What does Blizzard need to do to hold subscribers throughout this expansion?

[Playintrafic]

Sure, the dailys has been a issue since launch for many.

lol wut, dailys were not in at launch. Dailies were not added until tbc.

[StaeleAilar]

Rift's Content updates are AAA quality from what i have seen and many others have posted. so to say they take there time because of quality is bs.

"Personal Opinion" I think blizzard barely dose any internal testing and that leave it up to PTR to work out all the bugs. if they did they would have seen how broken the first boss was in the new raid...

What this guy said. Blizzard constantly claim that they take so long because they want to release amazing content bug free and balanced. I honestly do not recall a patch or a release of anything by them that has achieved either of these, let alone both. It's just an excuse and the whole "we want to provide faster updates which we plan to" has been going on for... well since wotlk at least.. and um... yeah..

OT: definitely faster and better content releases. Keep people engaged in the aspects of the game they like by catering to them all.

[Playintrafic]

The biggest complaints about Cata seemed to come at the end, when people had almost nothing to do but DS over and over and over.

Did you play cata at all? The biggest complaints about it were around from day 1. More shit terrible "world" pvp that was one sideded on most servers, and also cock blocked raiding guilds that were not on the right side.

LFD was mindfuck hard because 4/5 people in a group were keyboard turning aoe spammers that thought cc was only for pvp.

Questing was too linear, and the story was shit terrible. No cohesive new area, Just a bunch of broken and strewn out zones.

It just got worse as time went on because of DS being too easy, and ZA/ZG as the only 2 dungeons to run for what seemed like a year.

[vindicatorx]

There is absolutely nothing they can do to hold subs. The game is 7 years old and people come and go, take breaks, etc. Nothing they can do will keep numbers at the current level.

[Lochton]

Hmm... My view...

They should:

1.: Don't allow to be compared to others, therefor excel at their rate, but keep it steady and on topic.
2.: Listen less to the QQ that sometimes really isn't needed, and instead start building up a list and advance from that.
3.: Hire more CM's and GM's to increase the support. Even though they are a major outcome of the company, seems they are needed more for some "special" cases.
4.: Allow a better ladder of process between accounts and actions.
5.: Add some dynamics, the world is desperate, add random spawning bandits / rampaging beasts / Lost deranged cultists and the likes (Just examples, add more danger).
6.: Generate threats in PvP that isn't created by players or just a lucky design (i.e. cliffs). But add traps on the battlefield, dirty tricks and the likes.
6½.: More tip of the day messages because they are needed to explain more to some people. I.e. "Daily quests aren't mandatory, they are there to help you get an edge, but you don't have to do them" or "LFR is an option for all to explore a bit of content, if you dislike it, don't go there".
7.: A variation of services, i.e. buy xp boosts / rep boosts and such. And tweak the subscription at minor thoughts. But avoid becoming F2P.


Just some of my thoughts, heh.

[mosely]

WoW abandoned most of all of these things, which took time. The things that made WoW grow to such a large game are being changed. Dailes were a gift at 70, not something that needed to be done every day. Now dailies are substituting for actual content, and raids are more then lackluster in WoW. Such a shame.

How did dailies turn from something fresh & new to an embarrassing timesink?

When I think back to lvl 70 dailies, I can remember a couple of key daily quest hubs. There were the basic heroic dungeon and battleground daily quests which provided some faster accumulation of currency for your first run of the day. I don't think these existed right from the start of the expansion, and I would say they're a nice bonus for people who were doing this kind of content, and possibly made it easier to convince guildies to join you for stuff that they weren't otherwise interested in doing. Then there were the Ogri'la and Netherwing style dailies, where you grinded out rep to get unique mounts. New mounts were perhaps more enticing at the time, since there were far fewer flying mounts to choose from if you wanted to differentiate yourself than in today's environment. Finally, there was the Shattered Sun Offensive (Isle of Quel'Danas) dailies. I think these were treated largely as a way to grind gold, and maybe to get some gear upgrades (I don't really recall what was offered). The phasing was an interesting feature, and the mount restrictions on the Isle were a big draw for the world PvP crowd, but probably made for a pretty polarizing experience for the rest of the community.

