Solution to dungeon Quitting & Ninjas.

[Deleted]

Rather than "losing" items I think it'd be a more elegant solution to hold items in a bank that are only rolled on at the very end of the dungeon. The idea of "taking it away" seems too punitive, but just not getting to roll because you left before rolls is more of a "oh well I had to leave. got some jp."

I wouldn't like that either. I think it's ok the way it is. People sometimes leave, but it's also much easier to get new people. DPS leaves, it practically doesn't matter, you get a new one right away. And in exchange for having a couple of people leave every now and then, you also don't have to stick around for the whole dungeon. Seems fair.

And sometimes people just have to leave because something happens. What if someone disconnects and you kick him? Would suck to not get your loot then.

[Deleted]

I played in Classic. I played in BC. I did this in Classic. I did this in BC. I never had a bad rep, either. Most people really liked running with me - due to how fast I tend to play.

You're just..wrong.

Let me open up with I don't take gear from people if they legitimately need it. If I see a healer with a 380 weapon, I'm not snagging the 463 away. I'm perfectly in my right to do so, but I honestly don't plan to heal much. I'd much rather a dps steal tanking items than try to tank with ilvl 435. Same with healers.

Now, with that out of the way, If I have to quit, you don't know the reason. I might be sick, I might have an irl emergency, Maybe it's raid time. Punishing people for that is kind of an asshole thing. If you really want to know - talk to them after they leave, Most of the time that I've seen(from people on my server) It's something work related. Occasionally they just didn't want to finish it - and that's fine to.

I just feel more and more people as of late are forgetting this is a game. It's intended to have fun. Yes, losing a piece of gear sucks - but it's still getting used 99% of the time. It's very VERY rare that someone steals an item just to DE it. Now, those are the people I have a problem with.

You obviously wouldn't make a very useful game designer, considering how you have zero ability to think around issues or change ideas that aren't working into something that does work.

First of all emergencies happen very rarely, and a lost item in a game shouldn't even matter when they do. Second, plan your time better if you suddenly have to go to a raid you are fully aware of. Third, the anti-ninja idea I had would cover an area you don't seem to be aware about: where people are actually selfish assholes and snag items they barely need from people who worked hard for them and really need them. Just because you show the decency of passing on what is a huge improvement for another player doesn't mean everyone will. In fact, a lot of people won't. That is why the word ninja is widely used in WoW in the first place.

About vanilla and TBC, you are either lying or hung around with odd people. It's a well-established fact that the community bashed on ninjas and quitters back then.

[TheWindWalker]

Ninjaing: afaik it's not possible in LFR. In LFD: who the hell cares, really?

At this point in the expansion it requires nearly, if not all, slots to be filled with heroic dungeon gear in order to enter LFR. If you're not even able to get into LFR, it's a pretty clear indicator that your ilvl is low for normal mode raiding.

Ask a plate tank who's lost tank gear to Paladins, Death Knights and Warriors in LFD just who cares.

[Sovnade]

First suggestion is stupid as hell. Who cares if they leave after they get their item? They did just as much work as you on the boss to get the chance at it.

The second one is what they should have been doing all along, since it's ridiculous for specs to be able to roll on anything but what their spec needs.

Just want to say that I disagree with this.

As a druid tank, I also want to pick up Balance/Resto gear because I don't want to tank all the time, but I don't have enough gear yet to heal heroics. If I'm not allowed to roll Need on leather caster gear, then I roll at the Greed/Disenchant level, and 80% of the time the gear that I would have legitimately used gets destroyed (druid is also an enchanter so d/e is always chosen by everyone).

If I'm allowed to roll need on leather caster gear, then I get it before others can d/e it. Obviously if there's a healing monk/druid that needs it I'll pass, but that's rare due to how matchmaking tries to group together different armor classes.

[Deleted]

yeah right let blizzard fix the problems that you will always have "unfriendly" people in social games....

[Tziva]

Considering how many posters are against these ideas, I suppose I am simply caught in the collective mindset of the community from 2-3 years back, when people actually cared about being polite and decent to other players, and working together to achieve things.

