Crying about PVP realms ''Blue'' response

[Deleted]

If you don't like getting ganked, don't play on a PvP server. It really is that simple.

[Deleted]

The majority of the WoW population that plays now, started playing when they were early teens, the game seemed new fun, exciting and a lot less frustrating. Less epic.

Over time the general culture of the game has changed, leveling/questing became a chore and lead to the drop in subs.

Suddenly making a huge change to leveling again, to try bring back that old school vibe lead to a negative reaction, because the game had slowly evolved in a cesspit of negatively towards pointless fun. It's Blizzard fault for letting PvP realms slip in the first place, but people are meant to have fun while leveling and the only thing holding them back from doing that is themselves.

[Punisher069]

If you don't like getting ganked, don't play on a PvP server. It really is that simple.

It is as simple as that. Also if you will not change servers or suck it up why complain?

[NRL1515]

Endus, keep trucking on man, swinging that awesome Logic-hammer. I love watching you verbally overpower others with reasoning and evidence. Of course, that would not be possible if there were not those who can clearly articulate their opinions and reasoning as soundly as you can. You have made my rather boring and slow work day quite bright.

OT, I rolled on a pvp server a long time ago just to see what it was like. Rode into town, saw all the quest givers were dead, and went 'Nope.' -> 'Delete Toon' -> 'ACCEPT'.

[coldbear]

A cogent basis for argument (facts) is not an argument itself.

Though it can be, if accepting those facts leads to an inevitable conclusion. Of course what you are doing is working backwards from that inevitable conclusion and then making the leap that it must be my personal position. (and then you are proceeding on that assumption.)

Whatever.

Facts are -

blizzard radically changed the game environment after 8 years.
you change stuff in a radical way, expect unhappy people.
people tend to assume tomorrow will look a lot like today, especially in the absence of any other data.
nowt wrong with any of this.

Bullcrap.

Blizzard radically changed the game environment:

Classic vanilla wow was released November 5, 2004. PVP servers full of hate and anguish and ganking and pvp people loving it.
TBC was released January 16, 2007 - 2 years and 2+ months later. World pvp slowly starts going the way of the dodo. Still plenty of action around bottlenecks and meeting stones and outside instance portals. Witness the huge explosion in world pvp videos.

Sure, CRZ is a change. It's big if world pvp is something you hate and you're on a pvp server despite that. It's just a welcome relief and a correction to something that was out of whack otherwise.

People are stupid. People assume - which makes an A** out of U and ME. People assume wrong, and them being corrected does not make my heart bleed. Not even a little bit. Good riddance to the people who correctly get up and leave for PVE pastures where they can graze blissfully ignorant of any sort of Horde vs. Alliance conflict. Now we just need to treat the rest harshly enough that they leave. It's on. Let the camping and griefing begin and let it not end til the last of the PVP servers is liberated from the yoke of the people who can't choose their server type correctly.

---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 03:42 AM ----------

Well that's exactly what drives me really MAD. Just because an ganking asshole is behaving like an asshole I must change my gaming behaviour? I have limited time to play due to work and family. So before MoP i mostly COULD switch to something else / somewhere else to continue my leveling scedule. Now with CRZ i get killed tripple the time I used to get killed before. And when hitting 85 i can't even escape with flying or another questzone.

Entitled much? Yes, you have to change your behaviour BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE PLAYING THIS MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER SOMETHING. Err, game.

[Funky303]

Look at it another way. Imagine you're afraid of dogs. There's a local park that's officially labelled as a dog park, but nobody ever walks their dog there at the same time that you choose to go for a run through the park. You run there for years, maybe occasionally seeing a dog, but nothing you couldn't avoid.

And then, all of a sudden, there's a group that's arranging a group playtime for their pets, right at the same time you normally go running, with a couple dozen dogs running all over the place and chasing frisbees.

