Necromancer Hero Class Ideas

[-Superman-]

While we can finally play with a REAL Necromancer in WoW, I do not care if it's a hero class or a regular class sincerely ...

I would be on board with this. I think the coin term "Hero" should just be removed from any recommendations. I think most people don't mind the idea of a new class, but DREAD the idea that it would start at 55+ like the DK. We don't need another hero... we just want to find the way home.

[Shahad]

well I play holy priest and there is nothing reactive on it. what it is is a very careful and conscious spec that u need to think before using skills. in raids that specifically required it, the animation spec would need to control pets to follow players which would be an option in the pets action bar. I don't see how this is a problem.

Holy priest's niche is burst reactive healing. They heal after the damage has happened, that's what reactive means. Discipline, for instance, is a master of proactive healing. The shields heal before the damage happened. Resto is about Heal over Time effects, Monk is a channeled spell and chi-limited erruptions from their one HoT(which makes it a burst healer too), etc. What exactly does your shadow healing spec bring to the table that the current specs don't? Apart from "LOL U STUPID? I ALREADY SAYD IT HEALS WITH TEH PETS!"
And I would like to add that in many cases pets are a liability in a raid. There are many encounters were pets bug/despawn, without mentioning that you'd have to move the pet to your healing target to heal them. With pet AI being what it is, that would be tedious at best. Not to mention that a fight were you're raid healing and all the raid is spread out would be hell.

again, ur just trying to narrow the playstyles with no clear purpose on mind. spriest has a shadowform yes but shamans have a wolf form and worgens have it and druids have animal forms, yet each one has its own dynamic and flavour. ascendance shadow form goes beyond where the spriest's form goes. I based it off THIS if u care to read.

No one gives a rat's ass about the other classes' forms. Shadow priest's Shadowform is thematically too similar to your Ascendant shadowform. The design space just doesn't exist because priests already occupy it. It's the same thing for Demon Hunters. The reason they aren't in the game is because too much of their lore is included into Demonology Warlocks, making them redundant. Same thing with Blademasters. And many other potential classes. Plus, lorewise nearly all Shadow Priests are Forsaken, which means that they follow the Forgotten Shadow cult. This inturn means that the page you linked DESCRIBES FORSAKEN SHADOW PRIESTS. So, again, completely redundant.

[Deleted]

Holy priest's niche is burst reactive healing. They heal after the damage has happened, that's what reactive means. Discipline, for instance, is a master of proactive healing. The shields heal before the damage happened. Resto is about Heal over Time effects, Monk is a channeled spell and chi-limited erruptions from their one HoT(which makes it a burst healer too), etc. What exactly does your shadow healing spec bring to the table that the current specs don't? Apart from "LOL U STUPID? I ALREADY SAYD IT HEALS WITH TEH PETS!"

I said it heals from reactive heals based on the attackers attacks. each attack suffered by an ally under a healing spell will will bring with it negative effects that need to be dumped, mainly on pets. its not hard to understand.

And I would like to add that in many cases pets are a liability in a raid. There are many encounters were pets bug/despawn, without mentioning that you'd have to move the pet to your healing target to heal them. With pet AI being what it is, that would be tedious at best. Not to mention that a fight were you're raid healing and all the raid is spread out would be hell.

pets would have a follow target ability, i said this before.

No one gives a rat's ass about the other classes' forms. Shadow priest's Shadowform is thematically too similar to your Ascendant shadowform. The design space just doesn't exist because priests already occupy it. It's the same thing for Demon Hunters. The reason they aren't in the game is because too much of their lore is included into Demonology Warlocks, making them redundant. Same thing with Blademasters. And many other potential classes. Plus, lorewise nearly all Shadow Priests are Forsaken, which means that they follow the Forgotten Shadow cult. This inturn means that the page you linked DESCRIBES FORSAKEN SHADOW PRIESTS. So, again, completely redundant.

ofc they don't care about animal shapeshifts & they don't do as well about shadowforms or w/e. only u do because u wanna lol. it just proves my point. and if u wanna go around nit picking lore then u must know that no where does it say that shadow form is exclusive to spriests nor that the cult of the forgotten shadow is composed only of spriests. And nor does it say that shadow ascendants are spriests. u see my point? plus ur comparison to demon hunters doesn't favour ur argument at all. I can bet u that we will a have a demon hunter class sooner rather than later.