I feel that there was a lot less hand-holding back when dailies were introduced. It wasn't immediately obvious what kind of things you should be doing to earn gold. People that put in the time to research and implement gold-earning methods were well-off, but otherwise I believe the Shattered Sun dailies were an important source of revenue for many people. Maybe we take this for granted now.

What I liked about the TBC dailies was that they were truly optional. If I didn't care what kind of mount I was flying around on, I could skip Ogri'la and Netherwing dailies. If I was able to carve out a niche for earning gold elsewhere, I didn't have to do Shattered Sun dailies. I could always focus on things I did enjoy instead of feeling forced into things I didn't enjoy.

[Xeraxis]

You mean like when they recently released the cross realm zoning on live server and it broke down like half the game and gameplay for days and weeks in ways that could have been prevented with just a little but serious thought and testing like merging RP and PvE realms with PvP realms?

a couple of days (if even that) =/= weeks

[BenBos]

Mostly the number of subscriptions have VERY LITTLE to do with in game mechanics.

Subscription numbers are related to changing markets.

1. Free to play stuff getting released more and more because of failed AAA subscription titles (Lotro, D&D , Aion, SW Tor soon etc ...)

2. Cheap fastly produced sub par Asian MMO's to grab the money and run mechanics.

3. Cheap Apps for tablets which hardly can be described as long term played games but are a nice short diversion.

4. Economic markets for video games that shrank with 20% ... each year in the last 2 years...

Seeing the above reasons my guess is that WOW will have less struggle to maintain subs in 2013 then in 2011-2012.



Let's face it: from the competition there will not be coming much in the future:

- ALL Lores were already used and failed as an MMORPG (Warhammer, Conan, Middle Earth, Dungeons and Dragons, Star Trek, Star Wars, Comics, you name it...) and the one and only Guild Wars2 that was expected and preached over the forums since 2008... has come and is already struggling to keep players in ... for ... free.

- In terms of producing, technical know how and server advancement Blizzard is already LIGHT years ahead of the competition. Some examples: across server game play, not only in instances but even in seamless open worlds without loading screens (imagine this in future projects), phasing without loading screens, smoothest on line game engines in several Blizzard games...

- In the land of the blind the one eyed is King and pretty much the MMO subscription based fantasy landscape is only populated by WOW for the moment. All the rest is ALREADY into the last stage of existence: free to P(L)AY with a lame designer cash shop.

So certainly until 2014, I don't see much change in subscriptions (as the competition already no longer has the resources to topple anything in MMO land) and every person on earth will realise those tablet games have the life of a one day fly ...

If WOW will loose subs it is simply because the MMO landscape will be reduced as a valid massive playing genre.

Diablo 3 already showed that newer and faster on line games will take over (with less reputation grinds and attunements needed), but until then I don't see much problems for WOW until 2014.

---> Edit: and to those who really can't see the revolution in open world across server play, I would say: just play, you have no clue what POWER this new mechanic means for future MMO developments. Just play.

[kage]

Get patches out frequently, on time, complete, & working.

[Deleted]

Faster content would be great, I think considering 5.1 has no new raids or dungeons we shouldn't have waited this long and definitely should be seeing another update within say 6-8 weeks, daily grinds while useful shouldn't just be piled on as filler content. I've enjoyed the Tillers and Order of the Cloud Serpent rep grinds, but I hated the Golden Lotus, August Celestials and Shado-Pan they passed being fun and just became grindy, I had to stop doing them and go back once or twice a week which meant they took longer than I would have liked or expected.

I think blizz have done well this xpack, some tools for controling who you get in LFD would be awesome, something i discovered recently was the LoL honor system where you can give people honor for things such as teamwork or helpfulness, this would be great in WoW specially if it could weigh in to the kind of people you get matched with, theres nothing worse than being put with inpatient people while your trying to learn a spec or dungeon. I know theres guild runs but not everyone has that option.

[Saffa]

Decent content at a fast rate. Look at how Rift releases patches. Blizzard needs to mirror Rift in content speed, and I could see a slow gain in subs. Could even have 12m again if they do it.

