Crying about PVP realms ''Blue'' response

[Pann]

I think my point went over your head. There is no skill involved in blindly going out questing without a backup on PVP server. You're just asking for it. You know exactly what's going to happen and then you come here crying about it when it does eventually happen.

Learn. To. Play. Learn to look over your shoulder. Learn where the ganking hotspots are. Learn how to rez and fly away. Learn how to make friends. Learn how to help people so you get a reputation and get help in return. Learn to join a guild. Learn to play an alt on a PVE server.

These are all parts of the game you apparently willfully and blindly choose to suck at. Stop sucking. You choose to treat WoW as if it is a single-player game where all things are fair and balanced. That's what PVE servers are for. Everyone just being nice to each other unless you both flag for pvp.

The ganking hotspots are usually the areas where players have to go to complete their quests. You cannot fly before level 60 so resurrecting and flying away is not an option in a lot of cases. Servers that have a tiny population are being joined with larger servers in CRZs so finding enough people to repel the attackers is often not an option. A level 90 character can easily survive the attacks of many lower leveled character and it is unlikely that a max level character would be in the zones that is causing the problems unless they are also ganking low levels so gaining a reputation of helping people is, again, not really an option. It is unreasonable to expect players to leave behind their friends and realms because CRZ has suddenly changed how the realms have worked for the past six years.

This behaviour has a positive impact on the game. It increases faction antipathy and a feeling of "War". Which is what this game is about, you flower-sniffing bunny loving hippie communist.

Halaa, WG and TB were great back in the day. With a bit of luck they'll turn them all into 1:1 ratio server-only BGs so there'll be incentive to roll on the underdog side of each server.

You do realise that people have quit the game over these changes? That is far from a positive impact. Halaa, WG and TB failed to bring WPVP back, in six years I have seen two battles at Halaa and I can can count on one hand the amount of times I have seen any PVP outside of the battles in both WG and TB, you would not have people asking for the return of WPVP if they had succeeded.

[Seegtease]

I would say that many of the parties involved in this discussion suffer from a conflict of interest.

When leveling an alt I personally enjoy getting killed even by players who are far beyond my level. It is fun. I also enjoy having the possibility of attacking someone far below my level. I don't seek to do it but it adds to the open world experience and results in me having the means of protecting my interests if I ever end up in a situation where I want to do so. Examples of these can be me protecting a low level character from another, or a low level character trying to obtain a resource node/rare spawn that I want. Not being able to take action in these situations on a PvP server would seem rather puzzling.

Valid and well said points. Which is why I agree that PvP servers should stay how they are, but that they should make a few servers that offer a different world PvP experience for those who enjoy it. All they have to do is make a server with 2 types of flagging - one that only allows people under X levels higher than you to attack you (always active), and the current flagging we have (active only if you flag for it or attempt to attack someone over X levels higher). I doubt such a thing would be drastically difficult to implement. Would people play on it? I think so.

[Endus]

When I saw this thread had been resurrected I wondered how long it would be until you turned up to tell everyone that has a problem with the current system they are wrong.

If you set your account to subscribe to threads you post in, then if you click the "settings" link, you get a list of subscribed threads, and can easily see if any threads you've participated in have been bumped. You're implying a lot more effort and focus than I actually invest in watching threads.

Your latter option does not address the problem. I'm still going to have people massively more powerful than me come and effortlessly kill me. I don't want PvP only when I want to get involved, I want PvP to not have ridiculously and unrealistically large gaps in power. I don't mind somebody coming and death gripping me away while I'm trying to quest as long as the fight is competitive.

So what you want is Battlegrounds and Arenas. You should play on a PvE server, and use those for your PvE gameplay experience.

No it doesn't, and it is possible. You simply either implement a dishonorable kill system to discourage one-sided fights, or you don't allow it altogether outside of a certain level range (unless flagged for it).

That's antithetical to the idea of open PvP, which is the purpose of PvP servers. Not to mention, they've had dishonorable kills, and they were removed because 1> they were so punitive to competitive players that they had to avoid any world PvP or risk a lowbie deliberately diving into AoE to screw them, and 2> they weren't punitive enough for people who didn't care about rank or honor, so the gankers kept on ganking unchecked.

They could make a third server type, for restricted PvP, but I rather suspect it would work out as well as twink battlegrounds did. There's a lot of people SAYING that's what they want, but not enough would actually bother to make the experience work out.