Fucking dogs, all over the park you enjoy! You can't run there any more, because you're afraid of dogs (I'm not saying you're "afraid" of gankers; this is just a believable way to make dogs a "bad thing" in the analogy). You even try changing your schedule, but the first group was so popular that others have sprung up, and the park is just filled with dogs all the time.

What's your reasonable response to this? Your current argument is that the city should build you a new park that's just as good and close by and dog-free, because you don't want to pay for a bus pass or the gas to get to a more distant dog-free park. We're pointing out that it's always been a dog park. You started running there, knowing that. Making the dog park your preferred route when you're afraid of dogs was YOUR choice. The dog owners shouldn't have their park made dog-free because you don't want to change your route. The city shouldn't have to bend over backwards because conditions in the park shifted; it's always been zoned as a dog park, and that hasn't changed now that there are more dogs than there used to be.

Just go find another park.

Seriously, I get it. You don't like dogs. So go find a park that's dog-free rather than complaining about all the dogs in the dog park.

Well that's exactly what I want to do. BUT (and here's your big flaw in logics): I can't just go to another park since I have my running equipment, my locker and my running teammates in this park. Also I would have to PAY a really big sum (for the work that has to be done by Blizz to relocate me) to go to another park. And that's the simple thing. Blizzard doesn't do that because that would instantly empty all PVP servers of the minor faction. Single fraction PVP servers would be the consequence, so no PVP at all. The simplest solution would be a rebalancing of servers (or parks) by merging servers with high opposing factions.

Also your example has another logical flaw. There is not one park. There are 4 parks, all meeting at one corner. You can't go to another park, since your park and the other four parks are gated. Now one day the city changes the rules and puts all most parts of all four parks together into one big park, but only for the dog owners and dogs. When the park was full with dogs on the green field, I could work out on the benches. Now the city removes most of the benches. That's the situation. But even with real life comparisons beeing kinda idiotic when combined with WoW, I still have one big thing that I for myself feel is unfair. It's not PVP, Ganking or whatever. It's my personal view of common sense. As long there is a relatively "fair play" environment. Why do you think is there no 5 queens vs 1 peon chess game ? or no 25 vs. 2 man football? or whatever game/Sport may be out there. Or why are there no 25x Sha vs 10 man raiding teams? Because every game lives from the idea similar to something called "fair play" and "there's a chance to win" - idea. And those fair play rules are normally provided by the organization hosting the stuff. And then enter: Blizzard. They didn't change the rules per se, but they changed the environment, so that unfair (in terms of ganking for example) gaming is highly encouraged. The big cryout in the forums speaks for itself. I lost already three friends whom i played from lvl 50 with. And I'm not the only one. Blizzard needs to get the gaming experience fixed, or it could lose quite a lot of frustrated players. But that's just my opinion.

And I still stand my point: Only because I COULD gank someone, I don't have to do it. You DO realize that you ruin someone others time? And the argument "you chose the wrong server type" is bullshit? When I and most of my online friends started to play WoW and the last 8 years there was no such thing as CRZ, there were even no flying mounts. And there were no faction changes, server transfer etc. So please STFU with this "move on/switch etc.."

---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 11:55 AM ----------

Bullcrap.

Blizzard radically changed the game environment:

Classic vanilla wow was released November 5, 2004. PVP servers full of hate and anguish and ganking and pvp people loving it.
TBC was released January 16, 2007 - 2 years and 2+ months later. World pvp slowly starts going the way of the dodo. Still plenty of action around bottlenecks and meeting stones and outside instance portals. Witness the huge explosion in world pvp videos

You forgot one small thing: Flying mounts, even in classic WoW environment. PVP changes to ganking en masse. Until then it was quite a hassle to ride somewhere to kill lowies, now it's half a minute to get virtually everywhere and drop the Gankbomb from above. Then enter: CRZ. Flying mounts + 10x the gankers.

Sure, CRZ is a change. It's big if world pvp is something you hate and you're on a pvp server despite that. It's just a welcome relief and a correction to something that was out of whack otherwise.

