Former Nazi SS guard fights deportation.

[Deleted]

Ahahahah man your idea of "liberation" is peculiar.
I like how you "liberated" Korea. You've done a pretty good job.
Of course, you weren't following the nonsensical guidelines of the Cold War, no. You were clearly acting in the interest if the people. Like nicaragua. And they acknowledge that and love you very much for it.
Or how you liberated Vietnam (lol), Libya (lol), Sierra Leone (lol), Egypt (ahah this one is hilarious), CUBA HOW CAN YOU MENTION CUBA AFTER ALL YOU'VE DONE AND YOU'RE DOING TO THEM, South America (good job the world is impressed) actually you know what.
I was going into details, but I don't think it's worth it. You are delirious. America has done lots of amazing things for the world but NONE of what you mentioned.
Just... If you don't want to read abou them... Wikipedia them Jesus how lazy can you be.

I think he forgot about the millions of 'Indians" the americans 'Liberated' after taking their land

[Gilian]

Would you have?

Or would you have simply gone along with the regime for fear of your own life?

I think most people say they'd liberate the camp, but most would simply try to survive. Being a nazi is startlingly not a black and white concept, especially for conscripts.

Easy to talk on a forum and say "I would have died trying". There is not much reason to attempt to liberate them when the only outcome is you dieing. If there was any real way to liberate those people, without the allies defeating the german army, with a decent chance to succeed then people would have tried it.
On the other hand I don't think I could have lived with knowing I was guarding a camp where thousands if not tens of thousands of human beings got slaughtered.

Anyway, I think he deserves it. Every war criminal will deny he didn't care that thousands of people got murdered on their watch. You can't really take his word on it. I can't imagine how hard it is to prosecute these war criminals for crimes commited 50 years ago in such a horrible hectic time.

[Kalyyn]

Im sure he will have a blast to demonstrate that he was forced to be a guard at a nazi camp. Will he quote his dead superior or even Hitler? Also is still funny what for US visa you are still asked if you were in Germany between 1940-1945 even if you are 25 years old. Guess the guy didn't get the question in 1950 when he moved to US.

Well there was awhile there were we were actually helping former nazis escape from Germany because the Russians were just hunting them down and slaughtering them.

[Skorpionss]

You do realize that if the Allies had lost the war, the exact same thing would've happened to bomber pilots and people working in Japanese labour camps? History is written by the victor, let the old man be.

also a lot of this ...

[satimy]

The Nuremberg trials were a joke. We will never know the horrors of what happened during the world wars. Let this guy die and face his makers in peace.

[Kalyyn]

Wrong place, wrong time?

I understand said circumstances, but imagine this similar scenario: You're kidnapped and taken somewhere far away. Upon removing the blindfold (that I didn't mention), you see a man holding a gun to your family, all of which are tied up and would easily die to this man. They (said kidnappers) give you two options: A. Die with your family or B. Go and kill hundreds of innocent people with them (and they'll be watching you the ENTIRE TIME).

Whichever side you choose, you're hurting innocent people. While I understand the scenario sucks, it's essentially the same for this guy. You can't just escape your crimes regardless of how you were brought into this whether you wanted to or not.

Like I'm not really sure what to say. Sure, you could say I'm biased (both my dad's parents were in the Holocaust and they both survived... physically. They're known as my "insane grandparents"), but I do acknowledge that he may have done it out of fear (if that truly is the case, then he has some of my sympathies), but all I can really say is: "life sucks and isn't ever fair". You can't escape your crimes.

I literally cannot fathom this logic. You acknowledge that he had no choice in the matter, but you still want to punish him? At that point, it's just cruelty for the sake of cruelty...

[Polarthief]

Would you have?

Or would you have simply gone along with the regime for fear of your own life?

I think most people say they'd liberate the camp, but most would simply try to survive. Being a nazi is startlingly not a black and white concept, especially for conscripts.

I'd say it completely depends from person to person. If no one blindly followed a dictator in the first place, this never would have happened.

Leaders don't just come into power by nothing, they come into power because enough people followed them.

