600 Blacksmithing is a JOKE

[Synstir]

And now tell us what you can make with blacksmithing, like you did with the others.
Alchemist depends on mining (trillium bars) to make living steel.

And what will an alchemist do with living steel?

[Deleted]

And what will an alchemist do with living steel?

Sell it and cash in!

[Cosmic Janitor]

People don't mention it because Living Steel ism\t required in Alchemy anywhere. No alchemy recipe requires Living Steel or any ore for it's crafts.

Also people forget that Living Steel is a cooldown craft, with cd being 1 day. You don't simply go and get mats for your prof from fellow alchemist, at the best you can get one. It might be ok for some crafts, but not for such things as belt buckles and weapon chains.

Oh, and alchemists can transmute ghost iron ore into trillium bars too (without cd), it takes faster to get trillium this way than by mining.

People who speak in defense of this stupid Living Steel idea, what would you say if in order to make flask you would need daily cd from tailors on top with herbs? Blacksmith is exactly in such situation at this moment.

Thats the perfect idea! From now on Alchemists need one Imperial Silk (for the label on the flask) per .. hmm .. lets say 5 Flasks.
Seriously though, the profit from making belt buckles stays mostly with the alchemist and not the blacksmith. People at first were very reluctant to buy belt buckles on my server because they were expansive as hell and no one wanted to invest that much money for a lame extra socket. Just recently prices seem to drop though, until some rich bastard buys everything and puts it up for twice the price. Thats coming from an Alchemist/Blacksmith (raider, hence 2 primary professions) btw. That completly excludes guilds btw, because everyone with half a brain would just buy a living steel of the AH and bring it to a Blacksmith, since the limiting factor is the alchemist CD not that blacksmith skill.

[Deleted]

People who speak in defense of this stupid Living Steel idea, what would you say if in order to make flask you would need daily cd from tailors on top with herbs? Blacksmith is exactly in such situation at this moment.

Apples and oranges. How many items, that uses living steel, you need throughout one tier? And then compare that number to the amount of flasks you need throughout one tier.

[Pugbot]

Can you even read?
Alt char with alchemy is NOT THE SOLUTION

Tailors, Leatherworkers can gather all thier mats and make their own crafting gear including epic quality.
Blacksmithers can't make living steel which is required by everything.
JC's can mine nodes = free mats to cut gems(no metas but can make alot of profit from gems)
Alch can gather herbs = free mats
and so on.

Balance? I don't see it.

---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 04:03 PM ----------



That's another problem.
Low pop
15% alliance 85% Horde
I'm from Alliance...AH is completly dead.

But still, this is a proffession issue.

I think you're looking at this from a very narrow field of view. I am going to assume you don't even have another profession and have never had another profession.

Professions always rely on another one or more to maximize profit and ability.

I don't mean to be hateful, but judging by your generous use of caps lock and bold print you are upset. You are upset because you had an idea of how the profession should be, and its nothing like it.
I don't see the need to rebalance anything.

[Jtbrig7390]

I think you're looking at this from a very narrow field of view. I am going to assume you don't even have another profession and have never had another profession.

Professions always rely on another one or more to maximize profit and ability.

I don't mean to be hateful, but judging by your generous use of caps lock and bold print you are upset. You are upset because you had an idea of how the profession should be, and its nothing like it.
I don't see the need to rebalance anything.

Why do people not get.
Every Crafting Profession had a Gather profession that helped it.
Like Mining/Black Smithing
Jew/Mining
Leatherworker/Skinning.
tailor/enchant


But now for blacksmithing its Blacksmithing/Mining/alchemy

He is mad because Blacksmithing now relays on another crafting profession and a gather profession

Alchemy has no use for living steel only to make money off it when blacksmiths need it for belt buckels and all.

I have to agree with the OP this is BS and should be changed no other crafting profession relays on another for something as major as blacksmiths do for living steel from alchemy.


Now in before the true gold BS. True gold was used to make gear i am ok with that what i am not ok is is the extra sockets from BS now relay on us having alchemy.

Every other Crafting Profession gets there little extra bonus without the help from another crafting profession and now blacksmiths need alchemy to get theres and thats BS.

Not everyone levels a alt and max's each profession and all blacksmiths want is there bonus for using it aka the extra sockets. hell even jewelcrafting get there extra socket in rings and enchanters get there ring enchants


It should always be Gather Profession/Crafting Profession Not Gather Profession/Crafting Profession/Crafting Profession.

[Voidgazer]

Every Crafting Profession had a Gather profession that helped it.
Like Mining/Black Smithing
Jew/Mining
Leatherworker/Skinning.
tailor/enchant


But now for blacksmithing its Blacksmithing/Mining/alchemy

Why do people not get.

Alchemy needs Herbalism to sustain itself. Now, think for a moment... WHERE DOES THE METAL COME FROM? Where do you think these greedy bastards alchemists get the ingridients needed for transmutation?

