Second wind needs changing. Now.

[Deleted]

Let's see, warriors saying they're fine and other people simply have to learn to play. The same warriors who claim that other classes should die once they glare at them and that it's perfectly fine for them to kill other classes through defense CD's without any kind of effort. The very same warriors who said they were fine before Blizzard started nerfing them (something they're most likely not done with just yet).

You're so arrogant.
My best guess would be that you were recently killed by a warrior because you couldn't nuke him down.

Warriors damage wasn't fine, our Second Wind combined with the healing reduced from PvP is more than fine.
Now what warrior burst down other classes while they're using defensive cds? I know you like to exaggerate with numbers but come on... first you say that warriors get tons of heals from Second Wind and now you say that we burst down all other classes while them using defensive CDs?

Come back to reality.

[joppas]

Second wind is quite annoying, but its not hard to counter. Immobilize the warrior with a stun or root him and nuke from afar. When im playing arena i get hit 2-3 times between second wind ticks. With a coordinated kill it shouldnt be a porblem bringing a warrior down.

Ferals getting bubble from symbiosis is way more annoying

[omgmewmewcat]

Cant tell you how many times ive died in a 3v3 and second wind ticked a whole 0 times. Thats right, a big 0 total healing from the overpowered warrior. Thats because we have NOTHING outside of damn near dead range.

That's because of you. A skill being overpowered doesn't mean you automatically know how to play.

[Deleted]

If you don't know how to do 11k dps at level 90 and/or save your cooldowns for when a warrior drops IN that second-wind window, you're doing it wrong.

It's not even 11k dps... I'm at 360k HP and my Second Wind ticks for 6.9k~ while in Arena.

[r3as0n]

Second Wind used to Tick for 11k but after the hotfix to healing; Second wind is now ticking at 8k with 61.75% resilience and this is with Commanding Shout at 390k Health. This is also with Shield wall; Rallying Cry, & Die by the sword up and in defensive stance. The Mage still managed to drop me from 100% to Zero in a duel.

I don't know where people are getting these fantasy numbers in pvp saying second wind heals for 11K to 13k in pvp.

[Deleted]

You're so arrogant.
My best guess would be that you were recently killed by a warrior because you couldn't nuke him down.

Warriors damage wasn't fine, our Second Wind combined with the healing reduced from PvP is more than fine.
Now what warrior burst down other classes while they're using defensive cds? I know you like to exaggerate with numbers but come on... first you say that warriors get tons of heals from Second Wind and now you say that we burst down all other classes while them using defensive CDs?

Come back to reality.

I'm a healer, I've seen what warriors survive simply because of second wind. My numbers aren't exaggerated. And even if you cry, scream, whine and threaten people 3% will always stay 3%. The healing debuff isn't important as EVERYONE, absolutely EVERYONE suffers from said debuff and can therefore safely be ignored.

It's not even 11k dps... I'm at 360k HP and my Second Wind ticks for 6.9k~ while in Arena.

360.000 : 100 x 3 = 10800 HP/s. Even with the healing debuff that's still 7600 and about 700 more then you're willing to admit. You're on purpose lowering the number to make it look less impressive. Now you're going to be all "7600 is nothing". Yeah but it's 7600 each second. So in a few seconds you're getting more healing out of it in a 10-20 seconds then other classes get out of their self heal in several minutes.

If you don't know how to do 11k dps at level 90 and/or save your cooldowns for when a warrior drops IN that second-wind window, you're doing it wrong.

The whole "save your cd's" thing is absolute bs and you know that. Warriors aren't raidbosses, you have no right to be special snowflakes when you yourself can pop all your cool downs at will. If people actively try to keep their cool downs for when an warrior drops low they're at a severe disadvantage.

Also even with the lowered ammount there's one big problem you guys aren't taking into consideration, resilence. Resilence does in effect make every single last heal point worth more then it currently is. People get up to 66% of resilence. That means you have to deal 3 points of damage to deduce a single one from the enemy. So in effect every healing is trippled by that.
That means your self heal against other dps is worth thrice as much as the number implies, yes this also applies to other self heals but those aren't permanent and can often be interrupted/dispelled. Yours is permanent and can't.

So instead of doing 7,6k dps an dps who wants to kill you has to do 22,8k dps + 1 (so they actually damage you instead of off setting your healing). A melee has to do even more damage as much of their damage is further reduced by armor. And unlike an target dummy that warrior is going to hit back, to cc, to kite the enemy when he drops low...

