RIP WoW? Really?

[Reyzzz]

Cataclysm's first tier wasn't bad at all. The Molten front dailies and LFR caused the hate for the expansion.

Wtf? I like molten front dailies because the place gets upgraded as you progress and it has many cool vanity items, can someone explain why people whine(d) about it?

And LFR? Pretty well balanced imo, not so good loot but gives you good intro on bosses and they are mostly one-shottable.

[Miralynn]

Wtf? I like molten front dailies because the place gets upgraded as you progress and it has many cool vanity items, can someone explain why people whine(d) about it?

The grind took an awfully long time... that said, I didn't whine about it, I just didn't bother doing it any further than I had to for necessary upgrades/patterns.

[Deleted]

For a while it was dying, but when I tried the starter edition to check it seemed nice and populated as before!

[ringpriest]

9 Million subs at the end of what was considered the worst wow expansion, at which point do we stop calling them fanboys and something new and inventive instead?

Addicts?

[Shamatastic]

I agree with so many others. Dailies suck my guildies and I haven't received anything in LFR to progress without needing the loot from dailies. Can't raid yet because core members (2 tanks) walked away after being disappointed so we are slowly rebuilding. Now I'm really forced to do dailies. Tired of biting my tongue and joining LFR to only see 28 gold in a bag. Nothing fun about that nor having to listen to at least 5 other people crying about who sucks and who's better than who. Solution? unsubscribe and play something else. Its my choice but really the only one I have left. After so many fun years with this game I've had enough. If the game is fun for you I hope it continues to stay that way. =)

[ringpriest]

In before why did he level a bunch of toons to 90....o wait.

Back on topic.... WOW is dying its pretty obvious. Once the AP runs out and blizzard runs out of tricks you will see ridiculous sub losses. This xpac is burning people out at an enormous rate.

Sure "it has something to do", just THE FACT that something is completely boring for the VAST MAJORITY of people playing MOP. Atleast 90% if not 96% of people are bored already.

Ironically one of the main activities that people did is level and gear alts.... which this xpac essentially eliminates because of dailies. So the FACT is there is less to do for the VAST MAJORITY of people.

I agree with your general trend of thought, but I think Blizzard is far from being out of tricks. Now that SC2 - HotS has been announced, I'd guess that another Annual Pass (that will include HotS and the usual WoW spiffs) to be on offer before Xmas. And when Titan does finally come out, I expect that WoW subscriptions will magically become BattleNet subscriptions that cover both Titan and WoW, probably along with some sort of limited access to Titan and a discount for full access. And once they've got that rolling, all the quarterly reports will ever have is "BattletNet subscription" numbers, along with revenues.

[PaladinBash]

Just another bad who wanted other people to do more stuff but gets mad when he has to do it.

Remember all the people saying they wanted attunements, heroic keys and so on so 'people had to earn entry into raids' or some other nonsense. Well, now there is something that isn't even required by any means but it's there and it is the end of the world. The people who ranted and raved about 'filthy casuals' getting into LFR to devalue their content somehow when they got Saviour at 35% nerf and MoP talents are now the ones whining about 'having to do dailies'.

Yet again it's the case of "other people should have to work hard for what I have". Same old nonsense.

[clevin]

I agree with so many others. Dailies suck my guildies and I haven't received anything in LFR to progress without needing the loot from dailies. Can't raid yet because core members (2 tanks) walked away after being disappointed so we are slowly rebuilding. Now I'm really forced to do dailies. Tired of biting my tongue and joining LFR to only see 28 gold in a bag. Nothing fun about that nor having to listen to at least 5 other people crying about who sucks and who's better than who. Solution? unsubscribe and play something else. Its my choice but really the only one I have left. After so many fun years with this game I've had enough. If the game is fun for you I hope it continues to stay that way. =)

None of that is the dailies. All of that is social stuff that no game can address. Two tanks left... people leave. People are crying about others? Drama, not a game issue. LFR has the same chance for YOU to get loot, you just don't see the loot drop for others and lose it.

