[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[kiezo]

He claims he's read the guide so I'll point him to it again and ask him to read it more thoroughly this time. Thank you for the fast response.

[Deleted]

He claims he's read the guid but I'll point him to it again and ask him to read it more thoroughly this time. Thank you fast response.

Even if he read the guide, there is no consistancy in his gearing. He is reforging haste to mastery and mastery to haste, he is using 13 hybrid gems, all of which is stamina+x, not a single haste gem in his gear except one hybrid stamina/haste. He should not have a single stamina gem in his gear, especially with a stamina trinket on the side. Reforging haste into dodge suggests that reading the guide again could be a good idea.

The lack of chest+feet enchant aswell as no belt buckle also gives me the impression of lack of dedication.

He should of course also try to get the legendary quest line done as quick as possible. This guy has been raiding ToT for atleast 10 weeks and dont even have the legendary meta gem? Didnt even notice that when I first checked his armory. What is up with that? Did he not pick up the legendary quest?

[Nillo]

He claims he's read the guide so I'll point him to it again and ask him to read it more thoroughly this time. Thank you for the fast response.

If he actually read the guide then you should just drop him because seriously that guy has absolutely no clue whatsoever about anything.

Bad gems
Bad reforges
Missing reforges
Missing enchants
Glyph of Battle Healer in 5.4
Clemency is also kind of suspicious

And yes I'm totally serial about this - drop him, now!

Also judging by your logs your other tank doesn't seem to be doing well either at least dps wise with both of them being at 20-40% of the ranking limit on most fights (and on any non-cheesing fight anything below 75% is generally a red flag for bad performance)

[rhandric]

Hi

I'm the raid leader of my guild and I'm trying to get some help for my Prot pally. We're currently progressing on Garrosh and he often drops from full to dead in a very short period of time, and my healers tell me he's been much squishier than our BrM tank for a while now. He used to use a haste build, but is now trying an avoidance build to help with damage. Any advice you may have for him would be hugely appreciated so that I can pass it on.

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Edilêa/simple

Farm: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/18v64nciiruthetl/
Garrosh: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/lrifjjp30wsab2n8/

An avoidance build doesn't help with damage intake, unless he doesn't hit buttons fast enough. An avoidance build also makes you spikier. When did he switch to an avoidance build?

Looking at Malk, since that's a fairly easy fight to analyze for tanking. For HoPo generation, he's generating 1 HoPo every 2.9 seconds average; at a 1.5 second gcd (0 haste), if he hits his buttons fast enough, he should be generating at an average rate of 1/2.7 secs. So, close but not quite, even assuming 0 haste, and even with his avoidance build he's got 15% haste. So that's problem 1. Second, he's only got a 30% uptime on SotR, and only used EF twice for the fight. This, again, goes back to him not hitting buttons fast enough. I see 2 Divine Protection uses, but no other cooldown (defensive or offensive) usage. And the fact that he died on this fight means that his cooldown usage, or lack thereof, isn't due to the fight being too trivial to bother with cds.

I also took a look at his gear, and man, his gemming and reforging is sending a mixed message! He's got some haste gems (or half haste at least), is reforging to haste on some pieces and out of it on others, and is lacking a belt buckle and boot and chest enchants. And frankly, that trinket is a waste on him, he needs to give it to somebody who could use it (I'll take it!)

[Deleted]

An avoidance build doesn't help with damage intake, unless he doesn't hit buttons fast enough. An avoidance build also makes you spikier. When did he switch to an avoidance build?

Looking at his gearing it looks more like a stamin/mastery build. Which is completely fine, except that he got way to much stamina even for a stamina/mastery build and his reforges and gemming are all over the place.

[rhandric]

Looking at his gearing it looks more like a stamin/mastery build. Which is completely fine, except that he got way to much stamina even for a stamina/mastery build and his reforges and gemming are all over the place.

Well, looking at his gearing he's all over the place, and I was taking the raid leader's word about him going for an avoidance build (which if that's his goal, he's failing pretty bad at it). I mean, reforging out of 1217 haste...only to reforge back into 1565 haste? It looks to me more that he either doesn't know what he's trying to do, or he's trying to cover every possible build, and falling short of any of them!

I didn't even mention the fact that his blacksmithing is way too low and he's not getting any benefit from his professions, because that's the least of his problems

[trystero]

That haste.............sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo low. My God, the game wouldn't even be playable at his haste levels.

[rhandric]

That haste.............sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo low. My God, the game wouldn't even be playable at his haste levels.

You were there once!

And just wait til we level and lose all that haste...

[Deleted]

You were there once!

And just wait til we level and lose all that haste...

Honestly, I dont think anyone was :P You had more haste than that in 463 gear.

Maybe in full 463 gear your gear was that, but as soon as you got a few raid items from MSV you were way above 15% haste.

[Deleted]

There's no absolute need to go for haste, you could happily tank garrosh with a full mastery build, or indeed you could go all out stam if you just wanted a massive cushion.

