What do you think they need to do to fix Monks ?

[Deleted]

I don't understand why people automatically go to the argument that dps is fine when it comes to windwalker fixing... The main point about fixing the class is not about being happy with damage numbers at any random gearlevel. It's about having a spec that is interesting, scales well and is versatile. I'm not ecstatic about being in the middle of the pack, but I can live with that. So let me just stress that the chances I suggest are not about wanting more dps on some patchwerk type fight. I don't care about that. I do however want WW to feel more engaging with choices that actually matter.
For this I would suggest to make FoF abit more appealing to have in the rotation , since it's being ignored way too much in my opinion.
I am very happy with Tiger Palm change next patch, this is a huge quality of life improvement.
What I would really like to see different is our mastery. Having attacks free of resources is not per se a bad thing, it is just something very meh as resources are abundant with proper gear and this will only get worse.
An "easy" way to fix this would be to just lower the value of haste significantly, but that would require some serious number tweaking on our abilities. However I do believe this to be the way to go as this could fix another problem, that we are too stable dps, we don't have much burst on demand.
Making energy regen alot slower and making chi abilities hit alot harder to compensate would also allow us to pool resources for some major burst.
Overall dps would not necessarily increase because of this but it would make for more interesting gameplay.

[Holofernes]

as a monk you do not have shuffle up, YOU WILL DIE, END OF STORY

well same goes for every other tanking class, exept it is called block / blood shield / savage defense.

[Authentic]

Give WW and MW setbonuses that're worthwile. That's about it.

And everyone stop bitching about WW Dps, it's in a fine spot. You flourish better on some fights than others, whereas others do better on the next fight. Sure there's a broken mechanic within FoF, but you're not obliged to use it.

Setbonuses will increase the gap between melee classes though. 85 sec off avenging wrath vs. 5 sec off energizing brew? That's where shit will hit the fan.
Also, in future patches with higher gearlevels, mastery sucks. You'll have so many proccs that your energy will be capped most of the time so that FoF and EB will be totally useless.

That's how i'm viewing the situation.

[Deleted]

I just want an actual cooldown to use during Bloodlust and a fix to Zen meditation to be an actual Raid cooldown... Really sad to see warrior having 3 while ours is broken. :'|

I think WW is in a good spot in PvE, though. And it's really fun to play.

[Skulltaker]

I'd love an actual option for a weapon. The only really usefull item for Windwalkers (PVE) is Claw of Shek'zeer. Gara'kal has that god-awefull mastery stat. That said:

Change mastery to "Also gives your regular attacks the chance to decrease the cooldown of your rising sun kick by 1 second and your fists of fury by 3 seconds"

[Ryanlol]

A few people are trying to make Monks what they aren't meant to be in this thread. In my opinion, Windwalkers don't need a cooldown for Bloodlust. If we did get one, they'd have to tone down our damage outside of Lust. I love the Windwalker consistent damage and I'm fine with our damage not being tied to Bloodlust as heavily as other classes. Additionally, Brewmasters don't need an exclusive boss debuff, that would break a lot of things in the raiding scene.

What DOES concern me is:

-Windwalker set bonuses being so useless that they add 0 or negative DPS. Getting our 4-set requires taking massive amounts of Mastery on, which reduces damage by a significant amount, sometimes outpacing the added DPS we get from the actual 4-set. Which brings me to my next point:

-Windwalker secondary stat scaling. It's so bad that as gear comes in further, Windwalker falls completely off the map in terms of damage. No class, however they're designed, should scale worse than another. I know it's bound to happen on accident, but the rate at which Windwalker scales is so poor that it almost seems intentional.

-Lastly, Fists of Fury should be a single target spell. I'm fine with the channeling, I'm fine with being unable to move. The part that's not acceptable is when a Windwalker is on Amber Shaper and is unable to cast Fists of Fury because the damage will be split in half toward a target that takes 99% reduced damage. I'm fine with the stun 'cleaving' off the main target, to preserve that functionality, but the damage should be single target.