[Verain]

Necromancers aren't a hero class. The necromancers in WCIII were also allied with the scourge. The Death Knight is really all you need here- if anything, the DK should have a caster spec (unholy could have been this) using Int plate, as Necromancers are casters, not warriors. I also really dislike your "ascendance" concept (that's not even what it means), and mechanically saying "doesn't work with haste" is just silly, and shows you aren't even taking it that seriously.

[Deleted]

HAHA again some kid gets a terrible idea then keeps defending it even though everyone tells him why it sucks.

[Xalzel]

Meh, DK 4th spec to use Caster Plate could cover this

[grisset]

DonQ, I've read all your class ideas. This is the best one, but it's still terrible... DKs and warlocks have the niche covered too well, just like Warlocks, rogues, and warriors have Demon Hunters covered.

[Shahad]

I said it heals from reactive heals based on the attackers attacks. each attack suffered by an ally under a healing spell will it but will bring negative effects with it that need to be dumped, mainly on pets. its not hard to understand.

I must apologize if I am not understanding you perfectly, but it would help if you could at least try to have sentences that made sense.
Now, what you mean is essentially a healer whose healing spells are all different flavors of Cenarion Ward that applies a a debuff on the friendly target. And you have no idea how this could be problematic?
Plus, that doesn't fill a niche at all. What is your animist supposed to be good at healing? Holy priests are burst AoE healers, Disc are proactive shielders, Resto druids are mass HoTers. Animist from your description is putting Cenarion Ward on people and then spending the rest of my time and mana ridding my raid of the crap I put on them, using a mechanic that barely works at all and is likely to randomly disappear during combat.

pets would have a follow target ability, i said this before.

Pets are inherently flawed because of their AI. They barely work for DPS specs and it would simply cripple the healing spec on some fights. It's a terrible design all around. Let's just say there's a reason Grimoire of Sacrifice is so popular.

ofc they don't care about animal shapeshifts & they don't do as well about shadowforms or w/e. only u do because u wanna lol. it just proves my point. and if u wanna go around nit picking lore then u must know that no where does it say that shadow form is exclusive to spriests nor that the cult of the forgotten shadow is composed only of spriests. And nor does it say that shadow ascendants are spriests. u see my point? plus ur comparison to demon hunters doesn't favour ur argument at all. I can bet u that we will a have a demon hunter class sooner rather than later.

This... "paragraph" barely makes any sense at all.
You can't compare druid forms to your Ascendant Shadowform because they have no relation at all. I'm comparing Shadowform because it's already in the game and it's at least very close to your Ascendant Shadowform. I raise a valid point and you just keep ignoring it.
Now, here is a quote from what YOU linked: "Shadow ascendants, obviously, are universally Forsaken. Ascendants come from all walks of life, but most are priests (though the occasional warrior or rogue may find ascension in the Forgotten Shadow)". Shadow ascendants=Shadow Priests as far as game mechanics are concerned.

[Deleted]

Ru seriously telling me u want Wow to copy yet another feature of GW2?

[Rinoa]

Personally I don't think it'd fit very well. It'd be too much of a DK/Lock mashup as someone mentioned. It'd just feel odd.

[Deleted]

I would be on board with this. I think the coin term "Hero" should just be removed from any recommendations. I think most people don't mind the idea of a new class, but DREAD the idea that it would start at 55+ like the DK. We don't need another hero... we just want to find the way home.

haha maybe I just don't like the idea of a single class being considered hero while all the others are just regular. Even if its just a coin term and brings no major advantage over the other classes I just felt like sharing the privilege with other classes. But ofc I don't care if it starts at lvl 1 or 55...

---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 10:36 AM ----------

Necromancers aren't a hero class. The necromancers in WCIII were also allied with the scourge. The Death Knight is really all you need here- if anything, the DK should have a caster spec (unholy could have been this) using Int plate, as Necromancers are casters, not warriors. I also really dislike your "ascendance" concept (that's not even what it means), and mechanically saying "doesn't work with haste" is just silly, and shows you aren't even taking it that seriously.

ok necromancers don't need to b a hero class, point taken, but I will not discuss how dks are different from necromancers again for I am tired of it. u said it urself, necromancers are casters not warriors so in order to create a caster spec on a warrior class woul take much more effort than just creating a new class.
and yes I am taking it serious with the no haste thing. I liked the concept of a class that had multiple cooldowns and could prepare the casting of spells beforehand. Just like rogues make no use of intellect, necromancers make no use of haste.