Look, if you're not having fun then yeah you should move on. But people who say they're forced to do dailies need to OWN THEIR CHOICES. You can raid in 460 gear which you can get from heroics/scenarios/crafting. If you want VP gear you only need to do dailies at the rate at which you cap VP... there's no point in having rep to buy gear if you dont have the VP and since VP is capped...

Plus, frankly, it wasn't that hard to get revered Klaxxi and GL which opens (for me at least) 4 slots worth of VP gear. That's plenty of gear. And guess what? Dailies go really fast if you do them with a guildy or 2. That's right... play with others! In an MMO!!! /shockedface

What you and every other person whining that they're forced to daily refuse to admit is that you don't NEED VP gear, you WANT VP gear. That's fine, but admit it to yourself if no one else... you could raid with 463 gear but feel more comfortable with better gear.

[Miralynn]

Just another bad who wanted other people to do more stuff but gets mad when he has to do it.

Remember all the people saying they wanted attunements, heroic keys and so on so 'people had to earn entry into raids' or some other nonsense. Well, now there is something that isn't even required by any means but it's there and it is the end of the world. The people who ranted and raved about 'filthy casuals' getting into LFR to devalue their content somehow when they got Saviour at 35% nerf and MoP talents are now the ones whining about 'having to do dailies'.

Yet again it's the case of "other people should have to work hard for what I have". Same old nonsense.

You know what? This sums it up better than any post I've ever seen on the topic. Bravo to you, sir, I'd buy you a beer if you were anywhere near me IRL.

[Steelangel]

WOW is dying its pretty obvious.

And has been in the minds of some since Blizzard released the first patch.

THE FACT

The opinion

that something is completely boring for the VAST MAJORITY

Read: Me and a few other guys

of people playing MOP. Atleast 90% if not 96% of people are bored already.

96% of the people in your parents' basement are bored with WoW. Got it.

anecdotes != data
opinions != facts
"my friends and raid team" != the vast majority of players.

[anti-wow]

I cancelled my sub, but WoW is the only MMORPG I would play.

You know what? This sums it up better than any post I've ever seen on the topic. Bravo to you, sir, I'd buy you a beer if you were anywhere near me IRL.

I live near Alterac Valley.

[dryankem]

Just another bad who wanted other people to do more stuff but gets mad when he has to do it.

Remember all the people saying they wanted attunements, heroic keys and so on so 'people had to earn entry into raids' or some other nonsense. Well, now there is something that isn't even required by any means but it's there and it is the end of the world. The people who ranted and raved about 'filthy casuals' getting into LFR to devalue their content somehow when they got Saviour at 35% nerf and MoP talents are now the ones whining about 'having to do dailies'.

Yet again it's the case of "other people should have to work hard for what I have". Same old nonsense.

This does sum it up perfectly. I'd buy you a beer too

[Shamatastic]

None of that is the dailies. All of that is social stuff that no game can address. Two tanks left... people leave. People are crying about others? Drama, not a game issue. LFR has the same chance for YOU to get loot, you just don't see the loot drop for others and lose it.

Look, if you're not having fun then yeah you should move on. But people who say they're forced to do dailies need to OWN THEIR CHOICES. You can raid in 460 gear which you can get from heroics/scenarios/crafting. If you want VP gear you only need to do dailies at the rate at which you cap VP... there's no point in having rep to buy gear if you dont have the VP and since VP is capped...

Plus, frankly, it wasn't that hard to get revered Klaxxi and GL which opens (for me at least) 4 slots worth of VP gear. That's plenty of gear. And guess what? Dailies go really fast if you do them with a guildy or 2. That's right... play with others! In an MMO!!! /shockedface

What you and every other person whining that they're forced to daily refuse to admit is that you don't NEED VP gear, you WANT VP gear. That's fine, but admit it to yourself if no one else... you could raid with 463 gear but feel more comfortable with better gear.

For my situation personally it has everything to do with dailies. The two people who quit, are gone because they like to play multiple toons and rep gear in the past was a way to keep your alts relavant when you weren't playing your main. They left because they didn't want to keep up and this has trickled down to our small guild of 15 core players. Finding replacements who are actually good is a time consuming process especially since most good tanks are already snatched up.

