is the only part I definitely disagree with. Once more, the people that complain are not 12 year olds that can't understand a change in gameplay. You're facing people that are between 20 and 30, who have a long history of gaming, from WoW to Dark Souls. We're not easily misguided by new "mechanics" and that's also the reason why I can't agree with the current setup of dungeons. The difficulty is not in the mechanics, but in the shear reliance on a combination of certain classes, certain boons and certain specs, in combination with, a very heavy reliance on the downed mechanic, which in itself is not a bad thing, but obsessively abused to function as a core element.

And to be clear, I don't want dungeons to be a walk in the park either. I just want it to be hard technically, instead of silly attempts at dodging spells you can't see until it's too late.

[nightshark]

If you feel there is too much CC maybe avoid large crowds in sPvP. Whenever I see a large group forming on a point I realize there is probably another point to capture with MAYBE one enemy.

Yeah this is true, if there is a massive battle going on somewhere that means that most the opposing team is tied up. But there are 3 nodes to be capped/defended. Sometimes I'll just waltz into a node and cap it with no resistance. Most the time I can at least neutralise it before an enemy turns up, then battle them until teammates arrive or I get ganked.

[micklavier]

What I'd really like to have seen is a removal of all the PvE elements (POI's, Vistas, mobs, events, etc) and instead add more small-group type objectives. For example, a lower-tier fortification that's more like a camp without walls or a door - so it doesn't require siege to assault - but with a palisade or something around it to make it more defensible.

I LOVE the fact that there are POI's, Vistas, mobs, and events in WvW. It makes the whole area feel less instanced and more like a second world where you can PvP if you want. My ranger has a really good time separating from the pack and picking off enemies one by one all while hiding in the bushes. I do this for fun, though, and not for experience. When I want to level I'll travel with the zergpack and such.

I'm on US-Stormbluff Isle and we are almost always topping charts. Maybe switch worlds? I'm having a blast there.

[Fiddlesnarf]

Yeah but then people deserve to fail then for not having friends.

I play with my real life friends i don't even know how pugs do bad on storymode though, you don't need to be that coordinated.

Do you actually read what you type?

[micklavier]

You claim you are useless? Go pick off people 1v1. You are keeping the numbers on the opposing side down AND avoiding the zerg.

I see the WvW as an open canvas. Do whatever you want.

Want to join the zerg? Go towards the orange swords on the map.
Want to do something smaller but still contribute? Ask in /map to get a small 5 person party together, meet somewhere, and start taking smaller areas.
Want to do something even smaller and still contribute? (Best for Rangers, Thieves, and Ranged classes) Go hide off the path and pick players off one by one.

[Liquephyre]

Are you aware that there's a whole bunch ..of people.. like you, that post only to insult and are not getting removed as quickly as I personally would? Does it make you happy that I have to report each and every one of you? It's not that I'm being a hypocrite or anything, I absolutely occasionally insult people, but I also tend to respond in detail to the issue at hand and I do not post with the intention to insult. And you do.

Okay, I see your point. Maybe it was a bit harsh. Here's a quote which I believe summarizes how I feel about this topic..

It's only reasonable to surrender if you're unable to adjust your strategy, build or tactics.

[Reucht]

Vespian,

you're just as bad a troll as the other guys on the other side of the spectrum. If you would have researched as much about GW2 as you would about WoW, then you wouldn't be crying like a little emo girl. Some pointers so you might reach the end of the dungeon without "GY zerging":

- You're in a group, if the other 4 people suck, you're gonna fail as a group. Communication is key.
- Coordination on AoE condition removal. And pick your battles, don't remove a 3sec cripple.
- Changing position coordinated with your party since proximity has influence on aggro.
- Don't dodge when you have Vigor, dodge when you need to.
- Have some decent stats in your gear like toughness/vitality/boon duration/ ...
- Use utility slot skills for the group, not for your personal epeen.
- Kite.
- Kill ranged first, kite melee, kill melee.
- Pillars/statues/whatever block ranged attacks ("3 ranger pull makes me wanna kill small animals" boohoo, use the brain...)
- Don't go melee unless you have something useful to do there. (being a warrior does NOT qualify, dish out some serious damage and get the fuck out)
- Don't revive team members in front of the boss's face. Also, don't go downed in front of the boss's face.
- ...