Curiosity, how many subscribers does Rift have? From your attitude it would seem like more than WoW but surely that is not true. WhY should they copy a game less successful than WoW

[BenBos]

Curiosity, how many subscribers does Rift have? From your attitude it would seem like more than WoW but surely that is not true. WhY should they copy a game less successful than WoW

Off topîc but Rift has now ... 18 servers world wide , coming from 99 at launch (18% retention). It was always considered that the average Rift server could only hold 2K people concurrently with 1K being the medium standard.

At the moment only 50% of those 18 servers are on medium, which would imply Rift is around 80-100K players (max total) at the most. http://riftideas.com/shardwatch/ green is low btw.

It is the maximum of their total server capacity.

In fact Rift is the prime example that shows that making content fast can't prevent massive subscription losses (in this case almost 90% over 2 years).

Blizzard would need to shut down 80% of its servers (over 2 years) to show the same trends, which simply is proof that content - as such - never was the cause for subscription rise or fall...

[Deleted]

How would making content get slower by the way? The engine doesn't change so the patches should take the same time, not more. They moved their competent developers to their Titan and WoW is just going to get less and less until its finally shut down at around 6 million subs (2-3 years)

Because the wow engine which is basically the WC3 engine isnt designed to be able to handle anything even close the quality of content released now. SO it takes a damn long time to make it work.

[BenBos]

Because the wow engine which is basically the WC3 engine isnt designed to be able to handle anything even close the quality of content released now. SO it takes a damn long time to make it work.

WOW has a unique engine. It has nothing to do with the WC3 engine. Just like every new Blizzard game, each game has its won adapted engine (see SC2, D3 etc...)

That's one of the reasons Blizzard games take so long to develop. First 2-3 years are purely based on (on line) engine development.

it is also the reason why these games feel so smooth and responsive: most other MMO games just lease an existing engine and work on top of that unadapted engine, which explains their lack of responsiveness.

D3 for instance is unbelievable as an on line engine in terms of responsiveness (compared to TL or even LOL or DOTA 2 etc...)

[Coldpro]

Blizzard take their time because they like to provide quality content, they do endless testing internally and on the PTR every patch that is released to make sure that its as bug-free as possible.

Trial of the Crusader says hi in the quality department. Also, bug free? Dude, Trial of the Champion was bugged for months (and may still be bugged), and lets not forget the countless other bugs that are always finding their way into expansions / patches / whatever.

Internal Testing is a bit BS as well, or they would've realized things like Zor'lok were too overtuned before they ever released it.

---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 02:10 AM ----------

WOW has a unique engine. It has nothing to do with the WC3 engine. Just like every new Blizzard game, each game has its won adapted engine (see SC2, D3 etc...)

WoW is a modified WC3 engine, they didn't create the engine they use from the ground up. They've made many many changes to it over the years, but it started out as a simple modified WC3 engine, and thats what it will always be, a modified WC3 engine.

[CaptainArlong]

They could get me back as a subscriber if they gave me Mists of Pandaria for $20 instead of $40. $15 a month versus a $20 off coupon? I wonder what one is worth more to them...

[BenBos]

Trial of the Crusader says hi in the quality department. Also, bug free? Dude, Trial of the Champion was bugged for months (and may still be bugged), and lets not forget the countless other bugs that are always finding their way into expansions / patches / whatever.

Internal Testing is a bit BS as well, or they would've realized things like Zor'lok were too overtuned before they ever released it.

---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 02:10 AM ----------



WoW is a modified WC3 engine, they didn't create the engine they use from the ground up. They've made many many changes to it over the years, but it started out as a simple modified WC3 engine, and thats what it will always be, a modified WC3 engine.

Several sources on the internet indicate that they never used the WC3 engine for WOW.

Every new Blizzard game has its own engine.

---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 03:17 AM ----------

They could get me back as a subscriber if they gave me Mists of Pandaria for $20 instead of $40. $15 a month versus a $20 off coupon? I wonder what one is worth more to them...

I don't see the reasoning. You either join the club or you don't. The price of a few pints extra won't make the difference. If it does, it simply means our club is not open for you.

Go play the free to p(l)ay stuff down town.

In fact 10.000.000 is more than enough weight already. And since WOW will adapt to its new cross server gameplay in the future even 2 million is way too crowded if that would mean feeding all whiners and QQ ers over anything.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Let's face it: from the competition there will not be coming much in the future:

Now this is blatant fanboism...whew!