None of this suggests that PvP servers are in any way bad or broken, either. Just that you don't like them. So if you're on one, that's your fault; you should take responsibility for that decision, and deal with it accordingly.

You know what would be a solution (although extremely difficult to implement)? Power scaling. That is, PvP effectiveness is all relative to who you are fighting. If a level 90 were to engage a level 30, they would fight as effectively as a level 30. Boom, competitive world PvP. I gather this would be unpopular because for some reason people enjoy one-shotting others, though I can't figure out why.

That's a thoroughly ridiculous idea. Why not just remove levels entirely and have everyone start at level 90? The entire central ethic to MMORPG design boils down to incremental increases in player power. Whether by improving your character via levels, gaining new abilities via either levels or points or some other mechanic, or gaining slightly better gear to increase power that way. That's the core concept of the entire system, across every single MMORPG.

And your "solution" is to throw that out the window so that nobody has any advantage. Those advantages due to gear and level are intended. They're absolutely deliberate and desirable. They're why PvP gear exists, rather than BGs using normalized gear for everyone regardless of their investment; because people who've been playing longer and better are supposed to outgear you and stomp you.

While I can agree that there's a case to be made against that with regards to competitive play, that's an argument that doesn't really apply outside the tournament servers, which do normalize gear that way. If you don't like higher-level and better-geared players stomping you, I would suggest not playing MMOs, since that's the core design concept and reward system pretty much across the board.

[Keoren]

Which is why I agree that PvP servers should stay how they are, but that they should make a few servers that offer a different world PvP experience for those who enjoy it.

I don't exactly have a reason to object that since it shouldn't affect me in any way. I'm just sceptical over the likelihood of such a scenario taking place. Adding a whole new server type probably comes off as a risky move as it means that either old servers need to be converted or new ones added. I would imagine that there are also no guarantees of enough players being interested as it is, but that's just my personal speculation.

[Seegtease]

That's a thoroughly ridiculous idea. Why not just remove levels entirely and have everyone start at level 90? The entire central ethic to MMORPG design boils down to incremental increases in player power. Whether by improving your character via levels, gaining new abilities via either levels or points or some other mechanic, or gaining slightly better gear to increase power that way. That's the core concept of the entire system, across every single MMORPG.

And your "solution" is to throw that out the window so that nobody has any advantage. Those advantages due to gear and level are intended. They're absolutely deliberate and desirable. They're why PvP gear exists, rather than BGs using normalized gear for everyone regardless of their investment; because people who've been playing longer and better are supposed to outgear you and stomp you.

While I can agree that there's a case to be made against that with regards to competitive play, that's an argument that doesn't really apply outside the tournament servers, which do normalize gear that way. If you don't like higher-level and better-geared players stomping you, I would suggest not playing MMOs, since that's the core design concept and reward system pretty much across the board.

Honestly I could go on a tangent about this but it seems to be that other than a company making more money from a timesink, there's no real demand for levels anymore. They serve little purpose to the majority of players.

I always hear how people hate leveling, how the only level that matters is max (personally, I like leveling, but I suspect I'm a minority on this). People say Blizzard shouldn't waste time balancing low levels and just worry about max. They say Blizzard should only develop content for max level (which is why everyone only runs max level raids with any regularity). If only max level matters, why do the other 89 exist? Maybe it truly is time for MMOs to begin changing the mold and dropping leveling as we know it. As much as people seem to dread the leveling process, perhaps we'd be better without it. They could provide other incentives for questing.

I think it's fine for people to be more powerful than you are. My only problem is when no contest exists. Even if you only have a 5% chance of winning, at least you have a chance. A geared person will have a huge advantage, but an undergeared player can catch them off guard, use their skills with perfect execution, and win. What I think is personally a problem is the fact that 0% chance of winning exists (that is, by the time the fight starts, you are dead). Not only is it highly impractical, but it feels silly to get hit hard enough to have been killed 15 times over.

[Endus]

Maybe it truly is time for MMOs to begin changing the mold and dropping leveling as we know it. As much as people seem to dread the leveling process, perhaps we'd be better without it. They could provide other incentives for questing.