Yes you can raid with heroic gear, its not easy but doable. The problem is for me and the people I play with is simple, we had options in the past and we watched them get taken away when we were happy with how things were. It's blizz's game if they want to make changes they have every right to but some just don't like where the game is headed.

You keep stating its not hard to get revered and you're right nothing in this game is "hard" but when you have to do it 4 or 5 times it gets annoying and becomes a hassle more than something thats just easy to do. There are so many solutions that can work but so far nothing is being mentioned. I'm happy for you and for the game to be in a place that you enjoy but for so many other players who are in different situations, its just not fun anymore. Please don't disrespect people and lash out at others for having an opinion. If they gave players another way to get rep away from dailies you could still do what you're doing now without changing how you play the game so why shoot others down for wanting to see change?

Also lol, don't speak as if we don't play with others. I've been playing with the same people for 7 years. Take that non sense elsewhere.

I appreciate the open discussion and value everyones point of view as long as they aren't being condescending.

[Pyryte]

I'm not sure about WoW dying, but I fully agree with his situation. Dailies are boring. LFR is terrible. Heroics are too easy and boring. Challenge modes don't give you gear. PvP is a broken mess. If you can't raid in MoP, what FUN method of progressing your character is left? I didn't want to do dailies or LFR, so I stopped playing, because there was nothing else I could do at 90 to progress my character.

First of all, 'FUN' is objective. What one person thinks is fun is not to another visa-versa. Also, LFR is raiding if you didn't know. Why can't you raid in MoP btw? Schedule? Skill level? I hear a lot of complaining from people who don't want to do dailies or LFR, but want to raid. You don't NEED to do dailies or LFR to raid... they give you better gear if it's something you're willing to do but you can raid normal modes without doing either. And if you can't raid, don't want to do LFR or dailies, then it's good you don't play. There has never been more than what is available in terms of content before MoP, if it's still not enough for you, you should have quit years ago. Go play hello kitty island adventure or D3 and buy your way to gear.

[Deleted]

he's right, they said they're over 10,000,000 subs because in the quarterly conference calls, they announce subs. shit isn't rocket science. they were around 9,000,000 pre-mop

it's fucking idiotic to think they have over 11,000,000 but announced over 10,000,000

and if they ban all the bots they'd probably be around 8,000,000

They should announce real subs (EU+US) and Asian differently. Subs are probably around 4million given the released MoP sales figures.

[Tastyfish]

Why does the ''WoW is dead'' argument always have to be about sub numbers? WoW can die in spirit too, you know. Just like in ''WoW is not as good as it used to be, it was at its best during TBC and WotLK''.

Inb4 ''lulz games have spirits?'' ..... no...

Something like that is too philosophical. Do you really expect the lowest common denominator to grasp that?
Then again I don't think you can say/imply/think that WOW's spirit is gone because that implies it was eohemerial to begin with which it is not. I think it's more along the lines that people are burnt out and the market is over saturated with the same shit over and over again.

[Osmeric]

There IS something seriously wrong with this expansion. The level of grind has increased markedly. Rep is not the worst of it -- the VP grind for item upgrades after 5.1 goes live is going to cause spectacular complaining.

Never has the hamster treadmill been so blatantly obvious. My theory is this is all a setup for when they roll out a cash shop where you'll be able to shortcircuit the grind by buying VP.

[clevin]

For my situation personally it has everything to do with dailies. The two people who quit, are gone because they like to play multiple toons and rep gear in the past was a way to keep your alts relavant when you weren't playing your main. They left because they didn't want to keep up and this has trickled down to our small guild of 15 core players. Finding replacements who are actually good is a time consuming process especially since most good tanks are already snatched up.

A) And your tanks need to have VP gear on their alts 2 months in? It's ALWAYS harder to gear up at the start of an xpac. By the second patch it will be easy.

B) It's not the game's fault that you kept your guild small, only have 15 core players, etc. Doing that you obviously take the risk that having a couple of people leave will hurt progress. Again, your issue.

