[Holy] Fix my Heals!

[Koor]

Another option is to remove the alt modifier altogether, that way the priority will be: mouseover, then your target if you have someone, or yourself if you have no target.

[Xs]

Thanks. This is the one I think I need. I'm use to never targeting myself so the alt cast part really helps. Time to play...

#showtooltip
/use [mod:alt,@player][@mouseover,help,nodead][]Holy Shock

I use an old version (see: longer) of this for all my spells:
/cast [@mouseover,help][@target,help][@targettarget,help][]Holy Radiance
I would probably use your slightly simpler version for Holy Shock though, so you can still use it offensively, otherwise targeting the boss would simply use HS on the tank, which isn't ideal

Also to add to Koor's comment, you can have alt set to a universal cast on self rather than having to macro it. I'm not sure if in my case its being picked up by Bartender or default WoW, but I know mines done it that way ever since the dawn of time.

[Deleted]

Another option is to remove the alt modifier altogether, that way the priority will be: mouseover, then your target if you have someone, or yourself if you have no target.

Whilst I get used to slightly different way of healing I will keep it like this. If I'm running my EF build ( which I do mainly ) there will be a chance that I have tanks targeted and I'm used to healing myself using an alt cast method. Thanks for the feedback though.

I use an old version (see: longer) of this for all my spells:
/cast [@mouseover,help][@target,help][@targettarget,help][]Holy Radiance
I would probably use your slightly simpler version for Holy Shock though, so you can still use it offensively, otherwise targeting the boss would simply use HS on the tank, which isn't ideal

Also to add to Koor's comment, you can have alt set to a universal cast on self rather than having to macro it. I'm not sure if in my case its being picked up by Bartender or default WoW, but I know mines done it that way ever since the dawn of time.

Is there any reason to use your macro for most healing spells over the one I posted? The macro helps with my alt casting problem and doesn't seem to have any downside.

I found that a normal mouseover macro meant that if I had my mouse placed over another raid member and I tried to alt cast it wouldn't work. I use bartender and have it set to alt cast as well, strange.

[Tyranader]

I just got a Warforged Dysmorphic Samophlange and I was wondering how much spirit it is actually worth.

[nightfalls]

I just got a Warforged Dysmorphic Samophlange and I was wondering how much spirit it is actually worth.

I did the math on an Excel spreadsheet, but you know its average PPM from looking at the character screen (making sure you are buffed) and the amount of spirit you gain from having amplification (it does stack).

Then you have 0.5 seconds of 20 stacks, 0.5 seconds of 19, etc. down to 0.5 seconds of 1 stack.

[Tyranader]

I did the math on an Excel spreadsheet, but you know its average PPM from looking at the character screen (making sure you are buffed) and the amount of spirit you gain from having amplification (it does stack).

Then you have 0.5 seconds of 20 stacks, 0.5 seconds of 19, etc. down to 0.5 seconds of 1 stack.

I meant how much spirit is it actually worth overall. like the meta gem has a "its worth X amount of spirit" I was wondering the same for the Warforged Trinket is it like the same as me putting 2k or so more spirit on my gear.

That's what I meant.

[Xs]

I meant how much spirit is it actually worth overall. like the meta gem has a "its worth X amount of spirit" I was wondering the same for the Warforged Trinket is it like the same as me putting 2k or so more spirit on my gear.

That's what I meant.

Assuming my spreadsheet is spitting out the correct numbers, which I'm working with bouchbagette to make sure of, in a raid environment, assuming you've 2/2 upgraded it and including your Prismatic Prism, its worth ~3.2k Spirit
Link: http://i.imgur.com/DzXziSV.png?1

As the notice says as well, thats merely a worst case and in all the scenarios I've looked at log wise, I've got more than the RPPM that spits out

Also as a disclaimer, that sheet is in beta and I recently tried to mess with the formula to make it more efficient, so take the eSpirit with a grain of salt, the mp5 is the part thats 100% correct.

[nightfalls]

Also as a disclaimer, that sheet is in beta and I recently tried to mess with the formula to make it more efficient, so take the eSpirit with a grain of salt, the mp5 is the part thats 100% correct.

I had that table but deleted it, but that spreadsheet is basically the idea. You can calculate mana gained based on 0.56435 (or whatever number it was) spirit to MP5 conversion. Then mana gains appear to be every 0.5-1 second in combat, so you can just estimate that the MP0.5 will be the mana gained at that 0.5 second interval. Add up your mana gains per proc, convert to effective MP5, convert to effective Spirit.

If you want to figure out the spirit value of the PROC and not the overall effective value (so you can compare to say if the proc were straight spirit), you can do the effective spirit over just the 10 seconds duration of the proc to get that number too.

Any overall effective value, as with all RPPM trinkets, is just an estimate.

