Next Champion: Vi, The Piltover Enforcer

[Xanjori]

Straight up for survivability Randiuns will trump Warmogs by a long long way. When you have good gap closers like Vi does too and can stick to an AD and use the on-use effect of Randiuns it probably doubles the survivability offered by a Warmogs.

Also pure health will be not great when BotRK is a very very good health shred item now, Id imagine most ADs would happily trade BT for BotRK if you've just stacked HP and have no Randiuns/FH and you'll be gone pretty quickly, Randiuns also doubly scary for them as when they shoot you they lose some movement speed, and thats really quite important to an AD.

[Vespian]

Straight up for survivability Randiuns will trump Warmogs by a long long way. When you have good gap closers like Vi does too and can stick to an AD and use the on-use effect of Randiuns it probably doubles the survivability offered by a Warmogs.

Also pure health will be not great when BotRK is a very very good health shred item now, Id imagine most ADs would happily trade BT for BotRK if you've just stacked HP and have no Randiuns/FH and you'll be gone pretty quickly, Randiuns also doubly scary for them as when they shoot you they lose some movement speed, and thats really quite important to an AD.

Ah but see, with this I can agree. Once more, I didn't say Morg is the only choice. I just don't like GA. Every time I die and there's 4 guys standing on top of my corpse waiting, I feel dirty.

[NotValidAnymore]

You misunderstood. I don't. Never said I do. But in the context of Vi, I think GA is not as good. You would have known that if you had taken the time to read all of it. But I guess tldr.

I did read all of it. I still don't think a second Warmogs is worth it. I would rather bolster my already good amount of health with more armor and MR, and providing a chance to resurrect and the enemy with a dilemma, than just adding a chunk of 1000 health. One Warmogs is hella good though. It's a good item.

However, if I'm going to be honest, I would probably take something else than either of those two. That is to say, I'd take one Warmog, then take something else later. I just don't like stacking items, and usually I'm forced to build some team support/utility since people are stupid. Randuins is perfect for this, for example.

On Vi ganking; you can't always have every jungler being made to be able to CC a laner to death. Her Q is decent enough. Once you get a Phage/Mallet, there shouldn't be a problem. In my opinion, saying her ganks are worse than Shyvana is just being silly, unless you count her dragon form.

[Kurdiern]

Ah but see, with this I can agree. Once more, I didn't say Morg is the only choice. I just don't like GA. Every time I die and there's 4 guys standing on top of my corpse waiting, I feel dirty.

If you're getting into Fights that end with you losing that hard, the problem isn't GA, it's you and your team.

[Vespian]

If you're getting into Fights that end with you losing that hard, the problem isn't GA, it's you and your team.

Obviously. I'm exaggerating to emphasize how much I dislike it.

On Vi ganking; you can't always have every jungler being made to be able to CC a laner to death. Her Q is decent enough. Once you get a Phage/Mallet, there shouldn't be a problem. In my opinion, saying her ganks are worse than Shyvana is just being silly, unless you count her dragon form.

I didn't say that :P I said her ganks are better. [inserts some random remark about reading]

[Rampant Rabbit]

Ah but see, with this I can agree. Once more, I didn't say Morg is the only choice. I just don't like GA. Every time I die and there's 4 guys standing on top of my corpse waiting, I feel dirty.

What's your point here? You'd be dead in that same situation with your bulk hp from that 2nd Warmog's anyway.

With the GA you have to possibility to unfuck your fuck up by getting back up from your team. Maybe not in a situation where 4 people jumped you, that's your stupid mistake for getting caught, but like I said, dead is dead. Proccing your GA means the enemy wil have to wait for your GA to take effect and revive you, and take another 30% of your hp down. Before all that happens your team could be there to back you up already.

[Vespian]

What's your point here? You'd be dead in that same situation with your bulk hp from that 2nd Warmog's anyway.

With the GA you have to possibility to unfuck your fuck up by getting back up from your team. Maybe not in a situation where 4 people jumped you, that's your stupid mistake for getting caught, but like I said, dead is dead. Proccing your GA means the enemy wil have to wait for your GA to take effect and revive you, and take another 30% of your hp down. Before all that happens your team could be there to back you up already.

Horse.Beat.Dead.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Horse.Beat.Dead.

No counter argument?

[Vespian]

No counter argument?

Yeah, that's the dead horse. It's dead. Actually, it's decaying two pages back. That was when you consequently ignored the fact that it's on a 5min CD, doesn't proc at will, has a delay, doesn't help your teammates by being dead 2 seconds after the engage. And it doesn't buff her passive by more than 120.