[Vagrancy]

As a brewmaster I'm pretty happy overall with the class. Just a few smalls changes that I would like to see personally.

- Shuffle bumped to 7 or 8 seconds.

- Breath of Fire re-worked. Give it a CD instead of a Chi cost or perhaps make it generate chi. ( I would like to see this re-worked into the level 90 talent tier). Each tick of fire damage has a ?% to add 3 seconds to your shuffle or something would be neat.

- A small buff to our mastery would be great.

[Authentic]

Zen meditation to be an actual Raid cooldown...

This. This. THIS THIS THIS THIS

A few people are trying to make Monks what they aren't meant to be in this thread. In my opinion, Windwalkers don't need a cooldown for Bloodlust. If we did get one, they'd have to tone down our damage outside of Lust. I love the Windwalker consistent damage and I'm fine with our damage not being tied to Bloodlust as heavily as other classes. Additionally, Brewmasters don't need an exclusive boss debuff, that would break a lot of things in the raiding scene.

What DOES concern me is:

-Windwalker set bonuses being so useless that they add 0 or negative DPS. Getting our 4-set requires taking massive amounts of Mastery on, which reduces damage by a significant amount, sometimes outpacing the added DPS we get from the actual 4-set. Which brings me to my next point:

-Windwalker secondary stat scaling. It's so bad that as gear comes in further, Windwalker falls completely off the map in terms of damage. No class, however they're designed, should scale worse than another. I know it's bound to happen on accident, but the rate at which Windwalker scales is so poor that it almost seems intentional.

-Lastly, Fists of Fury should be a single target spell. I'm fine with the channeling, I'm fine with being unable to move. The part that's not acceptable is when a Windwalker is on Amber Shaper and is unable to cast Fists of Fury because the damage will be split in half toward a target that takes 99% reduced damage. I'm fine with the stun 'cleaving' off the main target, to preserve that functionality, but the damage should be single target.

This pretty much sums up what's flawed with Windwalkers. We don't need more damage, we don't need different cooldowns. We need some skills and stats reworked.

[Deleted]

A few people are trying to make Monks what they aren't meant to be in this thread. In my opinion, Windwalkers don't need a cooldown for Bloodlust. If we did get one, they'd have to tone down our damage outside of Lust. I love the Windwalker consistent damage and I'm fine with our damage not being tied to Bloodlust as heavily as other classes.

The problem here is that it isn't just a Bloodlust thing. Monks lack any sort of cooldown for those phases where you need to burst out as much DPS as possible, fights that last very little and, most glaringly, PvP. It's less important in raids where you can just sit on your TEB stacks for a bit before that phase happens (which sucks!) but a very glaring issue in PvP. In the end it would be one 1 change for 2-3 fixes which sounds like a good bargain for me.

Of course though, to each its own. I also like the consistent damage of the class, but not having a proper cooldown is a issue in my opinion. Xuen is nice but scales poorly with anything that isn't raw attackpower, which adds more to what you say about our scaling.

[Deleted]

For Windwalkers?

Channeled Spell that generates 10 Stacks of Tigereye Brew over 10? Seconds that can't be used in combat. Also, I don't understand why our stacks even get removed when we go into combat with a raid boss, why do we have almost 1 minute of ramp up time at the start of a fight?

Our Mastery actually being good. I don't exactly hate free Tiger Palms and Blackout Kicks, but it's a very weak mastery. Aswell as being free, Mastery Tiger Palms should just flat out do more damage, like 50% more, perhaps give you a few stacks of Tiger Strikes when you use them or maybe a stacking buff that increases the damage of your next FoF? Mastery Blackout Kicks should...uh, Proc both the heal and the DoT, even if you have the glyph and regardless of positioning and increase the effect (of the heal and DoT of course) by 100%. I'm not sure this would even make Mastery worthwhile, but it's better than it doing pretty much nothing like it does now.