I'm all for that, I just reeeeaally don't understand why people not staying for a full dungeon run are being impolite, much less a a problem to the degree that those players need punished. Since their replacement is near instantaneous and requires no work at all on the part of the remaining group members, and you usually don't need five people in the first place, it really looks like trying to punish something that just offends you for some emotional reason even though it actually has no negative repercussions on the group.

I can see why a healer needing on a +hit trinket offends people. Although I don't agree with your particular solution, it at least makes sense. It hurts that mage who perhaps queued just for that item that something he will use all the time is getting lost to an offspec that healer might rarely play.

But I really cannot fathom why a group would care if Bob the random warlock leaves after the first boss and you get Frank the other random warlock instead, much less care to the point that they begin crying "TAKE AWAY BOB'S LOOT EVEN FOR THE BOSSES HE PARTICIPATED ON!"

[aim]

Solution #1 sounds as a good plan, the penalty could be discussed for sure. Not sure you should get a reward just because you finnish the dungeon though. It should be mandatory, if you leave (not if you dc i guess) then banned for say 5 hours and indeed remove looted items.

Thats an excellent idea, unless you take into account real life and that sometimes people need to leave for a very valid reason and shouldn't be penalised for that.

[Deleted]

i was pissed off when blizzard brought in a 30 minute penalty for leaving a dungeon. as a healer, i have to put up with an awful lot of fail tanks & grps in general & dont see why i should be penalised for leaving a fail grp

[Deleted]

I'm all for that, I just reeeeaally don't understand why people not staying for a full dungeon run are being impolite, much less a a problem to the degree that those players need punished. Since their replacement is near instantaneous and requires no work at all on the part of the remaining group members, and you usually don't need five people in the first place, it really looks like trying to punish something that just offends you for some emotional reason even though it actually has no negative repercussions on the group.

• It's rude.
• It means waiting for new people, taking everything from a minute to ten or even twenty minutes depending on which role you need to fill and what time of day it is.
• It interrupts play, forces you to adapt to a new player's style, and sometimes occurs during very bad circumstances - such as bosses or mob packs.
• It can cause certain frustration if the new fellow who joins pops in for 1 minute and gets the best loot from the final boss when the rest of the party has been there for 30 minutes. This is subjective and obviously isn't the fault of the new player, but it can cause some frustration that would be avoided if the original party remained intact.
• It makes ninja looting easy, as you can roll on the item and then just leave the group the following second, not having to hear anyone whine at you or face any moral consequences. If you can't see your victim, it's easier to be a villain, as it were.

[Yoshimiko]

You obviously wouldn't make a very useful game designer, considering how you have zero ability to think around issues or change ideas that aren't working into something that does work.

First of all emergencies happen very rarely, and a lost item in a game shouldn't even matter when they do. Second, plan your time better if you suddenly have to go to a raid you are fully aware of. Third, the anti-ninja idea I had would cover an area you don't seem to be aware about: where people are actually selfish assholes and snag items they barely need from people who worked hard for them and really need them. Just because you show the decency of passing on what is a huge improvement for another player doesn't mean everyone will. In fact, a lot of people won't. That is why the word ninja is widely used in WoW in the first place.

About vanilla and TBC, you are either lying or hung around with odd people. It's a well-established fact that the community bashed on ninjas and quitters back then.

Let's start with your first statement.

What's the issue? Players getting gear for specs other than the one they're currently playing? That problem only began to arise because players feel entitled. Hell, I get called a ninja for rolling on gear I need, for my main spec! Yay for people not understanding how monks are supposed to gear up - but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

Emergencies rarely happen? Show proof. If my kid bangs his head on something, or has a scrape or bruise or I get a phone call, I'm sorry but this is more important than a video game. I'm considering pretty much any thing that requires my full attention an 'emergency', in a very very broad sense.

Second: Groups wipe. It happens. I can remember quite a few times spending 3-4 hours in a dungeon that should have taken 15-20 minutes. It happens less today , but it does happen. I've NEVER seen someone rage over someone quitting after 10-15 wipes - but your system would very clearly punish anyone who did this, forcing people to stay in bad groups. It might not be happening right now, but I don't expect all heroics to be as easy as these - and I still see occasional wipes in Shado-pan.