If that's too much to handle for some people: Imagine your favorite (and very famous) Internet video uploaders (for example: James Rolfe of AVGN/Cinemassacre). They didn't just one day become super-famous, it's because they had enough subscribers (followers) and people who liked their content (ideas) and wanted to see more of them (wanted to see them come to fruition). It's the same idea, just on a different scale. Say no one ever watched any AVGN/Cinemassare videos. Would James Rolfe be nearly as famous and well known as he is today? Of course not. Would he still be around? Probably, just no one would know of him. Hitler (and other leaders of power) basically were/are in the same scenario. They started small, had ideas that others apparently agreed with, and boom. They were put in a place of power.

[Bakis]

Funny how Von Braun who was a true nazi war criminal ended up heading the US space program eventually leading to the moon landing ;o
Everything is not always in black & white.

[Polarthief]

I literally cannot fathom this logic. You acknowledge that he had no choice in the matter, but you still want to punish him? At that point, it's just cruelty for the sake of cruelty...

I understand and acknowledge he MAY have had no choice in the matter (you can't prove this; if he SAYS he doesn't, keep in mind he could be lying), but regardless, he's killed innocent victims who had even less of a choice in the matter. While I don't think he should be tortured or even executed for his crimes, he shouldn't just be given free reign to get away with it.

Basically, regardless of a crime, I can't see people just getting away with it.

[Priestiality]

Wrong place, wrong time?

I understand said circumstances, but imagine this similar scenario: You're kidnapped and taken somewhere far away. Upon removing the blindfold (that I didn't mention), you see a man holding a gun to your family, all of which are tied up and would easily die to this man. They (said kidnappers) give you two options: A. Die with your family or B. Go and kill hundreds of innocent people with them (and they'll be watching you the ENTIRE TIME).

Whichever side you choose, you're hurting innocent people. While I understand the scenario sucks, it's essentially the same for this guy. You can't just escape your crimes regardless of how you were brought into this whether you wanted to or not.

Like I'm not really sure what to say. Sure, you could say I'm biased (both my dad's parents were in the Holocaust and they both survived... physically. They're known as my "insane grandparents"), but I do acknowledge that he may have done it out of fear (if that truly is the case, then he has some of my sympathies), but all I can really say is: "life sucks and isn't ever fair". You can't escape your crimes.

It's not the same. He wasn't the gas chamber guy. He wasn't the crematorium guy. He was a guard. A nobody on the totem pole. According to him he never personally killed anyone, he's remorseful, he's 88 years old and has children and grand children and probably great grandchildren. He may or may not have made a choice at the tender young age of 17. Whether he began his service willfully or not, he was ultimately left with a choice of "listen to us or we kill your family". You make a rather ludicrous example, but I'll humor you. I would kill the innocents. So would you. So would Psyopz. So would literally anyone on this planet. As I've stated before, it's really easy to take the moral high road in 2012. It's a different story. And again as I've pointed out. There were over 15,000 camps in Europe, with ~6million killed, some of which weren't actually killed in the camps. He worked at 2 during his tenure. While we know that certain camps were worse than others, (Auschwitz for example), the average killed per camp was 400, and that's before factoring in the hundreds that were killed in the ghettos and never even made it to the camps. Even if he literally murdered one person per day, it's unlikely his personal death toll would reach "hundreds".

Clarity edit: And that's 400 over the entire course of the war, which he was only involved in for 3 years. SO that would be an average of 67 per camp per year. At best he was only even considered a soldier for the deaths of 200 people. Obviously these numbers are skewed due to Germany ramping up the murder rates as they realized the war was coming to an end, but still. One man, out of likely dozens that were stationed at the camp at one time or another, and you want the mans blood. How far humanity as come...

[Beat5beat]

If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences.

Sure you would have. Easy to talk now 70 years later, when you aren't in his situation and never will be. Guess how many rambo Nazi guards liberating concentration camps there were? Although judging by your extreme reaction to this old man, I would wager you would have been one of the more easily manipulated citizens.

[Kalyyn]

Funny how Von Braun who was a true nazi war criminal ended up heading the US space program eventually leading to the moon landing ;o

That's what I said! Nobody cares... I mean, we already set a precedent when we put a nazi in charge of a massive government organization. I'm pretty sure letting some random rank-and-file SS grunt live out his retirement in Virginia isn't going to lower the bar any more.

What these people don't realize is that it could be their parents and grandparents being hunted like this. We all have family members who fought in the war. Who's to say that some assholes wouldn't be trying to put them in prison for serving their country when they're simply trying to finish their life in peace, had Germany won?