I don't hate world PVP. En contraire. I love it. I have the Turtle shell and most other Gimmicks by the raremobs who bring the fun in PVP. I spend many hours on the weekend in Lions Landing and Domination Point and have fun there.

Not only CRZ changed it, but payed faction changes and server switches. Those two things completely changed the faction ratios on many servers to sometimes stupidly unfair levels. The server I play most of went from Release Ally 2:1 Horde to roughly Ally 1:2 Horde in Wrath due to Affenjungs INC beeing Germanys most successful guild, and then quite fast during Cata to a ratio of around Ally 1:8 Horde now. You can't imagine how funny it is

People are stupid. People assume - which makes an A** out of U and ME. People assume wrong, and them being corrected does not make my heart bleed. Not even a little bit. Good riddance to the people who correctly get up and leave for PVE pastures where they can graze blissfully ignorant of any sort of Horde vs. Alliance conflict. Now we just need to treat the rest harshly enough that they leave. It's on. Let the camping and griefing begin and let it not end til the last of the PVP servers is liberated from the yoke of the people who can't choose their server type correctly.[COLOR="red"]

The very second Blizzard adds some free or really cheap server transfer without the limitation it has now, PVP servers with a noticable faction ratio difference will be single fraction servers al of a sudden. And then the cryout will be epic ^^.

[coldbear]

You forgot one small thing: Flying mounts, even in classic WoW environment. PVP changes to ganking en masse. Until then it was quite a hassle to ride somewhere to kill lowies, now it's half a minute to get virtually everywhere and drop the Gankbomb from above. Then enter: CRZ. Flying mounts + 10x the gankers.


...


The very second Blizzard adds some free or really cheap server transfer without the limitation it has now, PVP servers with a noticable faction ratio difference will be single fraction servers al of a sudden. And then the cryout will be epic ^^.

A) You missed the point. Injin claimed that it's a radical change after 8 years. Bullcrap. It's a radical change for someone who's only used to WOTLK/Cata and onward. Which is what - 3-4 years? The weekly dungeon and whatnot still had us enjoying a bit of world pvp in WOTLK for quite the while.

A.5) Yes, absolutely travel and teleporting and flying is way too easy in this game. Which is why everyone should have a parachute and be able to dismount themselves and enemy players in mid-air ON PVP-FLAGGED ENEMIES ONLY.

B) And people such as myself will revel in the notoriety and fame and excitement that comes from sneaking around killing enemies while facing insane odds. And then they'll figure out a way to auto-self-balance the server faction ratios, the most simple of which ways would be to enforce a 1:1 ratio in a server-only BG instance like Tol Barad or whatsitcalled in WOTLK, Wintergrasp? They need to build into each server a very small but steady and reliable incentive to roll or transfer onto the underdog side, such as a more reliable/guaranteed spot in one of the BGs, with some minor, not super-powerful rewards at the end of it - perhaps a pushover raidboss with mediocre loot á la WG/TB raids.

[Endus]

Well that's exactly what I want to do. BUT (and here's your big flaw in logics): I can't just go to another park since I have my running equipment, my locker and my running teammates in this park. Also I would have to PAY a really big sum (for the work that has to be done by Blizz to relocate me) to go to another park.

$25 is not a "really big sum". And yes, you can just go to another park. You don't want to go to another park. So you get to suck it up and accept that it's a dog park, and that dealing with the dogs everywhere is the natural consequence of your original decision to set your running gear and everything up at the dog park in the first place, when you don't like dogs.

Also your example has another logical flaw. There is not one park. There are 4 parks, all meeting at one corner. You can't go to another park, since your park and the other four parks are gated.

The analogy of "another park" was referring to PvE servers, not another PvP server. If you're on a PvE server, you cannot get CRZed with a PvP server and forced into their ruleset. The only way that can happen is if you deliberately join a cross-realm group on a PvP server and get pulled in, but that is, again, YOUR choice.