You forgot to mention: Elder Scrolls Online (being produced by Bioware, sadly Bethesda elected not to do it inhouse); and what I'm waiting on...EQNext.

EQNext will be the next-gen MMO people have been talking about, with customization not seen before (they're already testing the live emotes in EQ2).

I really want EQNext to succeed, because WoW needs a good kick in the butt. Innovation doesn't come from sitting on the laurels, it comes from competition.

And while you were trying to call RIFT as being washed out, it took RIFT to get us AoE looting after all these years trying to loot mobs buried under each other. And you can thank GW2 for all the self-healing.

Each MMO that will come will have Blizzard thinking "oh", and it's surely needed as monopolies are not healthy, especially for game development.

I'll never be a fanboi, my loyalty is to gaming itself. By gamers, for gamers not one franchise.

[ghostwolf09]

Trion's "updates" are usually riddled with bugs and exploits at release, most likely due to a lack of internal testing. Just look at the big Conquest release...that was just embarrassing. They do try to provide a lot of new content, which is great, but it usually needs to be fixed for several weeks after release.

If you think an MMO major content patch will come out with out bugs nor exploits then your are blind. WoW certainly has its bugs that come out with their patches as well even with all the testing. It's part of being in the MMO business major content patches are usually huge and it's practically impossible to not have something wrong with it.

[BenBos]

Now this is blatant fanboism...whew!

You forgot to mention: Elder Scrolls Online (being produced by Bioware, sadly Bethesda elected not to do it inhouse); and what I'm waiting on...EQNext.

EQNext will be the next-gen MMO people have been talking about, with customization not seen before (they're already testing the live emotes in EQ2).

I really want EQNext to succeed, because WoW needs a good kick in the butt. Innovation doesn't come from sitting on the laurels, it comes from competition.

And while you were trying to call RIFT as being washed out, it took RIFT to get us AoE looting after all these years trying to loot mobs buried under each other. And you can thank GW2 for all the self-healing.

Each MMO that will come will have Blizzard thinking "oh", and it's surely needed as monopolies are not healthy, especially for game development.

I'll never be a fanboi, my loyalty is to gaming itself. By gamers, for gamers not one franchise.

Now this is blatant fanboism...whew!

You forgot to mention: Elder Scrolls Online (being produced by Bioware, sadly Bethesda elected not to do it inhouse); and what I'm waiting on...EQNext.

EQNext will be the next-gen MMO people have been talking about, with customization not seen before (they're already testing the live emotes in EQ2).

I really want EQNext to succeed, because WoW needs a good kick in the butt. Innovation doesn't come from sitting on the laurels, it comes from competition.

And while you were trying to call RIFT as being washed out, it took RIFT to get us AoE looting after all these years trying to loot mobs buried under each other. And you can thank GW2 for all the self-healing.

Each MMO that will come will have Blizzard thinking "oh", and it's surely needed as monopolies are not healthy, especially for game development.

I'll never be a fanboi, my loyalty is to gaming itself. By gamers, for gamers not one franchise.

It must be really sad being a WoW/blizzard hater these days ...

WoW being at 10.000.000 subscriptions while most of the rest is struggling to retain 10% of its players in free to P(L)AY cash shops with loading screens.

At least that's the situation in Fantasy based MMO's.

But it must be REALLY scary that Blizzard came out with multi server play as early as 2006 in BG's and dungeons in 2009.

Calling things like AOE innovative when Blizzard just launched open world play across all servers without a loading screen is saying that changing your doormat is a new world wonder when your neighbour just build a new nucleair driven house next to your wooden block hut.

Tldr: 1.2 billion yearly Blizzard dollars serves to put in these things as real time dynamic open world phasing (you know Tlller farming in its current form is even impossible in those other MMO's without phasing...) or cross server play.

Lack of these resources rendered ALL WoW challengers into the ground for 7 years in a matter of months...

Yep, Blizzard haters just ran out of new shiny things to look out for with this cross server thing once more.

Not even a dying argument can be used after MoP's open world cross server play : a 200.000 player WoW in 20 years time will have 20 times MORE players than the biggest WoW server of 2012 ...

Yep, that's called resources to put in game development that really matter. Unless you want to brag or complain about the matching colour of your doormat of course.