To the rogues that waited for 5.1...

[Moistie]

Your Warlock can currently blow up several people at once with 207k chaos waves - do warlocks deserve to be shit next season?

No class 'deserves' to be penalised based on past performance. If that was the case, ALL classes would be shit..... which thinking about it, would be quite balanced.

'Tis the season to be enhancement

Next season, prot/guardian/monk domination time.

[Anjerith]

Reroll for now and come back at 5.4. Feedback was ignored in beta and it's still being ignored.

I think you mean no decent quantity of players submitted valuable and clearly researched data to developers during beta.... which (hey!) is the typical issue. It comes down to "Do I want to try to learn fights before everyone else or should I provide valuable class balancing feedback?".

[Dcruize]

How are enhancements after the patch? Haven't met any yet, just restos who seem really hurt by the totem nerf :/

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 02:22 PM ----------

I think you mean no decent quantity of players submitted valuable and clearly researched data to developers during beta.... which (hey!) is the typical issue. It comes down to "Do I want to try to learn fights before everyone else or should I provide valuable class balancing feedback?".

You'd think maybe the developers would test the stuff out themselves.

[Firebert]

Oh right, so it's ok that certain classes are glad viable but rogues aren't?

Yup, because Blizzard balance for the vast majority, and Glad is most definitely the minority.

Sorry, but that's the way the game goes.

[Faroth]

I'd love to believe you.


I cut my rogue loose. He was just dead weight dragging everyone else down. I'm not waiting 6 months for Blizz to fix it either.

Anyone playing a rogue or a ret paladin for PVP should just cancel their subscription for a few months.

But when rogues were a blind faceroll on just about everyone in pvp, everything was fine according to most rogues, amiright?

Rogue in our raid is still regularly top DPS in LFR runs and when we get our last folks back into raiding I'm sure he'll top meters for us too. If the complaint is exclusively to pvp.....yeah, no sympathy for the class that has historically been capable of killing a fully armored plate class without any chance for them to counter the opening attack.

Hunters: Lowest representation in pvp for how long?

Disclaimer: I am admittedly biased as I have had a long and adversarial relationship with the rogue class ever since hunters were neutered as the rock to their scissors.

I like the old class counter balances other classes design in Classic and TBC despite its flaws.

[Dcruize]

But when rogues were a blind faceroll on just about everyone in pvp, everything was fine according to most rogues, amiright?

Find me an unretarded S11 rogue who defended the temporary OPness that Blizzard gave them with PVE weapons.

Rogue in our raid is still regularly top DPS in LFR runs and when we get our last folks back into raiding I'm sure he'll top meters for us too. If the complaint is exclusively to pvp.....yeah, no sympathy for the class that has historically been capable of killing a fully armored plate class without any chance for them to counter the opening attack.

Couldn't care less what your PVE rogues are doing, this is a PVP thread. No sympathy for a class that can kill plate? What? All classes can kill plate, that makes no sense.

I like the old class counter balances other classes design in Classic and TBC despite its flaws.

So do a lot of people, rogues included. We're not asking to be OP, just on an equal footing with other classes.

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 04:07 PM ----------

Yup, because Blizzard balance for the vast majority, and Glad is most definitely the minority.

Sorry, but that's the way the game goes.

Seriously? If it's non-glad viable in a glad's hands, then it's not 2.2k viable in a 2.2k players hands. Or if you think 2.2k is still a minority, it's not 1.8k viable in a 1.8k players hands.

[Firebert]

Seriously? If it's non-glad viable in a glad's hands, then it's not 2.2k viable in a 2.2k players hands. Or if you think 2.2k is still a minority, it's not 1.8k viable in a 1.8k players hands.

1.5k is average, so 1.8k is most definitely still in the minority.

And "glad hands" doesn't mean that they can get Glad with any class. See Reckful (who switched to Warrior) and all the UP classes that went Rogue for S11.

[Deleted]

I think you mean no decent quantity of players submitted valuable and clearly researched data to developers during beta.... which (hey!) is the typical issue. It comes down to "Do I want to try to learn fights before everyone else or should I provide valuable class balancing feedback?".

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6999249892
There where tons of constructive feedback on the official forums, its more about the developers ignoring the feedback, even GC himself stated he does not read class forums at all.

1.5k is average, so 1.8k is most definitely still in the minority.

Pretty much, you get challenger at 1500-1600 rating and that is the top 30% of the ladder, go figure.

[Dcruize]

1.5k is average, so 1.8k is most definitely still in the minority.

And "glad hands" doesn't mean that they can get Glad with any class. See Reckful (who switched to Warrior) and all the UP classes that went Rogue for S11.

OK to make it easier - rogues are not 1.5k viable for 1.5k players.

Like Reckful, I have a warrior (though unlike Reckful my warrior was originally an alt) so yeah I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, but people having to reroll because a company is too lazy/incompetent is a sign of a game being crap. Nobody should want the game to be in this state.

[crazymack]

Rogues are not fine:

http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/

yes because the changes in patch 5.1 are going to immediately effect the standing ladder statics.