And I still stand my point: Only because I COULD gank someone, I don't have to do it. You DO realize that you ruin someone others time? And the argument "you chose the wrong server type" is bullshit? When I and most of my online friends started to play WoW and the last 8 years there was no such thing as CRZ, there were even no flying mounts. And there were no faction changes, server transfer etc. So please STFU with this "move on/switch etc.."

1> Ganking doesn't "ruin someone else's time". That's part of the game that I play. It's why I play on PvP servers, as do most PvP players.

2> If you dislike ganking, and you're on a PvP server, you DID pick the wrong server type. They're clearly labeled as gank-friendly. Your choice. Take ownership of your own decisions, rather than trying to blame Blizzard for your choices.

You forgot one small thing: Flying mounts, even in classic WoW environment. PVP changes to ganking en masse. Until then it was quite a hassle to ride somewhere to kill lowies, now it's half a minute to get virtually everywhere and drop the Gankbomb from above. Then enter: CRZ. Flying mounts + 10x the gankers.

He didn't "forget" it, it's irrelevant. It's also that much faster for backup to arrive. It changes how things play out, but it doesn't fundamentally change the concept that high levels can jump on you and slaughter you mercilessly. That's what PvP servers allow for. The flying mount thing just changes HOW they do it, not WHETHER they do it.

The very second Blizzard adds some free or really cheap server transfer without the limitation it has now, PVP servers with a noticable faction ratio difference will be single fraction servers al of a sudden. And then the cryout will be epic ^^.

That is, in a nutshell, why they never will add a free server transfer option. Because it makes it too easy. All you're doing there is justifying the price tag they've attached.

[thunderdragon2]

endus you are right

25$ isn't a big sum but 25$ per toon is so if there was bulk discount for say 3 or more chars say for say 55$ for the lot

that would be reasonable would it not?

[Nerraw]

Having a bulk discount would be nice, but it doesn't make sense in this case. The cost is there to prevent people from using the service at a whim. I'm sure there are a lot of ways it could be exploited if it suddenly became cheaper to move a bunch of characters at once.

[thunderdragon2]

Having a bulk discount would be nice, but it doesn't make sense in this case. The cost is there to prevent people from using the service at a whim. I'm sure there are a lot of ways it could be exploited if it suddenly became cheaper to move a bunch of characters at once.

it cant be use at wim as you cant transfer the same toon(s) more than once a month[COLOR="red"]

[Nerraw]

It's still short enough that you can go somewhere, mess things up, and then go somewhere else in a reasonable time.

[thunderdragon2]

It's still short enough that you can go somewhere, mess things up, and then go somewhere else in a reasonable time.

do explain how that is please , i don't he how its possible to mess up the economy on 1 server in a month anymore

mainly since CRZ is doing that already

also the bulk discount will only apply for going from PVP to PVE realms nothing else

[coldbear]

endus you are right

25$ isn't a big sum but 25$ per toon is so if there was bulk discount for say 3 or more chars say for say 55$ for the lot

that would be reasonable would it not?

Really? You need a minimum of 3 fully leveled characters to switch servers? Bullcrap. Load one up with all the gear, transfer it and you're done. If not, you're a sucker for all the stupid dumb stuff like sitting there looking at achievements and this or that mount when there's 100+ other options.

Spoiled brats around here. Dog park running dog haters calling the police every time they see a dog. WTF??

Here's a little food for thought:

[Fenixdown]

I'm just gonna say this. I'm not really bothered by world PvP. I spent years on a PvP server. Faction imbalance and CRZ are what bother me, because it just makes things far more frustrating than they should need to be. Now, people bring up this whole "well in vanilla blah blah" and "well in BC blah blah"...bull. I don't know what vanilla or BC you were playing, but it's definitely not the "omg world PvP was EVERYWHERE! It was even in the ocean! You couldn't walk ten yards without being attacked!" storylines that you make it out to be. I think all told I maybe encountered world PvP in vanilla about 10% of my actual online time. 15% tops. I probably encountered an equal amount of world PvP in BC.