[Shahad]

ok necromancers don't need to b a hero class, point taken, but I will not discuss how dks are different from necromancers again for I am tired of it. u said it urself, necromancers are casters not warriors so in order to create a caster spec on a warrior class woul take much more effort than just creating a new class.
and yes I am taking it serious with the no haste thing. I liked the concept of a class that had multiple cooldowns and could prepare the casting of spells beforehand. Just like rogues make no use of intellect, necromancers make no use of haste.

The Unholy DK spec is a melee necromancer. There is no discussing this. And just how would making Unholy a caster spec be more difficult than implementing a new class? Have you no idea at all how game design works?
And having a class not scale with haste is the single most retarded thing I have ever heard. Makes all the gear with haste on it completely worthless to the class not to mention it hurts scaling.

[-Superman-]

haha maybe I just don't like the idea of a single class being considered hero while all the others are just regular. Even if its just a coin term and brings no major advantage over the other classes I just felt like sharing the privilege with other classes. But ofc I don't care if it starts at lvl 1 or 55...

That pretty much sums up your reasoning for creating 8 "hero-class" ideas and defending them til you are blue in the face. The fact of the matter is, in their own way, every class can be heroic. Honestly, I don't even think of DKs as a hero class. I would consider Paladins a true hero class. Tank/DPS/Heal, has a mount, has a bubble, casts magic, uses melee, is up close or short to med range with some spells, uses a shield, and is easily the one class that can truly solo dang near anything in the game (if geared and skilled correctly).

It's ok to want a new class, but of all of your suggestions, the better choice would be something that is ranged, uses mail, and has a Tank/DPS/DPS blend. Necromancer is pretty much covered by a Lock and a DK currently and would only "slightly" vary from them. Even the monk, that was supposed to feel new, just feels like a Rogue/Priest mash-up. Also, not to sound like a jerk, nor to offend, but it is unlikely Blizzard will pluck it's new class from a fan site from some random dude that has a lot of free time to sketch out these classes.

[Deleted]

"Hey guys, I know we just had this war on undead and you know, evil Sha tryin' to wreck the place, but my name is Bob and I pretty much raise corpses to do my dirty work for me. But it's okay. I'm a good Necromancer! My corpses are all like flowers and love and hippies and stuff, man."

Nope nope nope.

[Northem]

"Hey guys, I know we just had this war on undead and you know, evil Sha tryin' to wreck the place, but my name is Bob and I pretty much raise corpses to do my dirty work for me. But it's okay. I'm a good Necromancer! My corpses are all like flowers and love and hippies and stuff, man."

Nope nope nope.

Sometimes you have to use the tools more detestable to win.

[-Superman-]

"Hey guys, I know we just had this war on undead and you know, evil Sha tryin' to wreck the place, but my name is Bob and I pretty much raise corpses to do my dirty work for me. But it's okay. I'm a good Necromancer! My corpses are all like flowers and love and hippies and stuff, man."

This made me giggle. I think I relate a good necromancer to a good Shadow Priest. I mean, do people actually understand the removal of "the light" from their priest in order to commune with the dark energy and then still claim they are the "good guy"? lol Honestly, I don't think we need any more classes, unless they come from WC2 or WC3 and fill the remaining Class/Gear gap.

[Deleted]

Sometimes you have to use the tools more detestable to win.

Suppose that would work for Garrosh, but the Alliance? Not that I care -- I play Horde. Sure, give us a faction-only class and I'll be able to live with corpse-raising.

[Deleted]

I must apologize if I am not understanding you perfectly, but it would help if you could at least try to have sentences that made sense.
Now, what you mean is essentially a healer whose healing spells are all different flavors of Cenarion Ward that applies a a debuff on the friendly target. And you have no idea how this could be problematic?
Plus, that doesn't fill a niche at all. What is your animist supposed to be good at healing? Holy priests are burst AoE healers, Disc are proactive shielders, Resto druids are mass HoTers. Animist from your description is putting Cenarion Ward on people and then spending the rest of my time and mana ridding my raid of the crap I put on them, using a mechanic that barely works at all and is likely to randomly disappear during combat.

oh my good god I don't know why but I am beginning to feel like you don't understand english. what is wrong with you?? you need to understand that shadow healing cannot be as transparent as holy healing, hence the healing effects need to work in a subversive way, that is why if ur ally is hit it has a chance to also receive a debuff active on the attacker. can be a dot or just a negative effect but the attacker still keeps his own. when this happens it is your job to place ur pets nerby and use Outburst to pass on the negative effect over to a more appropriate ally, mainly ur pets. and the best part is, u can consume these effects through numerous ways urself which will reduce the CD of your Bad Soul ability.