[Xs]

I had that table but deleted it, but that spreadsheet is basically the idea. You can calculate mana gained based on 0.56435 (or whatever number it was) spirit to MP5 conversion. Then mana gains appear to be every 0.5-1 second in combat, so you can just estimate that the MP0.5 will be the mana gained at that 0.5 second interval. Add up your mana gains per proc, convert to effective MP5, convert to effective Spirit.

If you want to figure out the spirit value of the PROC and not the overall effective value (so you can compare to say if the proc were straight spirit), you can do the effective spirit over just the 10 seconds duration of the proc to get that number too.

Any overall effective value, as with all RPPM trinkets, is just an estimate.

The table takes every Spirit value shown on the left, calculates it as how much that is worth in mp5 (simplified Regen = 1.1287*Spirit*Meditation%) and then divides it by the 10 you see in the Mp5 adjustment cell to get the 0.5 secs of mana it would give you, then obviously times that by the uptime of 1.27 in the above example to obtain the Mpm, which it gets Mp5 from and Spirit from. The current Spirit to Mp5 that it uses is 1.7715, which was the average I got when doing character sheet tests along with running the full 1.287*Spirit*0.5 equation in-line to obtain a 99% accurate Mp5 conversion figure without having to mess with a double factor equation in every cell.

I did try it with just an average Spirit value which was then worked with, but that spat out some very unique results and didn't give me a number that seemed right compared with similar tier regen trinkets. Compared with bouchbagette's work it does spit out some different numbers, but I think thats more because of how hidden his internals are rather than the calculations being all that different. I hope to compare on an equal level to what ever system he used to determine his values and hopefully come to a better conclusion, as I know mine varies wildly based on the Haste rating you give it (its a flat X% haste increase on chance to proc, so Paladins get a considerable amount more than most other classes, which I've tested it with) and some of the other variables it takes in which less complicated systems don't.

[nightfalls]

By "average value of the proc" I am talking about the effective average value of spirit from the proc (based on your mana calculations) then treating it as a trinket that says: "You gain X spirit for 10 seconds (Y RPPM)"

I find trying to convert say 5,000 spirit at 1.1 PPM into an "average" value isn't really reliable as you mentioned, and is not really very interesting, other than comparing 2 mana trinkets.

[Xs]

By "average value of the proc" I am talking about the effective average value of spirit from the proc (based on your mana calculations) then treating it as a trinket that says: "You gain X spirit for 10 seconds (Y RPPM)"

I find trying to convert say 5,000 spirit at 1.1 PPM into an "average" value isn't really reliable as you mentioned, and is not really very interesting, other than comparing 2 mana trinkets.

I set-up the entire spreadsheet to convert mana trinkets of various types into a comparable value (eMp5) such that you could compare them easier, but I do agree that its a tad boring. It has full support for all 4 of the trinkets you could foreseeably use for this tier (not inc the T14 one), but the main thing I've worked on is the DSoD just because its the most interesting and challenging to try and decipher lol

For example, assuming 25% Haste, HLG LFR 2/2 gives 978 eMp5 and DSoD LFR 0/2 gives 1077 eMp5, 2/2 1160 eMp5 (no PPoP), this is why I created it.

[nightfalls]

I set-up the entire spreadsheet to convert mana trinkets of various types into a comparable value (eMp5) such that you could compare them easier, but I do agree that its a tad boring. It has full support for all 4 of the trinkets you could foreseeably use for this tier (not inc the T14 one), but the main thing I've worked on is the DSoD just because its the most interesting and challenging to try and decipher lol

For example, assuming 25% Haste, HLG LFR 2/2 gives 978 eMp5 and DSoD LFR 0/2 gives 1077 eMp5, 2/2 1160 eMp5 (no PPoP), this is why I created it.

Right, I mean, to decipher DSoD though you just have to figure out the mana per proc then it might as well be an overglorified HLG assuming no stacking. While sometimes it can be "useful" to compare trinkets (SSoS versus Chi-Ji for instance), this tier all trinkets are pretty much "self-explanatory."

You have a God-Mode trinket, AoE healing trinket, direct throughput trinket, and mana trinket.

[PosPosPos]

Right, I mean, to decipher DSoD though you just have to figure out the mana per proc then it might as well be an overglorified HLG assuming no stacking. While sometimes it can be "useful" to compare trinkets (SSoS versus Chi-Ji for instance), this tier all trinkets are pretty much "self-explanatory."

You have a God-Mode trinket, AoE healing trinket, direct throughput trinket, and mana trinket.

I think Xs' point is to help others figure how much more/less spirit one would need to break even when going from a throughput trinket to a mana trinket/vice-versa.

I have all 4 trinkets at this point, and since PPoP is essentially the best trinket this tier, it's good to be able to weigh the benefits between the last 3 trinkets for the second slot.

In any case, it's rather telling this deep into the tier which are the best trinkets for the second slot - multistrike is horrible, cleave and DSoD are amazing 2nd slot choices depending on the situation.