I can continue, but you catch my drift. I'm sure your reply will be "already did those things", but really, we both know you didn't or you wouldn't be as bad as you say you are.

And if we're still talking about AC, use the frikking boulders.

This is a friendly place, so please don't insult other posters. Infracted. -Edge

[Deleted]

Vespian has a point. Two dodges aren't enough in some explo. dungeons.

A good idea would be to have endurance refunded, in all aspects of the game, if a successful dodge (read: evaded everything) occurred. Gives a higher skill cap in PvP (those who dodge more successfully will be more successful) and stops the whining in PvE.

[Reucht]

Vespian has a point. Two dodges aren't enough in some explo. dungeons.

A good idea would be to have endurance refunded, in all aspects of the game, if a successful dodge (read: evaded everything) occurred. Gives a higher skill cap in PvP (those who dodge more successfully will be more successful) and stops the whining in PvE.

It's NOT needed, you don't have to dodge every arrow. Use it on the big-ass, flaming arrow with laserbeams.

"I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but what if we just took the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

[Deleted]

Dodge evades for roughly 3 seconds.

Some channeled skills in explo. dungeons last 8-10 seconds.

Some classes don't have immunity perks like Endure Pain.

[Reucht]

Dodge evades for roughly 3 seconds.

Some channeled skills in explo. dungeons last 8-10 seconds.

Some classes don't have immunity perks like Endure Pain.

Hide.

Enough pillars/statues/rocks/stairs/ .... around.

[Deleted]

Hide.

Enough pillars/statues/rocks/stairs/ .... around.

Eye of Zhaitain's eye beam can go through LoS as can pretty much every channeled skill because the ultimate "hit" is an AoE style hit to punish people who res fallen party members.

[Reucht]

Eye of Zhaitain's eye beam can go through LoS.

Go downed behind a pillar and revive.

Maybe I should play your character?

No need to be rude. -Edge

[Deleted]

Go downed behind a pillar and revive.

Maybe I should play your character?

You decided to ignore the rest of the sentence which pretty much makes this suggestion null and void? Okay.

[Strah]

Go downed

Good advice.

[Crashdummy]

That pull is so easy to dodge and detect, we had only 1 person that kept getting hit by it so we only revived him 3 times then kicked him and finished it.

Which is irrelevant since i was giving an example of a one shot mechanic.

There could also be other factors, the graphic indication of the pull (the only one since there is no indication by sound) can be easily lost in the battle, colorblinded people might have a problem seeing it, or many other factors can happen.

The point is, there are one shot mechanics in GW2 where you end dead, not downed.

---------- Post added 2012-09-12 at 07:49 AM ----------

How much range the hook has ?
Have u tried standing behind 1 player , in order to absorve all the hooks with his body ? And ress his later ?:P
Or he could any cd to get immune to damage , in order to avoid the whirldwind

Unlimited range as far as i know, using a body to cover you is not the solution, the solution is going LOS or using the dodge ability just before he does the pull, which he indicates by rising his hand about a second and a little shine in his weapon.

Again, the point was to give an example of a one shot mechanic.

CDs wont save you, the damage is just impossible to absorb, it must be avoided.

[Reucht]

You decided to ignore the rest of the sentence which pretty much makes this suggestion null and void? Okay.

You edited your post afterwards and I was driving home in the meantime, but okay. Anyway, for all your problems there is a simple solution if you want to think.

The downed player can TP out of AoE, you can insta-rez from a distance, you can dodge the channel in the first place, etc.

[Crashdummy]

Yeah but then people deserve to fail then for not having friends.

If this is intended then its bad design. You cant be serious with this phrase.

So its OK to fail because you dont have enough friends to get the best etup for dungeons, and here i was thinking GW2 was trying to get away from requiring specific setups...