Holy priest: Best talent Twist of fate or Divine insight?

[Shinra1]

Which talent is best overall? I'm having real trouble deciding and I know that different talents for different fights but the only fight that I cans see divine insight being useful is actually kromog.

[Kulia]

Neither really, tbh. Power Infusion is best in most cases, the reduced mana cost of your spells is just too good to pass up. Plus the haste is kinda nice. *IF* you NEVER ever run into a mana issue, then take Twist of Fate as your go-to, switching to Divine Insight for fights where you use Prayer of Healing a lot, I.E Kromog like you said. Just keep in mind that Divine Insight is really mana costly to use, as the mana cost of Prayer of Healing is kinda high.
So TL;DR: Mana issues?: Power Infusion(macro any on use trinkets to it and use it on CD, it's a nice mana saver + throughput CD)
No mana issues: Twist of Fate as your go-to. Divine Insight situationally.

[Shinra1]

Neither really, tbh. Power Infusion is best in most cases, the reduced mana cost of your spells is just too good to pass up. Plus the haste is kinda nice. *IF* you NEVER ever run into a mana issue, then take Twist of Fate as your go-to, switching to Divine Insight for fights where you use Prayer of Healing a lot, I.E Kromog like you said. Just keep in mind that Divine Insight is really mana costly to use, as the mana cost of Prayer of Healing is kinda high.
So TL;DR: Mana issues?: Power Infusion(macro any on use trinkets to it and use it on CD, it's a nice mana saver + throughput CD)
No mana issues: Twist of Fate as your go-to. Divine Insight situationally.

Power infusion is incredibly weak for holy imo. When I pop it and spam renew it feels like not much is happening healing wise. My mana is not too bad since I have the spirit/multi trinket together with the chew toy.

I need through-put

[KaPe]

Divine Insight gains a lot of power through 2pc bonus, but it's pretty inconsistent. Sometimes you get nice chain of procs that are ready to be used exactly when you need them - at that point, it's an amazing talent. Otherwise, it will proc after other healers already took care of main damage and it feels like a waste.

Still, it's useful on quite a lot of bosses, not just Kromog. After all, it's closer to Chain Heal/CoH than the source spell, and there's *a lot* of fights where aoe healing is helpful. Hell, it even works as a tank heal in a pinch - it can keep bouncing between just two targets, after all.

Twist of Fate is always there when you need it, but it also lacks those special chain proc moments that really help out. It's "better" when you want a stable performance that's not reliant on rng, but it might feel like you're missing something from time to time. In the end, there's no perfect answer to this question.

[Deleted]

The value of DI I find is fairly consistent, my choice usually comes from the effectiveness of ToF. On fights where ToF has low uptime then I generally swap to DI. Due to the nature of ToF offering 'more healing when it's needed' that usually means I just use DI on farm content, especially when there are too many healers. I have been considering using it for some of the lighter damage mythic fights though, hans and frans / flamebender for example.
ToF needs about 66% uptime to theoretically match the potential output of DI.

[Thirteen]

Simple: If you don't have the 2-piece, you always take ToF. If you've got the 2-piece, take DI for Gruul, H/F, Flamebender and Iron Maidens. Basically, if there's high damage throughout the entirety of the fight, ToF will pull ahead. If it's just large bursts of damage that need to be healed up quickly, you take DI. Eg. Gruul's got consistent spikes of damage that need to be healed up very quickly, that's why DI is better. To each his own, obviously, so YMMV and you might find something else working for you, but generally consider ToF as a constant +% healing that saves you mana in the long run, and DI as a quick burst option that will likely cost you mana.

[Kulia]

Yeah, well if you have good regen trinkets then SURE, the other options are more open to you. But I personally only recently switched to holy from disc, so as I'm better learning the spec and how to manage mana, I really value the breather of mana Power Infusion gives me, but when I *eventually* (one day never) get my set bonuses and maybe a Ironspike Chew Toy (hahah fml I can dream) and get the mats to upgrade my hourglass, I'll be okay with switching from Power Infusion. Which is why I said to take it if you have mana issues, as it can give you a really nice breather (and it lines up with every second mindbender)

[Deleted]

Ironspike Chew Toy is not as great as you think and Hourglass is just plain terrible.

[PosPosPos]

Yeah, well if you have good regen trinkets then SURE, the other options are more open to you. But I personally only recently switched to holy from disc, so as I'm better learning the spec and how to manage mana, I really value the breather of mana Power Infusion gives me, but when I *eventually* (one day never) get my set bonuses and maybe a Ironspike Chew Toy (hahah fml I can dream) and get the mats to upgrade my hourglass, I'll be okay with switching from Power Infusion. Which is why I said to take it if you have mana issues, as it can give you a really nice breather (and it lines up with every second mindbender)

FYI, Power Infusion doesn't actually make your spells cost less overall, so your argument is pretty much invalid.

- - - Updated - - -

Ironspike Chew Toy is not as great as you think and Hourglass is just plain terrible.

It really is. And hourglass is just slightly inferior overall to the chew toy.

[Deleted]

In my view, Twist of Fate wins handsdown on almost every fight. It's great on progression where you take a lot of damage, the raid gets low and even on the easy phases, small mistakes mean someone gets low enough.

Basicly: if the raid is taking lot's of damage, you'll get lot's of uptime and value. If that's not the case, it doesn't matter what talent you take unless you care about meters.

[Tataie]

Honestly , i find DI quite an unnecesary talent.I got 4 pc , and played around with DI , nothing special.So for Holy i`ll just stick with ToF , and its passive buff , which i find it much more usefull.

[Thirteen]

Ironspike Chew Toy is not as great as you think and Hourglass is just plain terrible.