The things that made world PvP kind of fun back then, that everyone seems to have forgotten about, was the server community. SERVER is the key term here. You'd have your KoS lists. You'd have your organized city attacks. You'd actually have people WANT to go out and put up a fight against someone else if they started mess. Since MoP and CRZ, though, if you're in a CRZ area all that goes out the window and it becomes...blech. It's just a gross perversion of what world PvP actually should be. Flying mounts didn't ruin world PvP, there was still plenty of world PvP in BC, when flying mounts were introduced. Instance queues and LFR and battlegrounds didn't ruin world PvP. What killed it was an eventual lack of interest. It was a fad. Something that sort of just died out.

coldbear loves to bash LFD as "being 4chan". Well...what do you think CRZ is, coldbear? Guess what. It's open world LFD. It's where people go to be the exact same thing that you think a dungeon queue is there for. It's where people go to act like fools because they know they can get away with it and there's zero repercussions. Before CRZ, there were repercussions. You'd know who those people who went out to act like fools were, and there would always end up being resistance and those people would get just as equally harassed as they did harassing themselves. Now? You don't even know who these people are. You're likely to never see them again.

Furthermore, I'd love to point out the brilliance behind the statement "if you don't like it, GTFO". Okay, so let's say for every ten people, one actually listens to you. Now you've just lost 10% of your entire server's population...for what? Because you don't want to think of a more reasonable solution? Who does that hurt, folks? That's right...YOU. Now you have less people on your server which you can world PvP against. So, now of the remaining 90%, let's say another 5% decide to listen to your amazing advice. Now the imbalances get worse, and more and more people just start to say "to hell with it, this server's dead Alliance/Hordeside" and guess what they do. They leave, too.

Now you're looking at a server like Illidan US. Ask any Horde player there what world PvP is like on that server. They probably don't even realize they're ON a PvP server. I bet you could ask some people there and they would tell you they've never seen an Alliance player online. Is THAT what you want ALL PvP servers in the game to look like, people? Does that really make your precious "world PvP" any better? Think about that, and then maybe you'll finally realize that the people who are complaining aren't complaining because "omg I got ganked!". They're complaining because THERE ISN'T A SINGLE DAMN THING THEY CAN DO ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE SERVER IS F&*^ED BY IMBALANCE AND CRZ.

Blizzard, and yourselves, needs to finally get off your high horses and realize that yes, there is an issue, and it's not getting better by any means. World PvP is still dying to the point of extinction, and until you can stop going "well get off the server, noob!" and start going "hmm...we need to fix this problem", then you're just going to see it slip further and further into the darkness of nonexistence.

And everyone who is happy on the PvE servers that you told them to go to is going to point. And laugh. Very, very, hard.

[Endus]

do explain how that is please , i don't he how its possible to mess up the economy on 1 server in a month anymore

mainly since CRZ is doing that already

also the bulk discount will only apply for going from PVP to PVE realms nothing else

The point is, there's absolutely no reason to offer such a discount. None.

People want to transfer? That's why they offer the service. It doesn't mean they should offer it free or at a reduced price. A lot of reasons that people want to transfer will boil down to "Blizzard's policies led to this". Your server population has dropped because people are transferring out? If Blizzard hadn't added transfers, they couldn't have, so Blizzard should offer you one for free! Your guild died because of class changes to your leader's main that caused him to quit? Blizzard should give you a free transfer! Etc.

The reality is, you're just facing the consequences of your own choice of server. I've transferred twice, from my original server that I picked almost at random, to the most populated RP/PvP realm. That community started to collapse, for raid recruitment at least, so my guild moved to our current home, on one of the most-populated servers (we wanted PvP ruleset, moderately balanced factions, and in the top 25 for population but not the top 5 to avoid queues). I paid both times, because it was my choice to transfer. Things changed on my servers, which led to that choice. That doesn't mean it was Blizzard's fault, or that my desire for a transfer means it should be free.