[Jtbrig7390]

Why do people not get.

Alchemy needs Herbalism to sustain itself. Now, think for a moment... WHERE DOES THE METAL COME FROM? Where do you think these greedy bastards alchemists get the ingridients needed for transmutation?

Alchemy-Crafting Profession
Herbalism-Gather Profession.....

Why do people not get that. personally i think people just want to bitch without reading everything. said.
Blacksmithing now needs

Mining-Gather Profession
Alchemy-Crafting Profession
and blacksmithing is a Crafting Profession.

[Voidgazer]

Okay let me explains this one more time. Slowly, just so that you might udnerstand.

OP is whining about a crafting profession (Blacksmithing) requiring ingridients from another, non-adjacent to it (in this case Minig), profession (Alchemy).

But what he (and many other people) conviniently fail to notice is that Alchemy, a crafting profession, also requires ingridients from another, non-adjacent to it (in this case Herbalism), profession (Mining).

See? That's not that hard to understand. But, I guess, in order to eliminate any further unnecessary questions, I'll repeat myself one more time.

IN ORDER TO MAKE A LIVING STEEL BAR, AN ALCHEMIST NEEDS METALS (TRILLIUM OR GHOST IRON). AND ASSUMING ALCHEMIST'S SECOND PROFESSION IS HERBALISM, HE HAS TO BUY SAID METALS AT THE AUCTION HOUSE OR LEVEL UP AN ALT WITH MINING PROFESSION.

[Allyrion]

Okay let me explains this one more time. Slowly, just so that you might udnerstand.

OP is whining about a crafting profession (Blacksmithing) requiring ingridients from another, non-adjacent to it (in this case Minig), profession (Alchemy).

But what he (and many other people) conviniently fail to notice is that Alchemy, a crafting profession, also requires ingridients from another, non-adjacent to it (in this case Herbalism), profession (Mining).

See? That's not that hard to understand. But, I guess, in order to eliminate any further unnecessary questions, I'll repeat myself one more time.

IN ORDER TO MAKE A LIVING STEEL BAR, AN ALCHEMIST NEEDS METALS (TRILLIUM OR GHOST IRON). AND ASSUMING ALCHEMIST'S SECOND PROFESSION IS HERBALISM, HE HAS TO BUY SAID METALS AT THE AUCTION HOUSE OR LEVEL UP AN ALT WITH MINING PROFESSION.

You're right, of course, but there is still some validity to the OP. Alchemy may need a third profession (mining) for transmutation, but transmutation is optional. That part of alchemy really stands alone, while blacksmithing relies on alchemy as its third profession to make epics and belt buckles.

The main issue here is the imbalance when compared to other gear-related professions, i.e. tailoring and leatherworking. Blacksmiths rely on AH, an alchemist friend or an alt to get their living steel while the other two can farm if they choose to. The imbalance is compounded by the fact that living steel has a 1 day cooldown, which drives the blacksmith to the AH. This can be really bad depending on the server for obvious reasons like no supply or unfair prices.

Personally, I believe this adds a bit of depth to the profession. It is unfair though. I would rather see tailoring and leatherworking share that sort of interconnectivity with other professions as well. I think the challenge of spacing out time or finding people of certain professions and working with them is an interesting design, especially for gear-professions which are pretty boring. I think professions should have relationships with one another, at least to the extent of connecting two crafting professions (one gear related to one not gear related).

[Deleted]

Blacksmithing is however the best PvP profession and in some cases the very best PvE profession as well. Personally I think that's way better than earning 10-15k gold profit over an expansion (because honestly very few people bother earning more than that).

[Voidgazer]

but transmutation is optional.

Buckles and crafted epics are in no way mandatory either.

Unless you really are required to use steel to level up the profession I don't see a problem here.

Personally, I believe this adds a bit of depth to the profession. It is unfair though. I would rather see tailoring and leatherworking share that sort of interconnectivity with other professions as well. I think the challenge of spacing out time or finding people of certain professions and working with them is an interesting design, especially for gear-professions which are pretty boring. I think professions should have relationships with one another, at least to the extent of connecting two crafting professions (one gear related to one not gear related).

As I said before, I'd actually like to see more interaction between professions too. Instead of stacking professions with most self benefits for min-maxing stats, this would encourage people at least in the same guild, to have more diversity in professions. And it simply doesn't suit the role of a crafter to sit quietly in his corner while crafting things all by himself out of thin air and polluting the server economy. You don't make more money by simply making gold, it would only devaluate it. Wealth is relative, not absolute, there's nothing to fear in spending some money, they'll always return to you, if you make the right investments.

[Allyrion]

Buckles and crafted epics are in no way mandatory either.

Unless you really are required to use steel to level up the profession I don't see a problem here.