Third - All players in the group worked equally for the boss kill. Why should you get special privileges over me? We're both aiming for the same thing: To gear up our character in the way of our choosing. I'm sorry but in roughly 80-90% of my groups, I'm top dps, top heals, while tanking. I can solo pretty much any heroic except for shado-pan(which I will get down, damnit :< ). If you want to throw the "who did the most work" argument, I'ma say I did. Most non-guild groups I'm in I'm roughly 50-60% of DPS, and 70-90% of heals. Guild groups I run 4 dps, and me tank+healing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMylc2Or1Ic <- This is a Ninja. Most of the people you're complaining about are just people gearing up off specs. I'd hardly call them ninjas.

[potaco]

But I really cannot fathom why a group would care if Bob the random warlock leaves after the first boss and you get Frank the other random warlock instead, much less care to the point that they begin crying "TAKE AWAY BOB'S LOOT EVEN FOR THE BOSSES HE PARTICIPATED ON!"

Even if the group doesn't care, what about that replacement warlock who finds himself in a group right AFTER the boss that he needed loot from?

Or the healer that leaves after a boss right as the tank pulls the next group of mobs, resulting in a wipe?

Are these game-shattering issues? No, of course not. But they do happen fairly frequently and are extremely frustrating. If you can't possibly fathom why someone would care in the slightest, you may want to get your empathy checked

[neccowafer]

If anything, people leaving is irritating because I hate getting 90%-finished dungeons after waiting for a really long time in queue as dps and missing the bosses that I need loot from.

Bob the random hunter leaves and you get Neccowafer the random hunter who just spent 30 minutes waiting for a dungeon, and needed loot from boss #1, who can either finish, and now is locked out and can't specific queue that dungeon again today, or they can leave, and eat deserter, and the group is annoyed.

Sure, maybe the group doesn't care, but the person who gets dragged in as a replacement and has spent 30 minutes waiting for 10% of a dungeon probably cares.

Also you run into this on any boss that drops especially coveted tank gear, like a shield. If shield boss is boss 1 our of 3, you kill boss #1, tank leaves. New tank comes in, realizes boss #1 is dead, and leaves. This continues a few times until you get lucky and get a tank that already has it or get a tank that will grudgingly finish the dungeon even if they don't want to. Either way, people are getting screwed because the tank left.

[hellosaltygoodness]

Mmmmmm no. Not only do I not want somebody in my group who doesn't want to be there, but there is no real reason to even give a shit if somebody drops group since I can count on one hand the number of times its ever taken a group I was in more than 60 seconds to get a rep. And I don't think its particularly rude to leave a group, unless youre the tank or heals who do it mid pull like a douche. But most of all, all those wonderful people who leave groups early are doing all of us who are only queuing for VP a huge favour. On behalf of all of us who hate dungeon grinding, I want to extend my sincere thanks and appreciation to all you quitters out there.

[Otimus]

I don't think punishing is ever the answer for these things. It's like piracy, punishing isn't ever going to solve anything. Instead, just reward people as much as you possibly can. If the rewards are good, people will stay/roll fairly/etc

[Deleted]

Let's start with your first statement.

What's the issue? Players getting gear for specs other than the one they're currently playing? That problem only began to arise because players feel entitled. Hell, I get called a ninja for rolling on gear I need, for my main spec! Yay for people not understanding how monks are supposed to gear up - but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

The issues are a) people leaving dungeons before it's time, thereby slowing down the progress for other players, and b) taking gear which isn't meant for them, and thereby slowing down the progress of other players.

Emergencies rarely happen? Show proof. If my kid bangs his head on something, or has a scrape or bruise or I get a phone call, I'm sorry but this is more important than a video game. I'm considering pretty much any thing that requires my full attention an 'emergency', in a very very broad sense.

I think it is you who needs to be told that your kid is more important than a video game. If you kid injures itself, you run away from the computer and tend to it without even thinking about any potential superior item you may have lost in WoW. This shouldn't even be considered an argument. Besides, things of that nature happens very infrequently. You having to run to the bathroom or grab a quick snack isn't anything that you need to leave the group over. You could just tell them 'hang on, I'll brb' for the minor things that can't wait.

