Time to discuss gun regulation in the US?

[Deleted]

If someone is determined to shoot and kill people, guns being illegal wont change a thing.

Well, after 30 years of living in Belgium, I still don't have any idea where I would find a gun here. It does make a difference.

[schwarzkopf]

Listen, the constitution asserts a man's right to bear arms and arm bears and all points in between. Whoever heard of a gun, or a bear, causing problems?

I heard of a gun causing a problem this morning (my time) - 20 kids are dead that wouldn't be dead if he went in with a knife and not a gun. Same crazy, same school - the weapon makes the difference.

[Healing Rain]

It was the lack of guns that made the deadliest act of violence on American soil even more deadly: the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

[Peacemaker65]

If you want to discuss regulating my guns then let's discuss regulating your speech!

[ddsad2212]

I dont mean this as a flame, but if i am not mistaken there was a chart(ya a chart on the internet generally not trust worthy but i will run with it for now), that showed people killed by legally owned guns, it showed about 10 countries(all with populations about half of the USA or less I might add) and they had roughly 2-3% the number of deaths as the usa in this way.

Now in all of these countries If what i looked up was right, it is still not what you would call hard to get a gun, so rather then more gun control(which I know a lot of people in the Usa is against) maybe trying to change peoples mind set is needed in order to prevent these from happening. While I believe more gun control would help, I also think that the USA has a massive gun crime rate for other reason's that gun control would not stop.

[schwarzkopf]

It was one crazy, sick person that caused the deaths of those children. That's all.

Who couldn't have done it without a gun.

In Australia, we used the Port Philip massacre as a wake up call and took control of the situation dramatically, I'm not suggesting the USA go that far - but jeez, a gun licence should be as hard to get as a car licence shouldn't it ?

[schwarzkopf]

If you want to discuss regulating my guns then let's discuss regulating your speech!

Speech is already regulated, cars are regulated - I mean even big cups of soft drink are regulated. Why not guns ?

[Alixie]

Well, after 30 years of living in Belgium, I still don't have any idea where I would find a gun here. It does make a difference.

I said determined to kill people. If someone really wants to shoot up masses, they'll find one.

A bit off topic but to go along with what you said, weed is illegal here. I have no idea how to obtain pot, but I know those that really want it can find it.

[Peacemaker65]

Speech is already regulated, cars are regulated - I mean even big cups of soft drink are regulated. Why not guns ?

Guns are regulated. Where have you been?

[cherb]

First of all I'd like to say that I'm not an American and haven't lived in America for a good 8 years now, so information might be incorrect and if so please correct me

In response to the recent shootings at both the Connecticut elementary school and the Oregon Mall, wouldn't you agree that it's about time to discuss severely limiting gun freedom and firearm possession in America?
I just think that there *might* be some form of correlation between gun-sales and possession and shootings when the countries with the least number of people shot per year are also the ones with the tightest legislation and the least armed police officers...
"If everyone has a gun then it's safer herp derp second amendment I-do-need-me-my-fully-automatic-gun-for-self-defense"


Thoughts?

Even in the U.S., automatic weapons are incredibly difficult to get. The process is long and drawn out in most places, and not even close to the ease of buying a hunting rifle or handgun. The Connecticut shooting had 0 automatic weapons, and I don't believe the oregon one did either? Not sure why that last little bit was even included in your post.

Also, in America, the right to bear arms is in our constitution. I really don't care if other nations think it's silly, ridiculous, insert another adjective here, because we have a right to have a gun just as much as a right to free speech and freedom of religion. For every shooting, there are a thousand responsible gun owners. I could kill someone with a car just as easily as a gun, and tons of people die every year from cars, accidental or not. Should we outlaw those too?

[Stede]

I've a pretty metered opinion, but I'd like first to address your misinformation. No American current has the right to bear a fully automatic weapon except certain military and police. All civilian-grade variants are required to be maintained in semi-automatic capability by law. Also, Switzerland has a comparable rate of per capita firearms, and an almost non-existent rate of gun violence.

The problem isn't the guns. The problem is the gun culture. On to my thoughts, now.

This is why I can't get behind Gun Control advocates. Because it takes all of two sentences for them to turn into Gun Abolishionists. There is a stark, stark difference. And let's be real - the only way to repeal the 2nd Amendment is to pass another Amendment repealing it. Even if it were viable, it would cleave the country in two, and bring us to the brink of civil war.