I agree with you on the buckle, but not the epics. Well, let me qualify - of course crafted epics aren't mandatory. However, it can't be denied that blacksmithing is centered around making armor and epic armor is the pinnacle of that. I understand that gear is transient and also that most people pick professions for their perks rather the gear itself, but the armor is the center of the design.

For example, transmutation is optional for alchemy because it uses bars (which you don't need for anything else) to make different types of bars (which you don't use either). Transmutation is for money or to help others. On the other hand, elixirs (flasks and potions included) are the center of the alchemy design. Transmutation turns mats into other mats, makes no product and you don't use the mats on either end anyway. That is optional.

Again, the issue here is more about the balance between the other two gear profs. LW can make fur lining for pants with only skinning and can make epics without any other prof. Similarly, tailoring can make epics without other professions too.

The professions have never been completely balanced though. Tailoring has always been allowed to supply itself letting, letting you pick up enchanting which is also self sufficient. And the crafted epics thing is not new at all, but the belt buckle is.

I think they really need to make the gear professions more interesting. At least LW and blacksmithing, since tailoring can be coupled with enchanting.

[Kujako]

It should also be noted that there is no cool-down on the living steel transmutation so long as you are willing to spend three spirt of harmony.

[Jtbrig7390]

-snip-[/B]

Okay let me explain this one more time. Slowly, just so that you might understand.

the bonus to being a blacksmith was the str+ and to be able to socket our gear and make belt buckels. now since we need alchemy to do that we can't and we lose our bonus.

people who have alchemy would be pissed if they couldn't make there trinkets beecause they would need blacksmithing/enchanting/tailoring/leatherworking ect....

i shouldn't have to chuck out 1k+ for something i should be able to make for free already like i have been able to since wrath. all i had to do before is farm a few mats then bam i got it. now i go to pay someone to give me something that i should be able to make already.

alchemy dose not need living steel in anyway its there to make them money and thats bs.

Also those sockets is a must for those of us who want the max amount out of our toons.

[Kujako]

now since we need alchemy to do that we can't and we lose our bonus.

You are incapable of interacting with other players? I dont think that's a Blacksmithing issue.

people who have alchemy would be pissed if they couldn't make there trinkets beecause they would need blacksmithing/enchanting/tailoring/leatherworking ect....

You mean the one trinket we get and then stick in the bank? I dont think we would care.

[Arahir]

If I have picked 2 paired professions on one toon, then I should not require another crafting profession to provide the cooldown needed to craft my epics. Minor ingredients, sure. A bolt of windwool, or something like that. LW and Tailor also create their own mats for the epics they create, but BS (and Eng) is reliant on Alchemist. Living Steel should be BS cooldown. Give the alchemist something used for vanity items instead. Or else change the mat requirements of plate craftable epics and the belt buckle.

IF a LW needed imperial silk to craft his leg enchants,and a Tailor needed Magnificent Hides to craft theirs, then it would be fair. I believe those are the only leg enchants, and I believe the belt buckle is the only belt enchant (not positive on that tho). The only thing a miner brings to the table is the over plentiful Ghost Iron, as the alchemist can create Trillium with no cooldown using this mat.

[Odina]

How is being "dependent" of alchemy any different than being dependent of mining, skinning or herbalism?

The main point that was missed in the OP is that BS is first dependant on a gathering proff Mining and also after you mine you are then dependant on a 2nd proff alch to be able to make most of BS profitable items.

Thus unlike the other proffs where you can pair up to one dependant gathering proff to make your professions items for BS we are dependant on 2 proffs one gathering and the other alch!

I agree I was quite dissheartened when I noticed I had to rely on alchs to make the buckle as I'm a BS, Minner and wish I could make buckles through the proper crafting / gathering combination on BS mining!

Immagine an Alch/ Herbalist needing a "mettal stopper" to make flasks. Now lets say that the stopper is created by BS and the stopper had a 1 day CD on it.

This is what happened to buckles this expac!

[Jtbrig7390]

The main point that was missed in the OP is that BS is first dependant on a gathering proff Mining and also after you mine you are then dependant on a 2nd proff alch to be able to make most of BS profitable items.

Thus unlike the other proffs where you can pair up to one dependant gathering proff to make your professions items for BS we are dependant on 2 proffs one gathering and the other alch!

I agree I was quite dissheartened when I noticed I had to rely on alchs to make the buckle as I'm a BS, Minner and wish I could make buckles through the proper crafting / gathering combination on BS mining!

Immagine an Alch/ Herbalist needing a "mettal stopper" to make flasks. Now lets say that the stopper is created by BS and the stopper had a 1 day CD on it.

This is what happened to buckles this expac!

Couldn't agree with you more and sadly lots don't see it this way.

[Beefkow]

Well, BS is the reason you see all of those samurais out in the battle field, and quite frankly i think that the glove and bracer socket bonus are pretty sick, give my pvp warrior 640 additional pvp power.