Do people not like flu shots?

[This name sucks]

Just get your damn vaccinations, people. How quickly people forget that influenza is a very serious illness.

Influenza hasn't been dangerous for a very long time.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that we can't vaccinate against H1N1; the efficacy wasn't anywhere near 100%, but it was on the order of ~70%. I'd love to see it get better than that, but it actually makes a bike helmet a pretty good comparison. Sure, you could get hit by a bus, but there's not really any drawback to it and it can save you from severe injury.

Specifically the 2009 outbreak that you linked, I mean. Sorry for the confusion, but yeah in the link it says that vaccines provided little protection. And yeah, the risk of getting hit by a bus isn't an argument against helmets, either. It's just not an argument for helmets in the context of crashing on your bike.

And yes... you can get the flue from the vaccine. It has dead or partially dead flu germs IN IT. If they aren't all the way dead and your immune system doesn't immediately respond to it then you get the flu. I've seen it happen many times.

You can't get it from a vaccine containing dead germs, which is what is being used now. Vaccines with live, weakened germs could cause an infection in extremely rare cases.

There are possible side-effects from the vaccine that may seem like flu symptoms, but they are not as severe as an infection. I'm not totally sure on why these side-effects occur, but my guess is that it is your body preparing to battle an infection after your immune system comes across the dead cells.

[Spectral]

He claims that otherwise healthy people die from it, which isn't true.

http://thorax.bmj.com/content/65/7/645.full

59% of all in-hospital deaths occurred in previously healthy people.

Pandemic H1N1 infection causes disease requiring hospitalisation of previously fit individuals as well as those with underlying conditions.

[Imnick]

He claims that otherwise healthy people die from it, which isn't true.

He's claimed otherwise and sourced links that prove objectively that it can and does kill otherwise healthy people.
You've said "nuh-uh".

Who is more believable here?

[Spectral]

Influenza hasn't been dangerous for a very long time.

How many people have to die from a given disease in a given year for you to call it "dangerous"?

[Elegiac]

He's claimed otherwise and sourced links that prove objectively that it can and does kill otherwise healthy people.
You've said "nuh-uh".

Who is more believable here?

Him, because scientists live in ivory towers and what they say has nothing to do with "real world" knowledge.

[Spectral]

Specifically the 2009 outbreak that you linked, I mean. Sorry for the confusion, but yeah in the link it says that vaccines provided little protection. And yeah, the risk of getting hit by a bus isn't an argument against helmets, either. It's just not an argument for helmets in the context of crashing on your bike.

The 2009 vaccine was reasonably effective though: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1006736

During the period from October 9 through November 15, 2009, the incidence of confirmed cases of 2009 H1N1 virus infection per 100,000 students was 35.9 (9 of 25,037) among vaccinated students and 281.4 (687 of 244,091) among unvaccinated students. Thus, the estimated vaccine effectiveness was 87.3% (95% confidence interval, 75.4 to 93.4).

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

http://thorax.bmj.com/content/65/7/645.full

Two definitions of healthy. One being not plagued by a disease, one being physically fit. People are mixing them up.

The 2009 vaccine was reasonably effective though: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1006736

During the period from October 9 through November 15, 2009, the incidence of confirmed cases of 2009 H1N1 virus infection per 100,000 students was 35.9 (9 of 25,037) among vaccinated students and 281.4 (687 of 244,091) among unvaccinated students. Thus, the estimated vaccine effectiveness was 87.3% (95% confidence interval, 75.4 to 93.4).

That's after it had already stricken elsewhere, so a vaccine was specifically created for it to stop it rather than to prevent it in the first place. If anything, that will convince people that flu shots are less desirable if they can just wait for it to strike somewhere and then get vaccinated for whatever is bad.

[Spectral]

/facepalm

THAT wasn't a "regular" strain, obviously when a dangerous strain is going on it's a different story, but it's like once in 50 years.

Let's be clear, you said that influenza doesn't kill healthy people and didn't say shit about "regular" strains. You're moving the goalposts rather than manning up and just admitting that you were wrong. Here's a pretty healthy looking guy that died from influenza last year though: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/494656...an-kill-flash/

[Spectral]

[QUOTE=Maklor;19065937]No I'm not - that there is a deadly strain once in a blue moon doesn't mean you should go get a flu shot every year.

If the strain is dangerous we know it well in advance, because of the way it spreads (starts in Asia).

That story you link is about a kid, they are already in the exceptions just as old people and people with different conditions, so he's not a proof of anything.

What age example would you be good with?

And I'm not admitting to anything when I KNOW I am right, I'm a middle aged guy I've been around for a while.