Pets are inherently flawed because of their AI. They barely work for DPS specs and it would simply cripple the healing spec on some fights. It's a terrible design all around. Let's just say there's a reason Grimoire of Sacrifice is so popular.

why do I bother to answer a troll... who the F told that pets have shitty AI? maybe the troll voice inside ur head? I play BM hunter and never had troubles with my pets. and saying grimoire of sacrifice is tht much popular just proves ur a troll.

This... "paragraph" barely makes any sense at all.
You can't compare druid forms to your Ascendant Shadowform because they have no relation at all. I'm comparing Shadowform because it's already in the game and it's at least very close to your Ascendant Shadowform. I raise a valid point and you just keep ignoring it.

I'm wasting my time here I know but lets just do this 1 more time. the spriests shadow form is mechanically the same as that of a druids shapeshift. or r u gonna say otherwise? ofc u will. nvm then, but spriests shadowform is different from ascendance shadow form. This last one is a passive skill...

Now, here is a quote from what YOU linked: "Shadow ascendants, obviously, are universally Forsaken. Ascendants come from all walks of life, but most are priests (though the occasional warrior or rogue may find ascension in the Forgotten Shadow)". Shadow ascendants=Shadow Priests as far as game mechanics are concerned.

lol there ya go, if u were having trouble accepting the relation between spriests and ascendant necromancers this explains it. no but serious now, ascenadant necromancers can be made as previous shadow priests who delved deeper into the shadow just as a warlock is a mage who made a pact with demons. simple lore.

[Shahad]

oh my good god I don't know why but I am beginning to feel like you don't understand english. what is wrong with you?? you need to understand that shadow healing cannot be as transparent as holy healing, hence the healing effects need to work in a subversive way, that is why if ur ally is hit it has a chance to also receive a debuff active on the attacker. can be a dot or just a negative effect but the attacker still keeps his own. when this happens it is your job to place ur pets nerby and use Outburst to pass on the negative effect over to a more appropriate ally, mainly ur pets. and the best part is, u can consume these effects through numerous ways urself which will reduce the CD of your Bad Soul ability.

I don't care about your convoluted understanding of how Shadow Light and healing work. I just care about what purpose would that healing spec have. What makes it different than the other healers, what makes it special, what makes it DESIRABLE in a raid. Or in PvP. Because so far, all you've said is "LOL U STUPID? I ALREADY SAYD IT HEALS WITH TEH PETS, BUT LIKE IT'S REVERSE HEALING WITH DEBUFFS AND STUFF!"
I just fail to see how anyone would want a healer who DEBUFF HIS FUCKING PARTY MEMBERS in their raid.

why do I bother to answer a troll... who the F told that pets have shitty AI? maybe the troll voice inside ur head? I play BM hunter and never had troubles with my pets. and saying grimoire of sacrifice is tht much popular just proves ur a troll.

I'm not a troll. I'm engaging in an intellectual debate. And I'm winning.
The AI that controls pet behavior is dated and doesn't work nearly as well as it should. They are in the process of upgrading it currently. It's not because you don't have problems with pets that there isn't a problem. If I take the example of Madness of Deathwing, pets could despawn each time you jumped on a platform. And there's another encounter or two like that this current tier. And there will be encounters like that in the future. Point is, pets really shouldn't be anymore than essentially a DoT on a target. Even pet specs like BM hunters mostly use their pet as a DoT. Demonology warlocks too and Unholy DKs as well.
The healing spec you're describing would have a lot of trouble with AoE healing since the pet would be constantly changing position to absorb the debuffs you put on your party members. The only solutions to that is to make AoE heals not use that mechanics(and they're about 80% of the spells used in a raid) or make the pet have a really large range that covers enough area to absorb the debuffs from most of the raid without moving. In both scenarios, the debuff mechanic just becomes a chore that brings no benefit to anyone.