Some are. I picked up The Secret World over Christmas on a half price sale, and it doesn't have "levels" at all. You've got skill points you earn, and ability points, for quests. Skill points improve weapon and "armor" skills (in quotes because it's talismans, not actual armor, but they serve the same purpose), which control the quality of gear you can wear and certain inherent stats, and ability points buy skills for those weapons. Each weapon has two base trees, and when both are purchased, it opens 6 additional trees. Many of the basic skills are as good as the upper-tier abilities; the upper tiers allow for greater specialization to optimize your performance, so rather than one spammable attack that's a single strike, you can get a Focus spammable attack that does the same base damage, but take other passive skills that boost Focus abilities or otherwise work better with the new ability.

It could be argued that getting everything maxxed out is "max level", but you can get to max-level weapons and gear requirements at 1/4 of the way there, or less. Then, if you've made the right choices and take the time to gear up, you're competitive with people who ARE maxxed. The advantage they have is that they have much more variety available to them.


So yes, there are ways to go other than how WoW went. I'm not arguing that WoW's model is the best possible one. But the complaints in this thread aren't that the WoW system is flawed. It's that they made the wrong decision, and now with CRZ they're seeing WHY it was the wrong decision. If you really don't like WoW's basic systems, though, you aren't going to change them; the PvP ruleset is one of the few things that's remained relatively unchanged since it was launched. If the issue is that you wish you were on a PvE server instead, then it's your responsibility to own up to your error, and pay for a transfer.

The attitude I'm attacking is the "Blizzard changed something so they owe me free transfers and/or have to change the PvP ruleset". I'm not really defending the WoW system as the ideal of how these systems could ever be.

[Seegtease]

So yes, there are ways to go other than how WoW went. I'm not arguing that WoW's model is the best possible one. But the complaints in this thread aren't that the WoW system is flawed. It's that they made the wrong decision, and now with CRZ they're seeing WHY it was the wrong decision. If you really don't like WoW's basic systems, though, you aren't going to change them; the PvP ruleset is one of the few things that's remained relatively unchanged since it was launched. If the issue is that you wish you were on a PvE server instead, then it's your responsibility to own up to your error, and pay for a transfer.

The attitude I'm attacking is the "Blizzard changed something so they owe me free transfers and/or have to change the PvP ruleset". I'm not really defending the WoW system as the ideal of how these systems could ever be.

I should mention that I play on several servers (I'm a massive altoholic) and I have tried PvP servers. I'm not really complaining because it's not hard for me to just reroll elsewhere (in fact, I enjoy doing so). I realize I can leave any server.

My problem is that there is no server for the type of gameplay I'd enjoy, and I just know I can't be the only one. PvE is more boring, but PvP provides an unfun element (I'm sorry, but I just don't enjoy 1-shotting nor being 1-shot. It's not compelling gameplay in the least).

So I have to decide between a less fun and immersive leveling experience, or a leveling experience with the occasional competitive world PvP but the downside of randomly dying with not a lot I can do about it. I really would like there to be an option for an exciting and dangerous leveling experience without randomly dying (sometimes to the point of griefing). It just as well be meteors falling from the sky instead of players. Makes no difference in how "fun" it is.

[Pann]

If you set your account to subscribe to threads you post in, then if you click the "settings" link, you get a list of subscribed threads, and can easily see if any threads you've participated in have been bumped. You're implying a lot more effort and focus than I actually invest in watching threads.

Thanks for the patronising advice on how to subscribe to a thread. I am not implying any sort of effort was made on your part. I am simply stating that you have made your point and you are not only unwilling to listen to others but insist that anyone that disagrees with you is wrong.

[Deleted]

Do you want level-restricted PvP with a focus on equality in team strength? Then what you want is Battlegrounds or Arena.
Do you want voluntary world PvP where there's still a risk of being attacked, but only if you want to get involved in PvP action? PvE servers. Just flag yourself for PvP, and there you go.

It's not possible to deliver "competitive world PvP". That defeats the entire purpose of world PvP.

In WoW you can't play BGs when undergeared due to the uphill battle. You can't play with your friends either when they're not near your level. Not PvE, not PvP; nothing.

GW2 doesn't suffer from either of these problems. GW2 manages to do it with gear normalization and level normalization but not numbers normalization. WvWvW is as close to fair world PvP as it gets. It completely relies on skill, class, and social factor. Wanna level? Go PvE. Wanna outgear people by grinding? Wrong game.

That's a thoroughly ridiculous idea. Why not just remove levels entirely and have everyone start at level 90?