Yes you can raid with heroic gear, its not easy but doable. The problem is for me and the people I play with is simple, we had options in the past and we watched them get taken away when we were happy with how things were. It's blizz's game if they want to make changes they have every right to but some just don't like where the game is headed.

Change is BAD!!! I don't like new things! Well, guess what raiders were saying in TBC about badge gear - they didn't like that non-raiders could get T6 level gear in 2.4 with these new badges. And TBC rep... oy, don't get me started. Look, I get that you used to be able to rep up with zero effort. There are things I'd alter about rep in MoP too. But you do not need VP gear and you certainly don't need it on alts 2 months in. "I want" isn't the same as "I need". Plus... the game changes every xpac. If you've played for 7 years you KNOW this.

You keep stating its not hard to get revered and you're right nothing in this game is "hard" but when you have to do it 4 or 5 times it gets annoying and becomes a hassle more than something thats just easy to do.

And again, why do you need to have revered on 4 or 5 toons right away? You don't. Do what I've done - wait until 5.1 when rep becomes easier for alts.

There are so many solutions that can work but so far nothing is being mentioned. I'm happy for you and for the game to be in a place that you enjoy but for so many other players who are in different situations, its just not fun anymore. Please don't disrespect people and lash out at others for having an opinion. If they gave players another way to get rep away from dailies you could still do what you're doing now without changing how you play the game so why shoot others down for wanting to see change?

Because you and others keep failing to own your choices and insist you're being forced to do things. YOU choose to level several alts to 90. You WANT VP gear on the all right away. You CHOOSE not to try raiding without it. These are YOUR CHOICES. You're not forced to do anything at all, you're deciding you want things that are currently harder to get than you'd like. You can CHOOSE to forgo those OPTIONAL things and do other stuff and see if the game changes again. I'm sick and tired of people whining that they're forced to do things as if they don't have free will. Own your choices.

Also lol, don't speak as if we don't play with others. I've been playing with the same people for 7 years. Take that non sense elsewhere.

I appreciate the open discussion and value everyones point of view as long as they aren't being condescending.

If you play with others regularly and really wanted to be revered on a couple of factions YOU WOULD BE. Not on every alt probably, but again, do you really need every alt to be maxed out this early in the xpac? And if you have so many friends... what was that about not being able to field a raid team?

Finally, I find it amusing to hear people tell me that they've leveled several alts to 90 (done the same thing over and over) but that they don't like to... do things over and over when they need rep. Instead, they'd like to run dungeons for rep... over and over.

[Slummish]

I have a hard time imagining anything will kill WoW until Blizzard does it themselves by releasing a competing or replacement game. WoW is like a snowball that's been rolling downhill for years. It gets bigger and bigger every day and get harder and harder to stop. There is no way now for an outside game developer to compete with WoW unless the new developer invests a hundred million dollars upfront.

[fizzbob]

There IS something seriously wrong with this expansion. The level of grind has increased markedly. Rep is not the worst of it -- the VP grind for item upgrades after 5.1 goes live is going to cause spectacular complaining.

Never has the hamster treadmill been so blatantly obvious. My theory is this is all a setup for when they roll out a cash shop where you'll be able to shortcircuit the grind by buying VP.

it's not as bad as BC. find an old BC server and do it. you'll realize that if you played you forgot and if you didn't play, you need to stop discussing wow like you have

people forget you used to be REQUIRED to grind mobs to even fucking level. what we have today is so goddamn simple and you have so many options. the problem is people who THINK they're achievement whore completists and they're simply NOT. the people who do that stuff do it and don't bitch. they like when it's a bitch because they know you won't do it and they'll be special

i want that shado pan mount. i'm too damn lazy to do the dailies right now. i don't have that shado pan mount and i know why and i'm ok with it. not blizzard's fault, it's mine and one day i'll have it, probably. if not i'll fucking live

mop is not grindy. dailies have always fucking sucked. they removed limits and now people can't stop

imo, impose limits again. the same thing you people bitch about (dailies blocking progression) is what you need (caps blocking dailies that block progression)

love that they've slowed it down a little