Shit happens in war. I say punish the worst of the worst, and leave everyone else alone.

[Polarthief]

It's not the same. He wasn't the gas chamber guy. He wasn't the crematorium guy. He was a guard. A nobody on the totem pole. According to him he never personally killed anyone, he's remorseful, he's 88 years old and has children and grand children and probably great grandchildren. He may or may not have made a choice at the tender young age of 17. Whether he began his service willfully or not, he was ultimately left with a choice of "listen to us or we kill your family".

How can anyone prove if he's killed someone or not?

------- While we know that certain camps were worse than others, (Auschwitz for example), the average killed per camp was 400, and that's before factoring in the hundreds that were killed in the ghettos and never even made it to the camps. Even if he literally murdered one person per day, it's unlikely his personal death toll would reach "hundreds".

That's still justifying killing innocents though.

[Gilian]

I'd say it completely depends from person to person. If no one blindly followed a dictator in the first place, this never would have happened.

Leaders don't just come into power by nothing, they come into power because enough people followed them.

If that's too much to handle for some people: Imagine your favorite (and very famous) Internet video uploaders (for example: James Rolfe of AVGN/Cinemassacre). They didn't just one day become super-famous, it's because they had enough subscribers (followers) and people who liked their content (ideas) and wanted to see more of them (wanted to see them come to fruition). It's the same idea, just on a different scale. Say no one ever watched any AVGN/Cinemassare videos. Would James Rolfe be nearly as famous and well known as he is today? Of course not. Would he still be around? Probably, just no one would know of him. Hitler (and other leaders of power) basically were/are in the same scenario. They started small, had ideas that others apparently agreed with, and boom. They were put in a place of power.

Are you seriously comparing Hitler to some youtuber? It's really not that black and white.

[Polarthief]

Sure you would have. Easy to talk now 70 years later, when you aren't in his situation and never will be. Guess how many rambo Nazi guards liberating concentration camps there were? Although judging by your extreme reaction to this old man, I would wager you would have been one of the more easily manipulated citizens.

Psyops would have instantly been all "OMG HITLER?! I LOVE THAT GUY!!!" if asked back then.

[Polarthief]

Are you seriously comparing Hitler to some youtuber? It's really not that black and white.

I never said it was (also James Rolfe isn't "some youtuber", but you got the idea). I said the scenario of how people come into power/become famous is the same ideals.

Are you telling me that Hitler was instantly born powerful? That since the day he was born, he was already ruling shit?

When he got to a certain point, I'm well aware he had followers that didn't really want to follow him, but it STARTED with people following him blindly. Yes, there WERE people who had it black and white of "agree" or "disagree". When too many people "agreed", THEN it became a gray area, as it does with many dictators.

[Seranthor]

That's what I said! Nobody cares... I mean, we already set a precedent when we put a nazi in charge of a massive government organization. I'm pretty sure letting some random rank-and-file SS grunt live out his retirement in Virginia isn't going to lower the bar any more.

What these people don't realize is that it could be their parents and grandparents being hunted like this. We all have family members who fought in the war. Who's to say that some assholes wouldn't be trying to put them in prison for serving their country when they're simply trying to finish their life in peace, had Germany won?

Shit happens in war. I say punish the worst of the worst, and leave everyone else alone.

But, but, but, he MUST be still an evil killer... I mean he's 88 years old now, how can he still be alive unless he's been saving vials of blood of the victims from the camps and he's using the blood to prolong his life... so we must act, of course without any evidence, just the fact that he's old and was there.

/sarcasm OFF

[LolretKJ]

Holy fuck is this thread still going on?
Did anyone get a counter on how many times Psy has said justice btw?

[Priestiality]

How can anyone prove if he's killed someone or not?

They can't, which is precisely why it's stupid to put an 88 year old man on trial for something he already feels remorse for when it cannot be proven.

That's still justifying killing innocents though.

No, I was pointing out how, in your example, you said I would have to kill "hundreds". That would put me miles ahead of this guy, and most other Nazi's that weren't officers.

[Polarthief]

Holy fuck is this thread still going on?
Did anyone get a counter on how many times Psy has said justice btw?

Or used the term "liberate" (or any other form of the word) incorrectly? Or any of his other silly/nonsensical comments (like how he would have swooped in and saved a ton of the camps)?

Too high to count.