I already gave a full analysis of the damn thing two pages back. Stop sticking your head up your ass and read. If you want it, grab it early game, where it's still useful. Or on some specific champs, that can actually come back from the dead in the most literal sense of the word. But Vi is not that champ.

- Her Q can be interrupted and ends up on CD.
- Her ult should be on CD if you're dead.
- Her W relies on prolonged hitting. The initial 2 seconds she's a slow hitter, unless you built her full ias.

Only her E has any real punching power the first two seconds. But she is not Darius. She cannot just get up, ult left and right and laugh. Darius, is a champ I would build it on.

You have no escapes, no actual burst, unless you built glass cannon.

GA is not better than another Warmogs on Vi. Whether Warmogs is the best choice is another matter.

And you bloody lured me into repeating myself again, but this time less detailed, so no doubt this is the moment you will actually reply, because there are holes in it. I should have known you were a troll the moment I saw that chinface.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Yeah, that's the dead horse. It's dead. Actually, it's decaying two pages back. That was when you consequently ignored the fact that it's on a 5min CD, doesn't proc at will, has a delay, doesn't help your teammates by being dead 2 seconds after the engage. And it doesn't buff her passive by more than 120.

Not every item has to comply to your passive. You're already beefy enough with your current health items, and a GA is a great item for late game.

I haven't been ignoring anything you said, I simply disagree and think they're moot points to say that GA is overrated in your opinion, and not pick it up.


Edit: Why so hostile man? Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I have my head stuck up my ass. You must a great person to converse with. Calling me a troll? Hilarious.

[Vespian]

Not every item has to comply to your passive. You're already beefy enough with your current health items, and a GA is a great item for late game.

I haven't been ignoring anything you said, I simply disagree and think they're moot points to say that GA is overrated in your opinion, and not pick it up.

I sustained my opinion with pretty clear facts. Even some basic math. I'm not the one pursuing this discussion. You are.

I'm not hostile. I write like this.

[Rampant Rabbit]

I sustained my opinion with pretty clear facts. Even some basic math. I'm not the one pursuing this discussion. You are.

I'm not hostile. I write like this.

Then you write in a hostile manner. This awkward fact doesn't make it any less acceptable that you can't seem to hold your emotions together in a simple discussion where two parties disagree. Get it together man.

Also, I sustained my opinion with pretty clear facts as well. What's your fucking point man? I already agreed with the facts that you stated on her passive. That doesn't mean every item in your build should consist of health.

[Vespian]

Then you write in a hostile manner. This awkward fact doesn't make it any less acceptable that you can't seem to hold your emotions together in a simple discussion where two parties disagree. Get it together man.

Also, I sustained my opinion with pretty clear facts as well. What's your fucking point man? I already agreed with the facts that you stated on her passive. That doesn't mean every item in your build should consist of health.

Right, your facts were; There is a chance that you have a chance that they chance your chance.

GA is great, just not on Vi. Capiche ?:P

I'll repeat;

Games last an avg. of, what? 30 minutes? In that period most people won't have maximum builds. You'll have to replace an early item with it to be useful.
Vi has nothing, that makes her more lethal because of GA. Coming back, even midfight, she will just be another kill. Q can be interrupted, W needs successive hits. E hasn't been charged yet when you res and your ult should be on CD.

[Xanjori]

Right, your facts were; There is a chance that you have a chance that they chance your chance.

GA is great, just not on Vi. Capiche ?:P

Not even sure how you can put 1k HP above the chance to ress with 30% HP (which btw with your build is about 1k) alongside the armour and MR and the fact in team fights its huge.

Im not even sure how you ever came to the idea that a second warmogs would ever be any good on any champion ever in LoL.

[Vespian]

Not even sure how you can put 1k HP above the chance to ress with 30% HP (which btw with your build is about 1k) alongside the armour and MR and the fact in team fights its huge.

Im not even sure how you ever came to the idea that a second warmogs would ever be any good on any champion ever in LoL.

Good job on reading my posts two pages back (this refers to the bolded part). I think two Warmogs don't have to be bad. I've seen Voli build 4, completely indestructible. Regens 6% of 6+K hp per 5 seconds. You need to get rid of the idea that I think WM is the best choice period (stated before also). GA is just not a good pick on Vi. What are you going to do?

You can only catch up to other champs if you use your flash. Your Q is only good against people that aren't running away from you. Your W needs several hits. Your E isn't fully charged yet. Most bruisers that build GA make short work of you. You're better off living longer, or dealing more damage in the same time. GA on Vi is like arriving late to a 4v5 teamfight.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Right, your facts were; There is a chance that you have a chance that they chance your chance.