[r3as0n]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...m%C3%B8/simple

This is my Armory;

2300 in 2v2 arena
2400 in 3v3 arena
2200 in 5v5 arena
2200 in Rated Battlegrounds
High Warlord in Vanilla

390k hp with Commanding shout
61.75% Resil

Even in a duel where they say Second Wind is OP; i used to heal for 11k per tick but even using all defensive cooldowns, i always lose to mages like Venruki or Jahmilli; Top mages in Bloodlust

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ahmilli/simple

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Venruki/simple

We are all T2 and these players never had an issue dropping me down with all my defensive cds up with 11k heals from 2nd wind and this was also when i stacked resil and was sitting at 435k hp in fc gear. They always killed me through 2nd wind.

--

5.1 is here and the hot fixes to healing also reduced second wind healing from 11k to 8k with all defensive cds blowing with commanding shout. Notice their 5's team is Rank 1 with 113 wins and ZERO LOSSES.

I wonder why there are no warriors in their 5s team... o wait because they aren't as OP some people suggest.

[Deleted]

You're so arrogant.
My best guess would be that you were recently killed by a warrior because you couldn't nuke him down.

Warriors damage wasn't fine, our Second Wind combined with the healing reduced from PvP is more than fine.
Now what warrior burst down other classes while they're using defensive cds? I know you like to exaggerate with numbers but come on... first you say that warriors get tons of heals from Second Wind and now you say that we burst down all other classes while them using defensive CDs?

Come back to reality.

It's true, Warrior burst is insane. You can see that in PvE as well. Our warrior is the worst of all DPSers, but when it comes to burst at the start on a boss he's ahead. Also Warrior + Warlock Demo or Hunter Beastmaster is insane burst. I die as a DK in BPres with all my CDs with a paladin healing me in few seconds, even using my sacrifice. So yeah, some bursts are insane, more so if combined with those 2 classes/specs.

[Deleted]

The problem is that people can't keep their cool downs just to blow through second wind.

You don't need cooldowns to get through second wind. I have no more constructive input to give if you disagree with this so I'll just stop here before I tire myself any further.

[Dazzy]

It seemed high at the beginning of the expansion, with the amount of people are doing now, i rarely see anyone have trouble with second wind. If you are, you aren't doing something right.

I was kind of thinking that, my rip and rake are doing about 29k combined in barely average pve gear, even when they equip a shield...

[Redlikemyrage]

You don't need cooldowns to get through second wind. I have no more constructive input to give if you disagree with this so I'll just stop here before I tire myself any further.

Yeah, I'm taking the same stance with this discussion. I simply cannot fathom how anyone doesn't understand SW is fine in 3s.

Second Wind is fine in 3s.

Second Wind is fine in 3s.

Second Wind is fine in 3s.

Second Wind is fine in 3s.

The fact that its passive, who cares? As anyone has said, it can be easily dealt with by a competent player.

The fact that its OP 1v1, who cares? Game isn't close to balanced in that aspect, never will be.

If you are still arguing about Second Wind being OP in 3s, you are simply bad at PvP. period. It has nothing to do with the supposed OP'ness of that ability, and everything to do with you lacking the skill to play the game properly.

[yurano]

Even in a duel where they say Second Wind is OP; i used to heal for 11k per tick but even using all defensive cooldowns, i always lose to mages like Venruki or Jahmilli; Top mages in Bloodlust

I'm gonna stop you right there. You're dueling a mage...

Warriors have a hard time sticking onto mages and pretty much anyone with strong kiting so your point is moot. Plus, Mages have a hard counter to your primary CC.

I wonder why there are no warriors in their 5s team... o wait because they aren't as OP some people suggest.

Cuz they went wizard cleave?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/bloodlust/5v5

Ranks 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 16 have warriors. Rank 12 has two warriors.

Out of the top 20 teams, there are 10 warriors and a total of 88 players (some team rosters aren't full). So warriors have a representation of 11.4%, something we'd expect from healer classes.

[Wow]

The only thing about second wind that needs a nerf is the rage it gives it makes def stance to easy to just sit in.

[Redlikemyrage]

The only thing about second wind that needs a nerf is the rage it gives it makes def stance to easy to just sit in.

This. I would like to see some reward for properly stance dancing in PvP. A little change like this would separate the boys from the men.

[r3as0n]

I'm gonna stop you right there. You're dueling a mage...

Warriors have a hard time sticking onto mages and pretty much anyone with strong kiting so your point is moot. Plus, Mages have a hard counter to your primary CC.



Cuz they went wizard cleave?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/bloodlust/5v5

Ranks 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 16 have warriors. Rank 12 has two warriors.