We should instead revise the Amendment to make it a right to own guns for all persons over a certain age who pass background checks, firearms safety training, and psychological profiling. We should institute recurring re-certification requirements, testing, and training.

If it's worth having guns around, then it's worth being vigilant, competent, and changing the ridiculuos gun culture that we currently have. But so long as the hacks keep screaming their respective brand of extremism - nothing will be done. You want to blame somebody? Blame the NRA. Blame the gun abolitionsists. And blame the moderates who've yet found their voice - because they truly are the only ones capable of adopting a feasible solution.

[DrStiglit]

No time, because constitution.

Because congress hasn't gone against the constitution before??

OT:

I am an American and a former gun owner before I moved to California.. My gun was illegal in this state so I had to sell it before I moved.. I agree with stricter gun laws.. I believe we run into a lot of instances where the situation wasn't planned and there just happened to be a gun around. It is possible that in some of these situations had a gun not been readily available they would not of happened or would have been less severe. I don't believe these people went out and bought guns for the sole reason of doing what they did. Something happened, a gun was there and in turn the situation escalated. Many deaths would be avoided if children didn't have access to a parents gun, which they wouldn't if they were not allowed to have guns..

It's true criminals will still get guns, but guns will not be available for someone to grab in a spur of the moment fit of rage moment of insanity.

[Twilightdawn]

Maybe, but its not necessarily the source of the problem. sure, they were shot with a gun, but when was the last time any of you were in school? think of the " methods " in place to react to a situation like this, its called a lockdown, in which the most meager display of protection is put in place, it goes a little like this
> Close and lock door, which doesn't do much, because they have a gun and can probably just shoot the handle off.
> Close Blinds, again, kind of pointless, they are already inside after all
> Put all the kids in one corner of the room, the one closest to the door ( not behind the door, but if you walked in and turned left, that corner ) probably the stupidest of them all, i know there might not be another alternative, but crowding them all together isn't saving them from an automatic weapon, its making them easier targets.
> Wait.
Whoever came up with this really didn't think it through, what, is the gunman honestly stupid enough to believe more than maybe, 10 out of hundreds of class-rooms, that should be populated by thousands of students, are actually empty? Maybe instead of reconsidering gun laws, we need to reconsider our plans for emergencies such as these.
Will it reduce the gun-related deaths to 0? No, but it will probably prevent it from being 18 kids who were only 5-10 years old.
I guess what i'm trying to say is the actual layouts of schools need to be fixed, so in case of an emergency, you have somewhere to go, limiting the deaths as much as possible. But its truly unavoidable in my opinion, take into consideration, a crowded hallway in a heavily populated high school, the gunman would be lost in a crowd, and bullet penetration would lead to devastating effects.

[schwarzkopf]

Did the gun(S) walk into the school on there own and shoot people?

LOL. Be real, that's absolutely silly talk.

[Shadoweye]

Who couldn't have done it without a gun.

In Australia, we used the Port Philip massacre as a wake up call and took control of the situation dramatically, I'm not suggesting the USA go that far - but jeez, a gun licence should be as hard to get as a car licence shouldn't it ?

Its not that hard to get a license to drive.

Edit... its not hard at all to get a drivers license...

[cherb]

It was the lack of guns that made the deadliest act of violence on American soil even more deadly: the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

The deadliest act in American history (as far as Americans dying) was the Civil War. Lots of guns then.

[schwarzkopf]

Guns are regulated. Where have you been?

I've been listening to a stream of young USA folk being slaughtered in the name of some false reading of the constitution.

Giving away guns at a bank, selling guns in KMart ... that isn't regulation, that is free for all.

[Thelxi]

Look, do you people seriously think that regulations would have kept a guy like this from murdering 20something children? no.

[Drekker17]

Its not that hard to get a license to drive.

Apparently he wants it to be even easier to get guns.

[Rah55]

we have awesome gun laws. To bad they are not enforced correctly, or at all.


By the way, owning a "fully automatic" gun is not something that is taken lightly here. You need a very expensive permit and they run a very through check on you before giving it to you.

Almost all the gun violence is not from your normal, registered gun owner. But I guess if you want to just say "herp derp ban all guns" that is your opinion.

Unfortunately that is incorrect. A loophole in that law allows assault weapons to be bought with no background check or permit at any gun show.