Glyph of Focused Fury: Your Fists of Fury now requires a target and only hits 2 additional enemies near the target, but it now does full damage to all enemies hit.

That's all I got.

[Deleted]

Zen Med altered to make it a useful raid cooldown.

Windwalker mastery altered to be in line with haste/crit (currently it's valued at half of these 2).

Fists of Fury replaced with Hundred Paw Strike.

Change Windwalker set bonuses so they're actually worth something, 2pc is neither a dps, utility or quality of life increase, 4pc is such a minor dps increase that it's debatable whether or not it's worth getting due to having to use at least 1 item with mastery on it.

View-able fist weapons, even if it's just with jab.

There's probably some other minor things but these are probably the most irritating currently.

[Kisho]

From a Brewmaster perspective:

I'm mostly happy with the class. Maybe a couple of areas here and there need tweaking, but mostly I feel Blizz did a fantastic job with us. Here's a couple of ideas I've been toying with:

-Stuns on us. Yeah, we get hurt BAD when we're stunned. So some sort of extra protection would be great: either a passive to reduce the stun's duration, or a buff to our stamina/armor (with a nerf to our avoidance to balance it out), or a proc that reduces damage taken while stunned. Something along these lines would be beautiful.

-Similarly to the above point, our stamina levels in general are pretty terrible. When my ilevel 490 Monk has barely more HP than my ilevel 440 Death Knight, whilst not gearing for stamina on either of them, something really needs to fixed.

-Breath of Fire. It's a ton of fun and I love it, but at the moment I feel like its damage is too low. A lot of the time you may as well just BoK. I'd like for it to be a viable alternative to BoK, so essentially you're making the decision: more mitigation or more DPS. Seems like a fun choice to make to me. Can make it a similar mechanic to the new Keg Smash, so it doesn't get wildly OP in AoE situations too. It'd be nice if bosses could be susceptible to Dizzying Haze as well, so we can make bosses burn too. May have to remove the chance to hit themselves for that one, though.

-More personal cooldowns would be lovely. Just one more and I'd be happy.

-As mentioned above, Zen Meditation. Far too restrictive atm. I use it only in conjunction with Avert Harm 99% of the time, and that seems wrong to me. Could use a bit of a redesign IMO.

That's everything I can think of atm. As said above, mostly happy with the class/spec, so y'know.

[Terahertz]

Windwalker:
Increase range of all melee attacks to 10ft.
Remove Jab. Tiger palm now costs energy and generates Chi and Tiger power.
Make the 30% ARP passive.
Fire Blossom can target opponents and keep the snare. (wtf with that glyph).
Disable is ranged by default. (melee CC is dumb unless you can stealth).
Add a CD that remove the chi cost of all attacks, increases their damage and all attacks done during this time use the monks weapons in the animation.

============

Make our final tier actually balanced, srsly why does every Monk need to use Xuen. I thought the idea is for all to have a use?

10 yd range melee attacks are stupid and makes some of your balances unnecessary.
Keep Jab, increase damage. Tiger Palm stays the same with the 5.1 buff (30% arp buff immediately)
SFB I agree, make it to be a targeted range attack that also snares, remove the glyph. Even when I face my character EXACTLY the same as my enemy, it sometimes doesn't hit them due to latecy.
Disable? You mean Paralysis? Agree, make it to be 20 yd baseline. Replace the talent so that it will always be an 8 sec CC regardless of position.
Don't add a CD that removes chi cost of all attacks. That's really lame and makes Chi Brew to be a useless choice for WW monks. Just buff Tigerseye Brew stacking (Rising Sun Kick adds 2 TB stacks by default).