Out of the top 20 teams, there are 10 warriors and a total of 88 players (some team rosters aren't full). So warriors have a representation of 11.4%, something we'd expect from healer classes.

that was prepatch & hotfix; warriors second wind now ticks for 8k with commanding shout at 390k hp. 9.4k with rallying cry. But many classes can already burst thru the 8k ticks at 30%.

Every class can burst thru 8k tick second wind.

[Naight]

When Blizzard made Second Wind, they didn't focus on 1v1. 1v1 with Second Wind is very strong. But in arena, rbgs and even bgs. Its not overpowered at all. When you are getting a warrior low on health, and Second Wind starts to pop. You just need to remember that now he will get heals, and burst him a little harder. People often forget about that, and is just mad about they cant kill them just as fast as they once could. However. If you get a warrior into a snare or something like that, and have 2 people on him. Lets say.. 3v3. He will die. As a warrior. It sometimes dosn't even feels like we have Second Wind because there is just some burst out there that is too strong.
But in 1v1 it is very strong because Blizzard didn't think about 1v1 as they made it. And I know what Im talking about I play a warlock and a warrior
If warriors didnt have Second Wind, they would go back to the "Gets kited to a slowly death" But thanks to Second Wind, we can overcome that now. Which is amazing. So yeah dont just think its over powered because a warrior didnt die when he got low on health. Its not like it heals him full or anything.

[Gouca]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...m%C3%B8/simple

This is my Armory;

2300 in 2v2 arena
2400 in 3v3 arena
2200 in 5v5 arena
2200 in Rated Battlegrounds
High Warlord in Vanilla

390k hp with Commanding shout
61.75% Resil

Even in a duel where they say Second Wind is OP; i used to heal for 11k per tick but even using all defensive cooldowns, i always lose to mages like Venruki or Jahmilli; Top mages in Bloodlust

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ahmilli/simple

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Venruki/simple

We are all T2 and these players never had an issue dropping me down with all my defensive cds up with 11k heals from 2nd wind and this was also when i stacked resil and was sitting at 435k hp in fc gear. They always killed me through 2nd wind.

--

5.1 is here and the hot fixes to healing also reduced second wind healing from 11k to 8k with all defensive cds blowing with commanding shout. Notice their 5's team is Rank 1 with 113 wins and ZERO LOSSES.

I wonder why there are no warriors in their 5s team... o wait because they aren't as OP some people suggest.

Isn't it fun, now that they have QQd enough to have our class nerfed DMG-wise, they start about defensivity? :-)

[Deleted]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...m%C3%B8/simple

This is my Armory;

2300 in 2v2 arena
2400 in 3v3 arena
2200 in 5v5 arena
2200 in Rated Battlegrounds
High Warlord in Vanilla

390k hp with Commanding shout
61.75% Resil

Ok

Even in a duel where they say Second Wind is OP; i used to heal for 11k per tick but even using all defensive cooldowns, i always lose to mages like Venruki or Jahmilli; Top mages in Bloodlust

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ahmilli/simple

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Venruki/simple

We are all T2 and these players never had an issue dropping me down with all my defensive cds up with 11k heals from 2nd wind and this was also when i stacked resil and was sitting at 435k hp in fc gear. They always killed me through 2nd wind.

Let me help you a bit...

They are better players, and they are playing a frost mage. Try duel any other 2.2k rated caster that's not a frost mage (and not someone that's top 5 world for his class), and tell me how that went. Or any melee for that matter. I love how every melee always compare themselves to a frost mage.

Notice their 5's team is Rank 1 with 113 wins and ZERO LOSSES.

I wonder why there are no warriors in their 5s team... o wait because they aren't as OP some people suggest.

Wow, so they picked the best shadow priests, warlocks and mages in their battlegroup to ensure rank 1 for this season, by playing an obvious spellcleave setup, and you are complaining that there are no warriors on their team.

Guess you should take a look on http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...-0--0-0-0.html to get a better view, instead of just linking 1 random team out of several 100 possible rank 1 contenders. Even now there's a thread on AJ where everyone seem to agree that shockwave is still overpowered, and should be toned down.

[Redlikemyrage]

If Shockwave needs to be toned down, then so does just about any other CC that can hit more than one target at a time. Good thing this thread is about Second Wind though...

[Tya]

If Shockwave needs to be toned down, then so does just about any other CC that can hit more than one target at a time. Good thing this thread is about Second Wind though...

Yes. You are right. Shockwave needs obliterating (along with the other CC talents that you'd just take instead), alongside a massive tone-down of all stuns, instant ranged CC and interrupts.