[Firebert]

People having to reroll because a company is too lazy/incompetent is a sign of a game being crap.

No, it's a company that wants to keep you playing. They'd much rather you go level a Warrior and sit at Glad instead of sitting at Glad with the class you sat at Glad at last season, because they get more sub fee that way.

Cynical, I know.

EDIT: That is, if Glad is what you're after. People should really play to what they're capable of in a season instead of crying that Glad isn't possible for their class.

[Strakha]

I guess now the rogues will have to adjust. I'd imagine the best rogues are a lot more obvious now than they were in Cataclysm. The idle threats about cancelling your account don't really do anything, just makes you look silly

[Dcruize]

No, it's a company that wants to keep you playing. They'd much rather you go level a Warrior and sit at Glad instead of sitting at Glad with the class you sat at Glad at last season, because they get more sub fee that way.

Cynical, I know.

EDIT: That is, if Glad is what you're after. People should really play to what they're capable of in a season instead of crying that Glad isn't possible for their class.

I'm not sure though, Blizzard don't gain anything from people having multiple alts. They're even lost out on an extra sub from me as for the first time since WotLK I won't be running rogues on two accounts. Not that the £8 a month they've lost from me is going to upset the shareholders too much I do however know many rogues (several irl) who have wowquit because they feel that their rogue is broken. I've also lost two disc priests off my friends list - they both tried mistweavers but apparently that's boring as hell compared to the old disc play style.

As for playing at the level you're meant to play at, I did 10 games with my rshaman friend in 2s yesterday* and went a jaw dropping 1-10. We've taken that comp to be the highest rshaman/rogue in the battlegroup 2.2k+ before but we're currently sitting at 1400mmr and getting blown up by any warrior/dk/mage team. The totem nerf had a lot to do with this but it's pretty depressing!

*yeah 2v2 is unbalanced, but even so!

[Strakha]

I'm not sure though, Blizzard don't gain anything from people having multiple alts. They're even lost out on an extra sub from me as for the first time since WotLK I won't be running rogues on two accounts. Not that the £8 a month they've lost from me is going to upset the shareholders too much I do however know many rogues (several irl) who have wowquit because they feel that their rogue is broken. I've also lost two disc priests off my friends list - they both tried mistweavers but apparently that's boring as hell compared to the old disc play style.

And the common theme is that they are no longer OP now. People like being OP, people don't like to learn that it was their classes over tuning that made them good. Much like a lot of warriors will feel in the future that play them now, that suddenly thought they were good at warrior.

[Firebert]

I'm not sure though, Blizzard don't gain anything from people having multiple alts.

Yes they do: more play time.

I do however know many rogues (several irl) who have wowquit because they feel that their rogue is broken. I've also lost two disc priests off my friends list - they both tried mistweavers but apparently that's boring as hell compared to the old disc play style.

I agree they may have overdone it a tad, but that's a problem with the Warriors being OP, and not the Rogues being broken.

[celinamuna]

Yes they do: more play time.

Actually that's additional load on server and not beneficial, since you would be paying your 15$/month regardless.

And if you don't think that rogues are broken in PvP you obviously haven't played other classes, I don't pvp much anymore, but every time i've faced a rogue in pvp it would turn into a free kill.

[Deleted]

No, it's a company that wants to keep you playing. They'd much rather you go level a Warrior and sit at Glad instead of sitting at Glad with the class you sat at Glad at last season, because they get more sub fee that way.

Cynical, I know.

EDIT: That is, if Glad is what you're after. People should really play to what they're capable of in a season instead of crying that Glad isn't possible for their class.

Your logic makes no sense. If a class is not able to reach gladiator, it means that it's weak at all levels. While it's true that classes got different skill caps, in general, what you see at the top is what you will see at the bottom. If rogue is not viable past 2.2k (example), it means that a 1.5k rogue will have a very hard time against a 1.5k warrior (example).

Or in short, for some anecdotal evidence, a warrior that trinketed my gouge shouldn't be killing me...

[Roach]

I think you mean no decent quantity of players submitted valuable and clearly researched data to developers during beta.... which (hey!) is the typical issue. It comes down to "Do I want to try to learn fights before everyone else or should I provide valuable class balancing feedback?".

This is so laughably wrong. Someone pinch me.

[Firebert]

Actually that's additional load on server and not beneficial, since you would be paying your 15$/month regardless.

And if you don't think that rogues are broken in PvP you obviously haven't played other classes, I don't pvp much anymore, but every time i've faced a rogue in pvp it would turn into a free kill.

I don't think servers are under stress considering there's 10m people playing now and there were 12m people playing back in Wrath.

And Rogues aren't supposed to 1v1 people any more.

[Flaks]

omg omg i havent been able to kill ppl in one stun lock for 2 months must reroll...

Feedback has been being ignored for ALL classes. Off spec healing? Yea, there were a billion posts on the beta threads about it. Warrior TfB and Frost mage frost bombs? Same thing.

Blizzard flat out doesn't give a fuck about PvP. They do the minimum amount possible to keep the forum hubub and QQ at moderate levels.