On the contrary, it is a brilliant idea. It allows a level 90 who skipped certain quests to play those quests at the difficulty they were intended instead of zerging with eyes closed. It brings value to achievements such as Loremaster. It allows a level 90 player to play together with their level 60 friend without purely boosting them. It allows a level 60 player to pull their weight in PvP and PvE. It'd remove silly queues in BGs. It would make leveling fun and challenging again. You can see how great it works in GW2. It boils down to leveling equals unlocking content. They even have talent scaling allowing a level 1 player to see how their class would work in later levels. In WoW the realm lock is gone thanks to realID/BattleTag/CRZ (it is now a region lock) which is great social value for friends but together with normalization WoW would become even better. You could keep the raids and dungeons for their intended level, or just make challenge mode scale up to intended level.

---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 03:34 AM ----------

One more thing level normalization would allow is players to experience previous expansion raids they didn't play. Like say you never did Karazhan or Molten Core but you'd love to play these. Sure, you can do them at level 90. But you're not experiencing much if any tactics. You can just AoE everything, AoE loot, maybe get your mount (which value is also devalued). Gear and level normalization fix this problem. Heck, it allows people to do Herald of the Titans on their (new) main character instead of having to level something up to 80. Heck, it'd allow people to still get I Can't Hear You Over The Sound Of How Awesome I Am. Basically it allows players to (re)play old content as it was (roughly) back in the days which gives (back) value to this old content. Served in the military during Ulduar? No problem, its still there in its full glory. It'd even give more value to transmog gearsets because they'd been harder to gather. But yeah you can't just revert all that which makes the lack of these features a missed opportunity from Blizzard.

[Seegtease]

In WoW you can't play BGs when undergeared due to the uphill battle. You can't play with your friends either when they're not near your level. Not PvE, not PvP; nothing.

GW2 doesn't suffer from either of these problems. GW2 manages to do it with gear normalization and level normalization but not numbers normalization. WvWvW is as close to fair world PvP as it gets. It completely relies on skill, class, and social factor. Wanna level? Go PvE. Wanna outgear people by grinding? Wrong game.

On the contrary, it is a brilliant idea. It allows a level 90 who skipped certain quests to play those quests at the difficulty they were intended instead of zerging with eyes closed. It brings value to achievements such as Loremaster. It allows a level 90 player to play together with their level 60 friend without purely boosting them. It allows a level 60 player to pull their weight in PvP and PvE. It'd remove silly queues in BGs. It would make leveling fun and challenging again. You can see how great it works in GW2. It boils down to leveling equals unlocking content. They even have talent scaling allowing a level 1 player to see how their class would work in later levels. In WoW the realm lock is gone thanks to realID/BattleTag/CRZ (it is now a region lock) which is great social value for friends but together with normalization WoW would become even better. You could keep the raids and dungeons for their intended level, or just make challenge mode scale up to intended level.

---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 03:34 AM ----------

One more thing level normalization would allow is players to experience previous expansion raids they didn't play. Like say you never did Karazhan or Molten Core but you'd love to play these. Sure, you can do them at level 90. But you're not experiencing much if any tactics. You can just AoE everything, AoE loot, maybe get your mount (which value is also devalued). Gear and level normalization fix this problem. Heck, it allows people to do Herald of the Titans on their (new) main character instead of having to level something up to 80. Heck, it'd allow people to still get I Can't Hear You Over The Sound Of How Awesome I Am. Basically it allows players to (re)play old content as it was (roughly) back in the days which gives (back) value to this old content. Served in the military during Ulduar? No problem, its still there in its full glory. It'd even give more value to transmog gearsets because they'd been harder to gather. But yeah you can't just revert all that which makes the lack of these features a missed opportunity from Blizzard.

FFXI had a level sync function. It was quite good.

[Deja Thoris]

Thanks for the patronising advice on how to subscribe to a thread. I am not implying any sort of effort was made on your part. I am simply stating that you have made your point and you are not only unwilling to listen to others but insist that anyone that disagrees with you is wrong.

To be fair, hes made it about 3 times every page.

[Tucci]

Some of my best experiences and memories came from random world pvp. Nothing better than outplaying someone trying to gank you or even multiple people at the same time. Especially if they're higher level. I have SOO many fraps videos some of which are me on my 30 something mage escaping this 80 rogue because I had so many little tricks from engineering. Gnomish mind control cap, net trinket, engineering bombs, rocket boots, rocket helm, nigh invulnerability belt, rare spawn stun trinket etc. It's just hilarious and I wish more people knew what those experiences felt like.