The rela issue is his mixed reforges and gemming which suggest an inconsistency in his approach. His logs suggest a severe lack of CD usage which again is far from ideal considering he dies. The damage on garrosh is largely telegraphed so nothing should come as to much of a suprise.

[rhandric]

Honestly, I dont think anyone was :P You had more haste than that in 463 gear.

Maybe in full 463 gear your gear was that, but as soon as you got a few raid items from MSV you were way above 15% haste.

I dunno, I didn't get above 15% haste until partway into ToT...but then, I had shit for drops in MSV (plate didn't exist!), so that might've played a part in that.

[Deleted]

Honestly, I dont think anyone was :P You had more haste than that in 463 gear.

Maybe in full 463 gear your gear was that, but as soon as you got a few raid items from MSV you were way above 15% haste.

I'm pretty sure I killed sha of fear hc(25) with give or take 15% haste I don't think I was above 7k rating at least - Don't forget that you had to use most of your budget covering hit/expertise caps back then.

[Deleted]

There's no absolute need to go for haste, you could happily tank garrosh with a full mastery build, or indeed you could go all out stam if you just wanted a massive cushion.

You could happily tank pretty much any boss with any build. Going a full out mastery build would be good on some bosses, Paragons HC comes to mind but it would gimp you to far on other bosses. I opted to drop expertise cap in favor of mastery for both Siegecrafter HC and Paragons HC. Overall haste is to strong to not go for it.

Going for all out stamina is completely retarded however, and you should never ever ever do that unless you are really undergeared. I went stamina flask for several bosses when my gear was still catching up, and I was forced to use a stamina trinket when two healing Paragons to get my health pool up, but then we started using three healers (adding a shaman giving me higher HP), so then I switched that stam trinket back to a haste one.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm pretty sure I killed sha of fear hc(25) with give or take 15% haste I don't think I was above 7k rating at least - Don't forget that you had to use most of your budget covering hit/expertise caps back then.

Well, I didnt go for expertise cap, so probably from that my experience is from.

I also had haste on every single piece of gear. Most people did not realise exactly how strong the GID was during T14, I also used haste elixir and Gara'Jal haste shield, so I guess my haste level experience is a bit out of the ordinary.

Edit: Just played together a 496 set and it had 31% haste and 12 expertise without flasks and profession, so with haste elixir and profession could easily be 35%. That was what I was thinking since I remember having over 30% haste in mid T14.
Granted, this was cherry picking the well itemized gear. We all know protection paladins are doomed to shit loot.

[rhandric]

Edit: Just played together a 496 set and it had 31% haste and 12 expertise without flasks and profession, so with haste elixir and profession could easily be 35%. That was what I was thinking since I remember having over 30% haste in mid T14.
Granted, this was cherry picking the well itemized gear. We all know protection paladins are doomed to shit loot.

I would've loved that set going into ToT...alas, I went into ToT with a ~480 ilvl! Plate gear hated my raid.

[Deleted]

I would've loved that set going into ToT...alas, I went into ToT with a ~480 ilvl! Plate gear hated my raid.

Plate gear loved my raid, holy plate... half my gear was holy haste gear for a large part of T14. Towards the end I got to replace a few with str haste though

Same as yesterday. Not a single gear upgrade, dropped 5x holy plate items, disenchanted them all. Our raid did not even go up 1 item level average on the farm day, was quite disappointing. Dropped a lot of mail agility without anyone that can use them aswell.

RNG is RNG I guess.

[Hound02]

Hey everyone, I've been trying to get my team improved performance wise to make future heroics slightly easier / doable, so they're more aware whilst also doing good DPS then they are currently and I thought I'd put a post up for myself too!

I've only been tanking since about August (We needed a tank and as Raid and Guild Leader - I rolled tank for the team). I had always played DPS, so I lvl'd a pally and become tank for us with no clue what I was doing being completely new to a Pally class and Tanking role. I never asked for tips before but I do read up a lot... But asking for personal tips I feel will now increase my gameplay further to help improve myself as well as for our team. I know I'm far from perfect but I do like to do the best I possibly can and only have been playing Pally and tanking for the first time since 3 months back, I feel confident in knowing my class better to ask for tips to become a better tank in general.

I know this also makes little difference, but being raid leader does also mean I sometimes may "mess" my rotation up slightly, but it's no excuse for mistakes in my opinion :P But if you feel the need to take that into consideration, please do(n't)!


Armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Divine/simple
Logs - http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/271528/calendar/10-13/

[Feuerbart]

Hi there,

I have switched my main from ele to protadin 2 weeks ago. I had my pala somewhat geared as backup tank for our raid but switched now since we needed a new tank.
I think my gearing is quite ok at the moment with hit/exp>haste>>>mastery>>>dodge/parry>>>crit.

We are 8/14N at the moment and I do live, but my damage output seems abysmal. 40% ranking seems way off for my 558 item level.
I am working on my CS:J ratio at the moment and have seen improvements there, but next to our warry which does almost double my damage i feel bad.