I agree with our final tier, it's a REALLY dumb tier for (WW) monks. It's basically a choice between: low CD AoE, High CD AoE and a dumb ability that breaks CCs like polymorph on your enemy -.-

[Valenhil]

I've seen exactly 3 Windwalker monks in arena so far, and 2 of them handed my ass to me. The 3rd was meh.
So I dunno what you mean.

[Sivick]

I don't know about the dps or healer versions, but tanking monks feel OP to me, especially threat wise. It's the first time my pally has felt 100% outclassed in the AOE threat department. it's not even a comparison. That needs a nerf.

[Nanaboostme]

1) Remove the melee cancellation on Zen Meditation.
2) improve Spinning Fire Blossom. Add fire damage over time on each blossom or a snare.
3) Give us max stacks of brew/tea before an arena or bg. It's mandatory to build the up before a rbg or arena right now as a ww or thats an easy/free 20% dmg loss for the beginning.
4) Let us move while channeling Fists of Fury but giving us a movement reduction

[Ryanlol]

The problem here is that it isn't just a Bloodlust thing. Monks lack any sort of cooldown for those phases where you need to burst out as much DPS as possible, fights that last very little and, most glaringly, PvP. It's less important in raids where you can just sit on your TEB stacks for a bit before that phase happens (which sucks!) but a very glaring issue in PvP. In the end it would be one 1 change for 2-3 fixes which sounds like a good bargain for me.

Of course though, to each its own. I also like the consistent damage of the class, but not having a proper cooldown is a issue in my opinion. Xuen is nice but scales poorly with anything that isn't raw attackpower, which adds more to what you say about our scaling.

I don't PvP as Windwalker, but I have tried it. I don't think cooldowns are the issue for WW PvP. You have 10 stack TEB, Xuen, Chi Brew, Touch of Karma, Touch of Death, and the fact that RSK is probably the hardest hitting instant cast ability that doesn't require setup to my knowledge.

Windwalker fails in PvP due to (oddly enough) the lack of mobility. Roll and FSK aren't reliable enough, and we have nothing outside those spells. This exacerbates things because our class is designed to have high uptime and because Tiger Power is a shitty buff. Fortunately, in 5.1, both of these things are being fixed with +10% stacking movespeed and Tiger Power stacks being removed.

[Deleted]

I don't PvP as Windwalker, but I have tried it. I don't think cooldowns are the issue for WW PvP. You have 10 stack TEB, Xuen, Chi Brew, Touch of Karma, Touch of Death, and the fact that RSK is probably the hardest hitting instant cast ability that doesn't require setup to my knowledge. Windwalker fails in PvP due to (oddly enough) the lack of mobility. Roll and FSK aren't reliable enough, and we have nothing outside those spells. This exacerbates things because our class is designed to have high uptime and because Tiger Power is a shitty buff. Fortunately, in 5.1, both of these things are being fixed with +10% stacking movespeed and Tiger Power stacks being removed.

No, not true. One of the things that WW lacks compared to the other melees in PvP is lack of any burst cooldown to use when you're going for a kill. We can put nice consistent pressure to compensate, though, and have average-ly good uptime on targets (you're obviously going to die 1v1 against mages because they're OP against melees and everyone knows that; it's different in a group setting). Xuen isn't feasible because it can go idiot mode and break CCs.

The compensation would be okay if current metagame isn't 100% based on who bursts who first.

The other is the fact that if we get trained from the start we die after we use ToK, but that's an unrelated issue.

[Deleted]

For PvE, I think Monks are in a good position as long as you have 2 good weapons for dual wield - makes them competitive enough to earn a raid slot. I'm saving my 'extra rolls' so I can use them on encounters that drop the fist weapons in the current raid instances.

[TheWindWalker]

I tried out Resto Druid recently (a ~74 alt kitty I had let go on hiatus) and oh my good god the difference in five mans is huge. What do I want for Mistweaver specifically? For Enveloping Mists/Renewing Mist to give a portion of their HoT as instant healing upon application to a target. That would solve so many issues with 5-man and tank healing in general.