GA is great, just not on Vi. Capiche ?:P

Rofl. Why wouldn't it be? GA is a great item for any champion be it mid (once you have an advantage) or late game.

You keep thinking I ignore all the facts that you state, yet you completely disregard my responses with "CHANCES THIS CHANCES THAT 50/50". You don't seem to realize how strong and game changing this item can be on ANY champion. Especially late game where you cannot afford to die. These events might be situational, but will also be crucial game changing moments.

Facts alone won't win you the game. It's like saying that the composition of a team is perfect, so on PAPER they should win. I think it's save to say it doesn't always work out that way.

[Kurdiern]

Not even sure how you can put 1k HP above the chance to ress with 30% HP (which btw with your build is about 1k) alongside the armour and MR and the fact in team fights its huge.

Im not even sure how you ever came to the idea that a second warmogs would ever be any good on any champion ever in LoL.

He recently hit 30 and still plays a majority of his games against bots. Just saying.

[Vespian]

He recently hit 30 and still plays a majority of his games against bots. Just saying.

That's simply false. And unfair. I've had a yellow ribbon since lvl 20. I've played Leona between 1-20 and play(ed) her very well. I only play bot games on new champions. Between 20 and 29 I've had many excellent team comps, great team mates, perfect cooperation. When I started playing at lvl 30, I've had the worst of the worst. Ended up constantly losing, due to people changing picks the last second, dual junglers, people instalocking a champion they sucked with. Afkers, leavers, rude people, skillless people. chasers, divers, people that didn't know where they were supposed to go. People that only spoke spanish.

I had a 50/50 win/loss rate before I turned 30. Now I'm at 143/159 matches.

I just decided to test my item builds in bot games more often, instead of real games, because when I test things I can't compensate for others.

Please don't be toxic. And yes, I am pretty pissed off with most of my losses. Last night was a reasonable match though. See replay. That is, if you really want to comment on me.

Rofl. Why wouldn't it be? GA is a great item for any champion be it mid (once you have an advantage) or late game.

You keep thinking I ignore all the facts that you state, yet you completely disregard my responses with "CHANCES THIS CHANCES THAT 50/50". You don't seem to realize how strong and game changing this item can be on ANY champion. Especially late game where you cannot afford to die. These events might be situational, but will also be crucial game changing moments.

Facts alone won't win you the game. It's like saying that the composition of a team is perfect, so on PAPER they should win. I think it's save to say it doesn't always work out that way.

And now we're back at the core of the issue. We need to agree to disagree, because GA is bad on her in my humble but supported by facts opinion. Unless, once more, the entire team picks them up. So let's just do that. Agree to disagree.

[NotValidAnymore]

I didn't say that :P I said her ganks are better. [inserts some random remark about reading]

I know you and Rabbit are in the spotlight right now, but I wasn't referring to what you said. Sorry. :P

I referred to this part by Axethor:

Oh yeah, and I like her in the jungle. Decent speed, ganks are bad though, worse than Shyvana, Darius, or pre-6 Diana. You lanes need some kind of CC if they want a kill.

I can see how she could be worse than Darius (since he has the pull) and Diana (because of the Q and E) but how the hell does she get worse than Shyvana who has no CC at all?

Yeah, Shyvana can run fast, but I don't see any situation where that would be any better than Vi's Q. If they're far away from the brush, Vi is gonna have problems hitting her Q, but Shyvana isn't gonna be able to run up and hit people either.

EDIT: Also, could we please drop the attitude with the posts here? Right now, it's like everyone's trying to taunt each other with each post. It's not hard to formulate yourself in a proper manner.

[Xanjori]

You can only catch up to other champs if you use your flash. Your Q is only good against people that aren't running away from you. Your W needs several hits. Your E isn't fully charged yet. Most bruisers that build GA make short work of you. You're better off living longer, or dealing more damage in the same time. GA on Vi is like arriving late to a 4v5 teamfight.

And then Eve walks up with a DFG. But DFGs on there own are gonna cause you so much issues, ADs will be critting 800+ on you, what is 6k HP gonna do when someone like Kog/Vayne can take you down in 5 shots?

GA buys time, also think of it as removing all debuffs. With Double Warmogs you can spend your entire HP stunned/exhausted, GA gaurentees that you come back into a teamfight with no debuffs. Look at M5 when they play and how quick they build those GAs and what effects they can have on a game, its the exact same reason Zilean can be ridiculously strong in a game, the ability to dive without fear of dying and force the enemy to blow important CDs has a huge impact on how a fight is going, if you dont have the GA you'll just eat every ability and leave your team 4v5.