I have the melee cloak but since the tanking one does proc here and there I prefer that one.
Any suggestions?

Log: worldoflogs.com/reports/bapx66viu8ul2i52/
Armory: eu battle.net/wow/de/character/malygos/feuerbart/advanced

[Seahenar]

Hi there,

I have switched my main from ele to protadin 2 weeks ago. I had my pala somewhat geared as backup tank for our raid but switched now since we needed a new tank.
I think my gearing is quite ok at the moment with hit/exp>haste>>>mastery>>>dodge/parry>>>crit.

We are 8/14N at the moment and I do live, but my damage output seems abysmal. 40% ranking seems way off for my 558 item level.
I am working on my CS:J ratio at the moment and have seen improvements there, but next to our warry which does almost double my damage i feel bad.

I have the melee cloak but since the tanking one does proc here and there I prefer that one.
Any suggestions?

Log: worldoflogs.com/reports/bapx66viu8ul2i52/
Armory: eu battle.net/wow/de/character/malygos/feuerbart/advanced

I was just going to look at Iron Juggernaut, as that's probably the easiest to compare and varies the least by strategy, at least on normal. Firstly, your kill was 1 minute slower so we should generally expect more casts of pretty much everything except CDs (Although 6 minutes should get you an extra AW/HA), and we have almost identical haste levels, however I noticed after shock pulse you were having large periods of not attacking the boss - I assume you were being knocked all the way across the room due to not positioning properly?

There are a few things I did notice though while briefly looking at Juggernaut:
1. Cooldown usage is low. AW not used at all as far as I can see? And DP could be used a bit more (you can use it every time you're tanking the boss on the 3rd flame vent).
2. HP generator usage is low. While your CS was near mine (71 vs 80, and I was sacrificing CS often this week), your judgement usage was very low (49 vs 73), especially as Iron Juggernaut is a fight that favors a higher J usage with mines.
3. Holy prism not used at all
Generally though it's just not pressing buttons fast enough.

Looking at Sha:
1. Cooldown usage was better on this, AW used twice (although DP could still be used more)
2. Filler usage was better but still room for improvement - despite a minute longer fight length only ~ same number of casts.
3. HP generator usage is again low leading to much less SotR.
Again it comes to just generally not pressing buttons fast enough

There are a few things outside of rotation that can elevate tank dps a lot as well to do with actual strategy, such as tanking protectors all on top of each other (I don't get why this isn't standard anyway), having dps ignore reflections on Sha (I assume this was done anyway due to the huge amount of tank aoe damage you had) etc.

[trystero]

Hey everyone, I've been trying to get my team improved performance wise to make future heroics slightly easier / doable, so they're more aware whilst also doing good DPS then they are currently and I thought I'd put a post up for myself too!

I've only been tanking since about August (We needed a tank and as Raid and Guild Leader - I rolled tank for the team). I had always played DPS, so I lvl'd a pally and become tank for us with no clue what I was doing being completely new to a Pally class and Tanking role. I never asked for tips before but I do read up a lot... But asking for personal tips I feel will now increase my gameplay further to help improve myself as well as for our team. I know I'm far from perfect but I do like to do the best I possibly can and only have been playing Pally and tanking for the first time since 3 months back, I feel confident in knowing my class better to ask for tips to become a better tank in general.

I know this also makes little difference, but being raid leader does also mean I sometimes may "mess" my rotation up slightly, but it's no excuse for mistakes in my opinion :P But if you feel the need to take that into consideration, please do(n't)!


Armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Divine/simple
Logs - http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/271528/calendar/10-13/

One thing is that you have a low SotR uptime considering you have 4P and almost 17k haste. With 4P I'd recommend you use DP rather than HA unless you need the cooldown. Looking at your Sha kill, which is mostly tank and spank (except for when you're soaking rifts, which you did 5x), you had a 50% uptime. But to be fair, I don't know what you're doing in there. Maybe you're corralling adds...then I see your Iron Jugg uptime, which is 40%, seems very low for your gear. I admit though that I don't know that fight on heroic so perhaps there's considerable downtime (beyond what there is in normal with Shock Pulse and mine soaking). I don't want to comb too far back in your logs because then I might be judging you without 4p. You may be prioritizing J over CS, which will affect your HoPo generation.

[celinamuna]

One thing is that you have a low SotR uptime considering you have 4P and almost 17k haste. With 4P I'd recommend you use DP rather than HA unless you need the cooldown. Looking at your Sha kill, which is mostly tank and spank (except for when you're soaking rifts, which you did 5x), you had a 50% uptime. But to be fair, I don't know what you're doing in there. Maybe you're corralling adds...then I see your Iron Jugg uptime, which is 40%, seems very low for your gear. I admit though that I don't know that fight on heroic so perhaps there's considerable downtime (beyond what there is in normal with Shock Pulse and mine soaking). I don't want to comb too far back in your logs because then I might be judging you without 4p. You may be prioritizing J over CS, which will affect your HoPo generation.

Depending on strat, you might be out of range for the siege phase.