No. Just no.

In my view, Twist of Fate wins handsdown on almost every fight. It's great on progression where you take a lot of damage, the raid gets low and even on the easy phases, small mistakes mean someone gets low enough.

Basicly: if the raid is taking lot's of damage, you'll get lot's of uptime and value. If that's not the case, it doesn't matter what talent you take unless you care about meters.

Honestly , i find DI quite an unnecesary talent.I got 4 pc , and played around with DI , nothing special.So for Holy i`ll just stick with ToF , and its passive buff , which i find it much more usefull.

Funny that you say this, I just today realised how little I'm getting out of ToF. Granted I (finally, FINALLY) got my 2 and 4piece (woohoo), but DI just seems so much better on almost every fight, just because of the damage patterns. ToF will probably land you bigger numbers in the long run, but that's not really the point. Most fights in BRF - and most raids, to be fair - have periods of low/no damage, and then a short period of tons of damage (see: Flamebender, Beastlord, Thogar, Iron Maidens, to an extent Gruul and Oregorger and Hans/Franz, which you can practically 2-heal with 30 people), which is where DI is good, just because it gives you a huge amount of burst to cover the outgoing damage. Meanwhile on Blackhand/Furnace/Kromog, you'll be going against constant raid-wide AoE in the form of Demolition/Snipers/Furnace Blasts/Foreman AoE/Smashes/Breath, and they'll be dropping people very fast to the point where they're never on 90%+ HP. So you not only get a longer uptime on ToF, but you actually get to use that +passive healing. So, like, on Hans/Franz, you CAN proc ToF after the tanks get suplex'd, but there's no point because your raid won't ever drop under 80% HP. Meanwhile DI will help you top the tanks off after a suplex and heal anyone that got stamped. Similar logic applies to the rest. I'm on the fence about Gruul and Oregorger, but I'll get back with a reply in a week or two after I've done more of them.

[VigilantRose]

It really is. And hourglass is just slightly inferior overall to the chew toy.

From my calculations (@ilvl 680):
Ironspike Chew Toy = +219 Int, +399 Spirit
Winged Hourglass = +169 Int, +352 Spirit

The mythic Warforged ICT would be +265 Int, +484 Spirit

However, the Stone of Fire grants +368 Int (over time), +253 Versatility and 40% more on potions. Assuming you use a Draenic Mana Potion (34k) every minute, that would translate into the equivalent of +550 Spirit.

[Fenixdown]

I don't have my 2-pc yet so it's ToF all the time for me. It also helps that I tend to have been in raids with some underachievers as far as healing is concerned.

Once I get 2-pc, though, it's kind of a toss-up based on the situation. As stated by others, there are fights of consistent damage where DI can pull through. However, for the rest, ToF will lead to higher throughput because of it's uptime since you won't be placed into as many situations where you can a. proc DI efficiently or b. use it to it's maximum healing capacity.

[Overdispersion]

ToF needs about 66% uptime to theoretically match the potential output of DI.

This is based on what, a Heal/PoH on every 2stack serendipity?

[Deleted]

This is based on what, a Heal/PoH on every 2stack serendipity?

This work in progress spreadsheet;

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1285996122

far from perfect, it's just giving a breakdown of what's available to cast over 3min, on average, with 0 overhealing

[PosPosPos]

From my calculations (@ilvl 680):
Ironspike Chew Toy = +219 Int, +399 Spirit
Winged Hourglass = +169 Int, +352 Spirit

The mythic Warforged ICT would be +265 Int, +484 Spirit

However, the Stone of Fire grants +368 Int (over time), +253 Versatility and 40% more on potions. Assuming you use a Draenic Mana Potion (34k) every minute, that would translate into the equivalent of +550 Spirit.

We have already been through this discussion about throughput *procs* in general for healers. Pops up as and when it likes and you have next to zero control when it does.

Also, what rubbish is this that I am seeing "Assuming you use a Draenic Mana Potion (34k) every minute, that would translate into the equivalent of +550 Spirit." Since when can you pot more than once per encounter excluding deaths and pre potting(not that anyone sane would prepot mana potions)?

The spirit value is equivalent to 100-150 spirit for an average of a 6 minute encounter with a channeled potion.

[Overdispersion]

This work in progress spreadsheet;

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1285996122

far from perfect, it's just giving a breakdown of what's available to cast over 3min, on average

I spent 5 minutes trying to justify why someone would ever take DI over ToF when Di PoM has less HPS than Renew (even excluding the massive overhealing potential of Renew) and then I finally realised it was just HPS and not HPET. <.< The HPET would just be healing done divided my gcd's spent, right?

[Thirteen]

However, the Stone of Fire grants +368 Int (over time), +253 Versatility and 40% more on potions. Assuming you use a Draenic Mana Potion (34k) every minute, that would translate into the equivalent of +550 Spirit.

Uwotm8. No one that can kill Beastlord heroic should be using Stone of Fire. Especially not with the +5 ilvl bump BRF loot is getting.

[Overdispersion]

Uwotm8. No one that can kill Beastlord heroic should be using Stone of Fire. Especially not with the +5 ilvl bump BRF loot is getting.

"This change will be retroactive, affecting existing items that players may have in their possession. Thus, instead of an item level range of 650/665/680/695 for Raid Finder/Normal/Heroic/Mythic Foundry, the loot awarded will now be item level 655/670/685/700 respectively. At the same time, we will be increasing the item level of the new highest-tier crafted and Apexis vendor items by 5, in order to keep their power unchanged relative to the Foundry raid itemization"

Stone of Fire will also be 685. Not that that would change anything.