Second: Groups wipe. It happens. I can remember quite a few times spending 3-4 hours in a dungeon that should have taken 15-20 minutes. It happens less today , but it does happen. I've NEVER seen someone rage over someone quitting after 10-15 wipes - but your system would very clearly punish anyone who did this, forcing people to stay in bad groups. It might not be happening right now, but I don't expect all heroics to be as easy as these - and I still see occasional wipes in Shado-pan.

Again you are bringing forth the obscure cases as argument, when in fact they either very rarely happen or can be solved using clever design. For instance, if you wipe 5+ times the group could collectively vote for a group disband, with only 2 or 3 votes needed for a disband without ramifications. Besides, when you do wipe for that many times it'll probably have passed at least 15 minutes, by which time each player has proven itself to be loyal to the cause, and certainly passed the '5 minute loot rule'.

Third - All players in the group worked equally for the boss kill. Why should you get special privileges over me? We're both aiming for the same thing: To gear up our character in the way of our choosing. I'm sorry but in roughly 80-90% of my groups, I'm top dps, top heals, while tanking. I can solo pretty much any heroic except for shado-pan(which I will get down, damnit :< ). If you want to throw the "who did the most work" argument, I'ma say I did. Most non-guild groups I'm in I'm roughly 50-60% of DPS, and 70-90% of heals. Guild groups I run 4 dps, and me tank+healing.

Back in the day, we used to say that the specc you entered a dungeon with is your main specc. You are still entitled to roll for OS gear, or even vanity gear, but it should not come with higher priorities than someone who is a dedicated healer rolling for a pure healer item, when you are DPS.

Once he's rolled, you're good to go.

[gibbie99]

I've played now 4 expacs and this in various forms always crops up at the beginning of xpacs, when gear from dungeons actually matter. This situation has always been there but most of the time you could care less. My advice is to let it go and if you dont like it, dont do randoms for a while until everyone is geared beyond heroic level. Then nobody cares again if you need a tank trinket and are a healer spec. Yeah it sucks but there is really nothing you can do about, and not much blizzard can do. The community is a bunch of greedy asshats by design, there is zero reward for cooperation or being kind to other players. Other games have this but not WoW. Remember very soon this will be a moot point since it is pretty easy to gear up in heroics, and then you won't have to deal with this until the next expac.

[loki504]

Solution #1 sounds as a good plan, the penalty could be discussed for sure. Not sure you should get a reward just because you finnish the dungeon though. It should be mandatory, if you leave (not if you dc i guess) then banned for say 5 hours and indeed remove looted items.

and here we have problem one. i plug off my ethernet cable and tada i got a dc.
the reason it is not there yet is because there tons of way to cheat it. and sure it sucks but why do you think we have guilds real id and cross realm stuff? use it.

[Orange Joe]

At this point in the expansion it requires nearly, if not all, slots to be filled with heroic dungeon gear in order to enter LFR. If you're not even able to get into LFR, it's a pretty clear indicator that your ilvl is low for normal mode raiding.

Ask a plate tank who's lost tank gear to Paladins, Death Knights and Warriors in LFD just who cares.

Funny I still have 3 green items and only 2 476 items the rest being 450-463 and I was able to que for LFR.

[princeshoko]

I think all i heard was "Boo hoo cry cry sob complain bitch moan boo hoo cry". Get over it, I think its pretty good as we got it. No one can need anything unless they can use it, i think your just having nerd rage and need to go take care of it somewhere.

As for people leaving, if they down a boss and they get the gear they want they pay the $15 a month they can quit if they want to. Loot is reward for doing somthing. You cant take it away just cuz you want to cry they got what they want and you didnt.

SIMPLE SOLUTION- If you dont like it GTFO and STFU! Not your game so get over it.

[deathwish5]

How about if you leave the dungeon prior to completing it you lose any items won. I also believe all items should be class and spec specific. If youre going as a healer you should not roll on tank gear. It's just a common courtesy is all. Have there be a option if the group wants to disband it cane with no penality.