[nightfalls]

I think Xs' point is to help others figure how much more/less spirit one would need to break even when going from a throughput trinket to a mana trinket/vice-versa. I have all 4 trinkets at this point, and since PPoP is essentially the best trinket this tier, it's good to be able to weigh the benefits between the last 3 trinkets for the second slot.

Right, my point was that the least value comes from trying to assign an overall spirit value to a trinket, because as even Xs mentioned earlier, RNG and fight duration/profile will essentially make the actual value vary greatly between encounters.

[PosPosPos]

Right, my point was that the least value comes from trying to assign an overall spirit value to a trinket, because as even Xs mentioned earlier, RNG and fight duration/profile will essentially make the actual value vary greatly between encounters.

I should think trying to assign an average value to a proc is heaps better than not at all. In any case, I use cleave when I don't need mana for a fight(Thok) and DSoD for fights I can spam(Fallen Protectors), which does simplify things a little when deciding the second slot.

[Xs]

Right, my point was that the least value comes from trying to assign an overall spirit value to a trinket, because as even Xs mentioned earlier, RNG and fight duration/profile will essentially make the actual value vary greatly between encounters.

As PPP said though, the reason its there is so you can have a unified value on the procs to make staying in your mana comfort zone easier, and in someone like his case, to put a quantifiable number on how much he's losing to gain his Cleave proc, and how much he has to make up for (or how much shorter the fight has to be) in order to make best use of it.

I could also ultimately add a best and worse cast scenario for the DSoD, as I know what the RPPM variables look like on reasonable fights, as I did the same for Horridon's (e.g. http://i.imgur.com/ObGe4j7.jpg ), I'm just perfecting the Spirit conversion system atm to make sure everything is getting converted properly and giving fair numbers against each other.

[Deleted]

So guys, this could be the wrong place to ask for help (i feel alot of my questions might be ones i shouldn't ask, as is said on the 1st page) but, from my armory can you guys tell if im building correctly?

I believe i have hit the low haste cap for EF usage, and i am now stacking mastery for the sheilds. Is my spirit decent enough to go for Flex raids yet using the HR useage to build HoPo and how far off am i from Normal raids.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...namorta/simple

(i know i miss an enchant on my weapon but im hoping i can get the mace from Dark shamans today)

[Bonfiggy]

This is the place TO ask questions, so don't feel bad. Trying to get better is never frowned upon around here.

You're over haste cap by a bit. The caps for EF (with raid haste buff) are as follows: 3506, 7170, 10867. You can safely get rid of 200 haste in your enchants/reforges, either into mastery or spirit if you need.

For regen, I'd say you're a bit low on spirit without the LMG (legendary meta gem) for flex difficulty, but if you have access to consistent mana tide, you might be able to make it work. Probably won't be able to pull off HR>HR>HS consistently without OOMing, but you also might not have to stick strictly to that depending on the strength/gear of your tanks and co-healer(s).

Gem-wise, I would stick to the following:
Red - Int/Mastery
Yellow - Mastery (or mastery/spirit if needed)
Blue - Either pure spirit, or Int/Spirit if spirit is still needed - then go pure mastery unless activating an important socket bonus.

Enchants look fine, except the gloves - should be mastery instead of haste.

Glyphs are good, save for the Avenging Wrath. Literally use ANYTHING but that, however my preference would be for Beacon followed by Protector of the Innocent.

That should get you moving in the right direction - just be sure to play with your spirit and find what works best for you in your situation, and then follow the priorities after that.

[Xs]

I believe i have hit the low haste cap for EF usage, and i am now stacking mastery for the sheilds. Is my spirit decent enough to go for Flex raids yet using the HR useage to build HoPo and how far off am i from Normal raids.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...namorta/simple

Simply to answer the questions, since Bonfiggy's reply was good on everything else.

Your Spirit is a bit low for flex, but with your trinkets you should be all right as long as your Tanks/Co-Healer(s) are of a good standard. For normal I wouldn't go in there without the LMG unless you're going to be gemming for Spirit (320s where you can and 160 hybrids everywhere else), although again that depends on who you go with, but with equal level flex's you'll struggle to have the mana required (heck, even people in 560+ can go oom in there).

[nightfalls]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...namorta/simple

Going to repeat earlier: You are nowhere near the gear level where you should even be thinking about what a "Haste Cap" is let alone trying to make it, regardless of what anyone else posts here. Do not even consider Haste versus Mastery (just Mastery) until you have at least 550 gear (if not more) AND the legendary cloak, then we can talk.

With Eternal Flame, I would go with Spirit > Mastery > Haste > Crit as your priority. While most paladins ran at ~15-16k spirit in your gear level, you also can run more since we scale more with Spirit now (no more melee for mana). You should continue this priority until you get more gear and the LMG then consider dropping some spirit for mastery.