There's nothing worse than people that KNOW they're right about things they're ignorant of.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

If anything, that will convince people that flu shots are less desirable if they can just wait for it to strike somewhere and then get vaccinated for whatever is bad.

No I'm not - that there is a deadly strain once in a blue moon doesn't mean you should go get a flu shot every year.

If the strain is dangerous we know it well in advance, because of the way it spreads (starts in Asia).

That story you link is about a kid, they are already in the exceptions just as old people and people with different conditions, so he's not a proof of anything.

And I'm not admitting to anything when I KNOW I am right, I'm a middle aged guy I've been around for a while.

Damn, I'm good...


Maklor, you realize that it could start where you live rather than somewhere else, right?

That goes both ways.

It's a stupid argument on your part to make me want to "admit defeat".

Why are you doing that... for the same reason that you just claimed I did, you are no better than I am.

Why don't doctors recommend that normal healthy adults get a flu shot if it's potentially deadly?

It's not stupid to want to educate somebody.

Also, doctors DO recommend that normal, healthy adults get flu shots. They just don't recommend it as strongly as they do those more at risk so as not to lessen the impact of those recommendations.

[Imnick]

Where is it that you've been around for a while, Maklor?
Unless it's a hospital or a virology lab I'm not sure how your age is particularly relevant to your knowledge of epidemiology...

[Powell]

I don't get flu shots, i don't trust most of the medicine. Alot of it is just placebo and letting your body work to fight diseases makes it stronger.
People rely to much on antibiotica.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

I don't get flu shots, i don't trust most of the medicine. Alot of it is just placebo and letting your body work to fight diseases makes it stronger.
People rely to much on antibiotica.

Flu shots aren't antibiotic drugs. Flu shots aren't even medicine in the traditional layman sense. They are a preparation of dead cells introduced into your body to teach it about a specific pathogen in order to prepare it for that pathogen.

Imagine influenza as being a violent criminal on the loose and a flu shot as being an announcement to everybody what that criminal looks like and how to fight against them.

[smegmage]

So much ignorance in this thread it hurts.

All those people saying they don't get it and don't get sick, congratulations...you're young and healthy! The role of the flu shot isn't solely to protect yourself, but to protect society. It all boils down to the herd. If more people have the shot, the weaker people are far better off. The fewer people that have it, the more likely they're carrying the strain and more likely to pass it off to someone else who'll actually be affected by it. You may not get ill, but you very well may pass it off to an infant or elderly person who will suffer immensely from it as they don't posses the young immune system you do. Want to be responsible for putting your grandmother in the hospital where she'll be even more susceptible to other illnesses? Didn't think so.

TL_DR, get the shot. If you chose not to you'd better educate yourself so as to not look like an idiot when you try to justify it to someone who isn't as ignorant as you are.

[This name sucks]

Flu shots aren't antibiotic drugs. Flu shots aren't even medicine in the traditional layman sense. They are a preparation of dead cells introduced into your body to teach it about a specific pathogen in order to prepare it for that pathogen.

Imagine influenza as being a violent criminal on the loose and a flu shot as being an announcement to everybody what that criminal looks like and how to fight against them.

And by teaching it means giving you the symptoms as if the violet criminal was beating the shit out of you.

[Deleted]

When I get the flu my productivity increases by 20% yet my boss tells me to stay home and rest (paid )

I never had a flu shot because i'm against it, I rather get sick and let my body handle it. Perhaps when i am of old age i shall consider it, but atm i'm young and my body needs to create anti-bodies.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

And by teaching it means giving you the symptoms as if the violet criminal was beating the shit out of you.

Well if you want to look at it like that, it's more like being sore from the self-defense class.

No I don't, I might be wrong but I'm pretty confident that flu follows a cycle and starts in asia and spreads to the west. (guess I have to go look up that "starting in asia" thing).

If it started where I live a shot wouldn't help anyway since it would be too late.

You never know where a significant mutation will occur and how long that will go. Even though I thought the 2009 outbreak was a bad example in the previous context, I think it's still a good example here. Normally flu season starts during the late fall/early winter and goes on until somewhere around Spring. The 2009 outbreak, however, started sometime in January at the earliest and went on through the spring, summer, and fall.

[Deleted]

Get the every year due to other medical conditions that get much worse and have put me in hospital in the past.
but then I have never been afraid of needles, as a baby (or so I am told) I laughed when I got my vaccinations.

[Scottyjscizzle]

I don't get them cause our bodies already fight off these illnesses, things like smallpox i can understand but its the flu I've gone 23 years and had the flu maybe 4 times.