Leveling back in Vanilla was fun on my warrior, you'd have someone gank you and then you'd decide enough was enough, blow your forbidden 30 min cd Reck, pop deathwish, bloodrage, Rampage and just annihilate them instantly. Or just run up to someone on your 2h enhance shaman and 1 shot them with a windfury proc that crit. So satisfying.

[Seegtease]

Leveling back in Vanilla was fun on my warrior, you'd have someone gank you and then you'd decide enough was enough, blow your forbidden 30 min cd Reck, pop deathwish, bloodrage, Rampage and just annihilate them instantly. Or just run up to someone on your 2h enhance shaman and 1 shot them with a windfury proc that crit. So satisfying.

That sounds like fun back in the day when such things were possible, since the power gap was not insurmountable.

[McFrotton]

When CRZ started I transferred 3 of my main characters on a PvP realm....most fun I ever had :P

[coldbear]

In WoW you can't play BGs when undergeared due to the uphill battle. You can't play with your friends either when they're not near your level. Not PvE, not PvP; nothing.

Bull****. In WoW you can play BGs if you play smart when undergeared. Skulk around. Play with the team according to their strengths. Don't pick fights you can't win. Play smart. Stay back until you know the time is right for some undergeared action. Help CC/stun and help the team win. Find people in similar situations to team up with. Make friends. It's a MMO, not a single-player game. Help people out.

If you really think you're gonna be able to just rush in alone all rambo-ninja-like and be successful with zero pvp gear, you're bloody stupid. Learn. To. Play. The game. That includes knowing when to fight, not just what buttons to push in the right order.

Or you can just whine and complain about it. Your call. But it seems you've already made the decision to cry and whine instead of actually learning to play smart. In Classic vanilla I got murdered in BGs, until I found a Thunderfury warrior and started hanging back and healing from max range as feral. It was fun and got me honor til I could get some stuff. If you're a melee class just focus on stuns and CC's, then get the hell out and bandage. Or pay someone to heal you. Or cry about it.

[Ringthane]

Here's how it works, once and for all:

PvP means "player versus player". Period. it doesn't mean "player versus player in fair battle". It doesn't mean "player versus player as long as I approve". It doesn't mean "player versus player just the way I want it". It means "player versus player". It's always meant that, and it's always going to mean that. To put it another way, if I start a rock band, and enter a Battle of the Bands, I may go up against bands I'm better than, and win against them. But I also might go up against a group like the Beatles, or the Who, and I'll probably lose. If I lose, I'm not going to sit around and whine about how it's not fair that bands that are so much better than me win, or any of that. That's the system, and if I don't like it, I shouldn't have joined in the first place.

Same thing here. Playing on a PvP server because you want PvP, and then throwing a hissy when PvP happens, suggest a deficit in your critical thinking ability. Not the fairness of the game, not the design. If WoW's PvP is not what you want, either play on a PvE server and do battlegrounds and arenas, or go play one of the many games out there with PvP that may be more what you're looking for.

[Drfireburns]

I thought this "I don't want PVP on a PVP server" bullcrap died? I didn't realize that people were still too concerned with mechanics and how the game is played.

PVP is PVP. If you don't like the idea of someone who might be better than you, or a higher level than you, then fucking play on a PVE or RP server. The thought of me possibly having to battle someone while doing a quest or just level grinding was and still is exciting. Especially when it's a class that should faceroll mine and I win.

If you don't want that aspect or possibility in the game, then go play PVE. Too many tree-huggers and crybabies anymore.

[Seegtease]

PvP means "player versus player". Period. it doesn't mean "player versus player in fair battle". It doesn't mean "player versus player as long as I approve". It doesn't mean "player versus player just the way I want it". It means "player versus player". It's always meant that, and it's always going to mean that. To put it another way, if I start a rock band, and enter a Battle of the Bands, I may go up against bands I'm better than, and win against them. But I also might go up against a group like the Beatles, or the Who, and I'll probably lose. If I lose, I'm not going to sit around and whine about how it's not fair that bands that are so much better than me win, or any of that. That's the system, and if I don't like it, I shouldn't have joined in the first place.

