Really?
Sounds more like you are blaming CRZ for PvP realms being out of control. Let's try this one on for size. Let's say CRZ is never introduced. Instead, another popular PvP MMO fails and every player runs over and rolls on a PvP server in Wow. Now every PvP server gets 100 new players. They spend all their time grinding to 90 just to grief lowbies. HOW the world gets repopulated should not be an issue. The FACT of the matter is the mechanics of PVP worlds have always allowed ganking, regardless of taking advantage of any glitches. This will NEVER change, and I, for one, hope it doesn't. I have my PvE realm for questing and raiding, and my PvP realm for all out world murdering. If people don't like what happens on a PvP realm, maybe they should just pack up their feminine products and move over to PvE.
If people are in this thread arguing about pvp servers, and don't play on pvp servers, they need to get out of the discussion. I don't show up to their raids or instances and try to say we should have pvp in their precious on-rails linear pve experience.
Incidentally there have been some instances of raidIDs becoming cross-faction, but that was a long time ago and many laughs were had.
No sir no sir, you shouldnt try tot use logic with him.
It will make his skin burn and then he will have to go back into shadows to survive..
In the meantime .. i wonder how many here are looking for his alts to perm gank if he is on a pvp server :P.
Pro CRZ all the time.
Hell i have been ganked just 2 days ago, and then killed about 10 hordes in 10mins .. its life .
I.e., you've been griping a lot and you're rationalizing your griping by calling other people's arguments "poor", as well as calling your opinions "facts."
Example:
All PVE players are flower-sniffing bunny-loving keyboard turning mouthbreathers who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. It's a fact and you can't dispute it x100 times more than you can say no takebacks.
Last edited by coldbear; 2012-12-21 at 03:57 PM.
A cogent basis for argument (facts) is not an argument itself.
Though it can be, if accepting those facts leads to an inevitable conclusion. Of course what you are doing is working backwards from that inevitable conclusion and then making the leap that it must be my personal position. (and then you are proceeding on that assumption.)
Whatever.
Facts are -
blizzard radically changed the game environment after 8 years.
you change stuff in a radical way, expect unhappy people.
people tend to assume tomorrow will look a lot like today, especially in the absence of any other data.
nowt wrong with any of this.
Definition of FACT: Dictionary Definition of FACT
Those are OPINIONS of one person. Stop trying to mess up the World PvP we have finally been waiting for and go to a PvE realm if it bugs you so much. Go open a ticket and beg Blizz to let you move for free. Who knows? They might do it. But stop confusing OPINION with FACT.
Neither of those quotes are opinions.
CRZ removed the idea of a discrete server to pvp on - fact.
CRZ is a massive change to world pvp - also a fact.
---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 04:04 PM ----------
You are paying for whatever blizzard gives, it's right there in the ToS.
This sort of reasoning is 100% bogus. Having clicked "yes" on the ToS doesn't mean one has any obligation to refrain from complaining about any aspect of the game. Nor is complaining an indication that you, Mongo4200, are at fault for anything.
Customers have an inalienable right to define what will or will not satisfy them. All the design intentions, ToS forms, tacit agreements, developer definitions or warnings will not change this. The CRZ change pissed off a substantial number of people, and all the legalistic BS doesn't remove that unhappiness.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
If this something is in an unwanted state without a possible fix available at the time then I would rather expect it to change once there is a reasonable way to correct it. It was clear that the intended behaviour and experience differed from the then current state.
One could use a similar argument against account-wide mounts to claim that they shouldn't have been implemented because people already had doubles of certain mounts and the implementation merged those into a single one and they couldn't possibly expect that. While this is an argument of note and steps should in general be taken to make the changes more smooth to the players, the concept of "It shouldn't change because it's been like that forever" is faulty and halts progression.
Similar arguments have been used by both sides. I think that it is a valid one when talking about the foundations of a design. Beyond that it is something to be taken into account but should not be an remarkable obstacle to improvements.
I disagree. Policy is what everything is to be paralleled with, including practice.
My arguments are really only against changes being done to the PvP realms in order to make them more like PvE realms. They don't have an obligation to do so, but if the company decides the take action in order to aid the players with issues to relocate, I don't see myself having a reason to object that. That is someone else's war.
This said environment has gone through radical changes on multiple occasions. It would be even more radical for it not to in an MMORPG.
Yes, that is always the case with everything.
This is true and often valid. In the case of CRZ there was not an absence of data to inform people that the intented state differed from the state at the time. That is quite the reason to expect a change in the future.
I also expect changes to the concept and practice of a realm in the future, even if not so near, due to dying and unbalanced (faction) populations,
Last edited by Keoren; 2012-12-21 at 04:24 PM.
I've absolutely no need to.
The TOS says blizzard can provide you with absolutely anything they want to. So, for definitions we have to look at how things actually operated.
For 8 years, pvp servers were discrete, in fact all servers were discrete, pve, RP, RPVPV, whatever. This is also a fact. Blizzard defined what a pvp server was by their repeated actions.