All the "I want to transfer" does is describe that there's a market. It doesn't suggest the price should be free or discounted.

And each time I transferred, I left behind at least 6 alts that were at or near the level cap. So seriously, stop with the "I need to transfer all my toons or else" stuff, that's just hyperbole.

There's nothing about the current situation that suggests those wanting to transfer off PvP realms are facing anything different than anyone else who's wanted a transfer in the past. You no longer like your server. That was true of most people who transfer. That doesn't mean it should be free.

---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 02:30 PM ----------

If not, you're a sucker for all the stupid dumb stuff like sitting there looking at achievements and this or that mount when there's 100+ other options.

Not even that. Almost all of that stuff is account-bound, now, anyway. The few things that aren't, you probably have on your main and only your main.

Now, people bring up this whole "well in vanilla blah blah" and "well in BC blah blah"...bull. I don't know what vanilla or BC you were playing, but it's definitely not the "omg world PvP was EVERYWHERE! It was even in the ocean! You couldn't walk ten yards without being attacked!" storylines that you make it out to be. I think all told I maybe encountered world PvP in vanilla about 10% of my actual online time. 15% tops. I probably encountered an equal amount of world PvP in BC.

I've leveled three toons to 80+ since CRZ, via questing. I got ganked or otherwise jumped by Horde about 10% of my actual time in quest zones, if that. The only zone where I got ganked more often than that was Blasted Lands.

So I'm totally comfortable with my comparisons to ganking in Vanilla. Blasted Lands is about as bad today as Stranglethorn Vale was, back then, and for similar reasons. Most other zones, I saw more people my own level, and for the most part we avoided each other if we were opposite faction, or we'd have one spat and move on with our lives. Which is still a VAST improvement over hitting level cap before getting my first HK, because I never saw anyone while leveling, which is how it used to be.

Furthermore, I'd love to point out the brilliance behind the statement "if you don't like it, GTFO". Okay, so let's say for every ten people, one actually listens to you. Now you've just lost 10% of your entire server's population...for what?

I'm pretty confident in stating that you're significantly overestimating the problem. In my server's Trade or General chat, if someone complains about ganking, there's usually a half dozen telling him things like "PvP happened on a PvP server". The complainer gets no support from the community.

Most people on PvP servers know what they're about.

Because you don't want to think of a more reasonable solution?

Nobody in the this entire thread has proposed a "more reasonable solution". We've had "change the PvP rules so it's not a PvP server any more, and totally screw over the majority who are there for the ruleset we don't like". That's not reasonable. We've had "free transfers for everyone!". That's not reasonable. We've had "make new rules to punish gankers", that's not reasonable either.

So what's your "more reasonable solution"? I'll tell you right now, if it involves limiting zone instances based on level to prevent ganking, or otherwise applying rules to PvP servers to prevent or limit ganking like "dishonorable kills" and the like, any of that's not "reasonable". It involves putting harsh constraints on world PvP, in a server type which exists to remove those kinds of rules. If you want a more structured and "fair" PvP experience, then you should be on a PvE realm. The policies are very clear on that.

Blizzard, and yourselves, needs to finally get off your high horses and realize that yes, there is an issue, and it's not getting better by any means. World PvP is still dying to the point of extinction

You're not being internally consistent.

You can't both claim that "World PvP is still dying to the point of extinction", when you were previously complaining about there being too much ganking due to CRZ.


Also, faction imbalance on a server is 1> not an issue related to CRZ or the PvP ruleset in any way, and 2> can actually be potentially mitigated through CRZ, moving forward. Everyone agrees it's not much fun being among the 0.1 in a server that's at a 1:0.1 ratio. That's also not relevant to this discussion, since CRZ wasn't meant to fix server faction balance. It was meant to increase population numbers in less-populated zones. Blaming it or the PvP ruleset for faction imbalance is like blaming your oven because your car won't start.