The problem is, the difference is absolutely insurmountable. In order for a level 30 to defeat a level 90, they would have to be AFK for a very long time. Aside from that, the 90 just needs to right click for a single swing to win. This isn't like putting you against a better band in Battle of the Bands. As I said before, this is like putting a third grade flag football team against a professional team and telling them "You shouldn't have played football if you didn't want to play against the big league. You should play a safer game, like golf."

Except we don't tell them that, because that would make us jerks to say such a thing. And the same thing applies to WoW, because the power gap between lowbies and a 90 is even greater than the power gap between a third grader and a professional football player. With such large gaps, we put them in different leagues, because it keeps the sports competitive. We don't allow people with large gaps in skill to play against each other. We do, however, allow people with small gaps in skill to play against each other. There are some football teams that pretty much never win, but they do have a chance. Thus, they are in league together. They need to up their game, or continue losing. You can't tell a third grader to up their game when faced with the insurmountable power of a trained adult.

If the WoW power gaps were like they were in Vanilla, I'd be fine with it, because those were actually reasonable (a 60 had roughly double the health of a 30-40). Now a 90 has roughly 100 times the health of a 30-40. The scaling is great fun for PvE content, but it absolutely ruins PvP.

[Deleted]

Bull****. In WoW you can play BGs if you play smart when undergeared. Skulk around. Play with the team according to their strengths. Don't pick fights you can't win. Play smart. Stay back until you know the time is right for some undergeared action. Help CC/stun and help the team win. Find people in similar situations to team up with. Make friends. It's a MMO, not a single-player game. Help people out.

If you really think you're gonna be able to just rush in alone all rambo-ninja-like and be successful with zero pvp gear, you're bloody stupid. Learn. To. Play. The game. That includes knowing when to fight, not just what buttons to push in the right order.

Or you can just whine and complain about it. Your call. But it seems you've already made the decision to cry and whine instead of actually learning to play smart. In Classic vanilla I got murdered in BGs, until I found a Thunderfury warrior and started hanging back and healing from max range as feral. It was fun and got me honor til I could get some stuff. If you're a melee class just focus on stuns and CC's, then get the hell out and bandage. Or pay someone to heal you. Or cry about it.

All your suggestions are part of what any player worth their salt player would do. It is part of any kind of strategic warfare: "don't rambo", "use all the tools you have", "use your strengths". It will only work with incredibly dumb enemies, and if you're incredibly lucky, and if your team is communicating well in a random BG (haha). If the enemy wants to, they make you completely useless. By the way it can be very tactical to pick a fight you cannot win. If you're going to be on defense in AB for example, you will be completely and utterly useless, but if you're the last person who leaves you're a moron, and if your team even reads what you write you're lucky.

[Drfireburns]

The problem is, the difference is absolutely insurmountable. In order for a level 30 to defeat a level 90, they would have to be AFK for a very long time. Aside from that, the 90 just needs to right click for a single swing to win. This isn't like putting you against a better band in Battle of the Bands. As I said before, this is like putting a third grade flag football team against a professional team and telling them "You shouldn't have played football if you didn't want to play against the big league. You should play a safer game, like golf."

Except we don't tell them that, because that would make us jerks to say such a thing. And the same thing applies to WoW, because the power gap between lowbies and a 90 is even greater than the power gap between a third grader and a professional football player. With such large gaps, we put them in different leagues, because it keeps the sports competitive. We don't allow people with large gaps in skill to play against each other. We do, however, allow people with small gaps in skill to play against each other. There are some football teams that pretty much never win, but they do have a chance. Thus, they are in league together. They need to up their game, or continue losing. You can't tell a third grader to up their game when faced with the insurmountable power of a trained adult.

If the WoW power gaps were like they were in Vanilla, I'd be fine with it, because those were actually reasonable (a 60 had roughly double the health of a 30-40). Now a 90 has roughly 100 times the health of a 30-40. The scaling is great fun for PvE content, but it absolutely ruins PvP.

So again, don't play on a PVP server if you're that concerned with it.

To the people complaining about this; let me ask you something. Would you go up to the biggest kid at your school or jail for example, punch him in the face and expect to not get punched back? Would you say it isn't fair that he's bigger than you and shouldn't hit back? It's the same concept. You're going against someone bigger and more powerful than you, so of course they are going to win. If you want to be safe and not worry about it, then don't mess with them (IE don't roll on PVP) and play it safe. Just quit complaining at something that's been this way since day one. It isn't going to change.