I'm wasting my time here I know but lets just do this 1 more time. the spriests shadow form is mechanically the same as that of a druids shapeshift. or r u gonna say otherwise? ofc u will. nvm then, but spriests shadowform is different from ascendance shadow form. This last one is a passive skill...

Mechanically, Shadowform and Moonkin form are exactly the same. But I'm not talking about mechanics. I'm talking about design.
If you see an ascendant out in the world, what makes it any different visually than a shadow priest? It's just stepping on design space that is already occupied.

lol there ya go, if u were having trouble accepting the relation between spriests and ascendant necromancers this explains it. no but serious now, ascenadant necromancers can be made as previous shadow priests who delved deeper into the shadow just as a warlock is a mage who made a pact with demons. simple lore.

While warlocks are essentially mages with who delve into the demonic arts, mages(of the Kirin Tor) and warlocks are polar opposites. They have very different specs, very different lore, very different playstyle, different feel, etc.
From what I've see, your ascendant is a UBER SHADOW priest in melee. And just by their appearance they'd look similar.

[Deleted]

Mmm, I'd say they're more likely to make a Mail-wearing ranged DPS/healer. Possibly with a tank spec, or possibly not. Blizzard hasn't made a new ranged class since the game began, and it's had too much melee for ages.

I think Mail is more likely than Spell Plate because unless all three specs used Spell Plate then the class would also use STR and/or tank plate, and there's too many plate users already. Also I think Blizzard has misgivings over even having Spell Plate and would like to remove it if they could think of a way without making things super weird for Holy Paladins.

To be honest though, I think they should give new classes a rest for a while at least. WoW is reaching the point of having too many to my mind.

a mail wearing dps/tank/healer/support? Check Dragonsworn in my sig. Want a tank/melee dps/ranged dps? demon hunter in my sig =). These two should be the next 2 classes to be added in the nearest future i think. and just like dota,lol or hon the more classes the merrier!

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 04:55 PM ----------

HAHA again some kid gets a terrible idea then keeps defending it even though everyone tells him why it sucks.

lol no, but nice try...

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 05:02 PM ----------

Personally I don't think it'd fit very well. It'd be too much of a DK/Lock mashup as someone mentioned. It'd just feel odd.

ok if u feel like it than I believe only by playing would u feel all the different feel I know its there . Sometimes theory is just not enough for people to understand =). I havee played this game long enough to be more than just an overzealous kid with a lot of free time that just wants attention. I am doing this because I know it's worth it.

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 05:15 PM ----------

That pretty much sums up your reasoning for creating 8 "hero-class" ideas and defending them til you are blue in the face. The fact of the matter is, in their own way, every class can be heroic. Honestly, I don't even think of DKs as a hero class. I would consider Paladins a true hero class. Tank/DPS/Heal, has a mount, has a bubble, casts magic, uses melee, is up close or short to med range with some spells, uses a shield, and is easily the one class that can truly solo dang near anything in the game (if geared and skilled correctly).

I'm not following u now. I defend my classes because I think they are valid not because I want them to be hero classes. The idea of new hero classes just felt appealing to me and innocent to other classes since there is no biggie between hero classes and regular ones. I don't see how and what is ur point here -_^. I would have created my classes the same way wether they were heroic or regular.

It's ok to want a new class, but of all of your suggestions, the better choice would be something that is ranged, uses mail, and has a Tank/DPS/DPS blend. Necromancer is pretty much covered by a Lock and a DK currently and would only "slightly" vary from them. Even the monk, that was supposed to feel new, just feels like a Rogue/Priest mash-up.

this^,only proves my point. there are always gonna be people that will see flaws everywhere and will never be satisfied. fortunately these people are not taken heavily by Blizzard otherwise the game would never move forward. If for you, a monk just feels like a rogue/priest and u still play it, then a necromancer would not be such a terrible thing afterall . Plus, despite all the babycries, Blizzard still keeps on adding new features and classes. And if u want a tank/dps/dps class that uses mail, if that's ur main concern for the game, then I suggest my own demon hunter XD.

Also, not to sound like a jerk, nor to offend, but it is unlikely Blizzard will pluck it's new class from a fan site from some random dude that has a lot of free time to sketch out these classes.

haha