[Goatfish]

Love it!

I'm getting sick and tired of all the complainers on PvP realms. If they don't like it, group with one on a PvE realm or change server!
I'm always looking forward to being attacked while levelling (I rarely attack first myself), and when it happens, I do my damn best to destroy their sorry little alliance butts!

Yea, it's not fun being ganked by 90's, but if I'm getting ganked on players WAY higher level then myself, I simply log my main and get some nice world PvP going.

When I was levelling my DK I grouped up with a druid and we started questing together in Dread Wastes. An alliance warrior attacked us with his hunter friend, and we beat them. After a while some guildies of theirs showed up and started ganking us.
That lead to me and the druid logging our mains and going back to kill them. That escalated to a ~15vs15 world PvP battle for hours, and after the ended battle, one of the alliances logged his horde char and whispered "Thanks for the great battle - Missed this alot and I'm very happy to finally meet someone willing to take up the challenge".

So yea, while it seems to suck for the poster, I really don't care at all.
Live with it, or change server!

On a side note - I'm also happy that the blues finally says wtf they think!

By this logic I should go up to some middle schoolers while they are at the playground and punch them in the face just because I want a fight. Damn what they want to do that day, maybe if I'm lucky their dad is nearby and I can have a real fight instead of doing 1-shot wonders all day.

What it comes down to is Blizzard has many options to solve this problem without inconveniencing the people who want to do it, but they won't put in any of these fixes because it would cost them revenue.

[Endus]

By this logic I should go up to some middle schoolers while they are at the playground and punch them in the face just because I want a fight. Damn what they want to do that day, maybe if I'm lucky their dad is nearby and I can have a real fight instead of doing 1-shot wonders all day.

No, you're being deliberately obtuse.

Everyone on a PvP server consented to the environment. Children can't consent. It's more like joining Fight Club. In which case, yes, you should go punch someone in the face. That's what you, and they, are there for.

What it comes down to is Blizzard has many options to solve this problem without inconveniencing the people who want to do it, but they won't put in any of these fixes because it would cost them revenue.

Name one. Seriously, one single, reasonable option that does not cause greater problems than it "solves".

[darkwarrior42]

If you don't want to gank or be ganked, there is no reason to choose a PvP server.

That's the only real purpose served by PvP servers these days, as threads like this amply demonstrate.

[Fenixdown]

My solution is what needs to be done, anyway. Merges need to happen. CRZ opened up lower level areas, sure, but it caused way more problems than it fixed. Blizzard just needs to bite the bullet. Servers like Skullcrusher (medium pop, 6-1 Horde to Alliance) need to be merged with servers like Korgath (about 5-1 Alliance to Horde). Even PvE servers could use some more life on them. Recruiting for PvE is just as bad as trying to mine nodes on PvP servers.

Also, just because your experiences through CRZ are one way does not make everyone else's experiences through CRZ the same. For the overall consensus, it's the exact opposite of your experiences. I did all of my pet collecting on a PvE server because of CRZ. The people who would always attack me when trying to catch a pet were never from my own server, they were some tool from some other server I'd never even heard of. And of course, when they realized that I actually knew how to PvP, they would just turn around and kill the pet I was trying to catch and then run away like a baby. Yet, somehow, the world PvPers are the ones who are the "tough guys". Riiiiiiiight.

Last, but not least, you simply proved my point further on two fronts. Server community does not exist (if someone got in trade chat and said "Soandso is camping me in Suchandsuch, the responses would have been "let's go get him!" and NOT "lol cry moar noob, pvp server") and world PvP is dead (again being proven by the same response changes). There is no "get more people to help fight back" anymore, because everyone went from trying to help the weak to just pointing and laughing at them and telling them to go away.

As a side note, at no point did I say there was "too much ganking due to CRZ". I said that there is no community to world PvP as a result of CRZ. Through all your eloquence, you're blinded by a lack of understanding simple sentence structure.