Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Mormolyce]

This topic again. Guns don't scare me because in the UK we're not obsessed with killing people so we don't see guns unless we actively seek out sporting/shooting events. I respect guns whenever I am in their vicinity, the same can't be said of most Americans who brazenly wander around with them or outright brag about owning 15 of them. It's a pathetic obsession.

Yeah I can't say I'm afraid of guns seeing as I've literally never seen one outside a cop's belt (Australia).

But if I lived in America I think I'd get a concealed carry license and keep one on me. No offence, Americans.

[Rukentuts]

Yeah I can't say I'm afraid of guns seeing as I've literally never seen one outside a cop's belt (Australia).

But if I lived in America I think I'd get a concealed carry license and keep one on me.

There's really no need. It's just the media blowing things out of proportion.

People like to say: "Gun control is based out of fear!" when those hypocrites don't realize that owning a gun is more often than not based on irrational fear.

[Mormolyce]

To be honest, gun control is already about as effective as it's realistically going to get. There are some minor changes that are worth considering, but there's very little that can be done that will have a real net effect on violent crime.

In America? Are you kidding?

If you mean to say that it's about as effective as it's going to get without lobby groups having it struck down on a Second Amendment basis then yeah, probably. I mean, there's a terminology issue here, what Americans refer to as "gun control" we in the rest of the world refer to as "no gun control at all".

We're talking about a country that has almost as many guns in it as people.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_...ita_by_country

[Rukentuts]

IWe're talking about a country that has almost as many guns in it as people.

It's also noteworthy that the guns are actually being concentrated in a smaller and smaller percentage of the population.

[Mormolyce]

There's really no need. It's just the media blowing things out of proportion.

People like to say: "Gun control is based out of fear!" when those hypocrites don't realize that owning a gun is more often than not based on irrational fear.

Probably, the murder rate in the US is about 4/100k so although it's about 4 times higher than any other Western nation it's still fairly unlikely it'll happen to you.

I'd still get one just in case.

[Rukentuts]

Probably, the murder rate in the US is about 4/100k so although it's about 4 times higher than any other Western nation it's still fairly unlikely it'll happen to you.

I'd still get one just in case.

Hehe. Just watch where you go. I've never felt unsafe. Of course you wouldn't catch me on Lake Street after 22:00. Holy motherfucking shit.

[Mormolyce]

It's also noteworthy that the guns are actually being concentrated in a smaller and smaller percentage of the population.

True, but which people? Some of the people I see in gun control threads are the last people on Earth I think should be able to own guns.

I remember on the old D2 forums there was this guy who posted constantly in the gun control threads. He was convinced zombies were real and had a phobia of bras. And no he wasn't a troll, believe me. I miss those guys...

Still if you look at a 40-year period or so, America's homicide rate has come down a lot, and at the same time gun owning households went from something like 50% to more like 35% of households. In trend terms, things are getting better. But gun ownership and homicides are still dramatically higher than America's peers.

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Hehe. Just watch where you go. I've never felt unsafe. Of course you wouldn't catch me on Lake Street after 22:00. Holy motherfucking shit.

I used to live in some suburbs here that... well if I was in the American equivalent, I would want. a. fucking. gun.

And possibly a Howitzer.

[Rukentuts]

I used to live in some suburbs here that... well if I was in the American equivalent, I would want. a. fucking. gun.

And possibly a Howitzer.

This is me on Lake Street.

[PhaelixWW]

Easy to manage. LOL! Tell me when you actually develop one of these systems. Your posts are so off the mark I just spit up my pop. Tell me, what index(es) would you use for a table of billions of records?

The system has worked for decades with paper records and phone calls. It's not difficult to manage. Each manufacturer/importer/FFL has a separate database. The entry for one firearm in one leads directly to the entry in the subsequent database in the chain of custody. It's not rocket science. It doesn't need to be one big centralized database to be effective.

they're so well documented you still have no example. Surprising, not.

Go ahead and ignore the fact that I intentionally disregarded your demand for examples of potential abuse, I don't care. They've been covered before ITT, and I don't feel like taking your bait to engage in a tangential discussion about it.

[GreatOak]

True, but which people? Some of the people I see in gun control threads are the last people on Earth I think should be able to own guns.

I remember on the old D2 forums there was this guy who posted constantly in the gun control threads. He was convinced zombies were real and had a phobia of bras. And no he wasn't a troll, believe me. I miss those guys...

Still if you look at a 40-year period or so, America's homicide rate has come down a lot, and at the same time gun owning households went from something like 50% to more like 35% of households. In trend terms, things are getting better. But gun ownership and homicides are still dramatically higher than America's peers.

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I used to live in some suburbs here that... well if I was in the American equivalent, I would want. a. fucking. gun.

And possibly a Howitzer.

Go to Worldstarhiphop if you want to see some of the funny shit that goes on around here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AVzMzusXOs

good times lol

[Cthulhu 2020]

Target lost information due to a vulnerability in the POS system, more notably on the devices into which you insert your CCs. Someone installed malware onto them. It would be up to individual firms to secure their own input devices, however, there's nothing in the ballpark as sensitive as CC#s in my idea. So faulty premise aside, this isn't applicable.
You're comparing a hardware overload to a back-end data breach? What?

People need to stop attempting to tech when they don't know what they're talking about.

That he brings up Target as an example of a vulnerable security system when you were talking about government is kind of funny.

I mean, when we talk about the inefficiency of government, he of all people provides an example of a private company losing its customer's private information to a hack, and yet the government has yet to have such a leak. That really just made my fucking day.

[PhaelixWW]

Yeah I can't say I'm afraid of guns seeing as I've literally never seen one outside a cop's belt (Australia).

But if I lived in America I think I'd get a concealed carry license and keep one on me. No offence, Americans.

Despite the media-driven viewpoint of America being awash with guns... we're not. I've never seen a firearm in public that wasn't strapped to the hip of a law enforcement officer, either. Of course, I live in California with no open carry allowed.

I also haven't witnessed any shootings, despite the fact that I live in a major city in a state that claims more than 1/7 of the country's firearm homicides. Of course, that's also because California has a population greater than all but a handful of European countries, and nearly twice that of Australia.

[Cthulhu 2020]

True, but which people? Some of the people I see in gun control threads are the last people on Earth I think should be able to own guns.

I remember on the old D2 forums there was this guy who posted constantly in the gun control threads. He was convinced zombies were real and had a phobia of bras. And no he wasn't a troll, believe me. I miss those guys...

Still if you look at a 40-year period or so, America's homicide rate has come down a lot, and at the same time gun owning households went from something like 50% to more like 35% of households. In trend terms, things are getting better. But gun ownership and homicides are still dramatically higher than America's peers.

- - - Updated - - -



I used to live in some suburbs here that... well if I was in the American equivalent, I would want. a. fucking. gun.

And possibly a Howitzer.

I'm not against responsible people owning guns.

These nuts that talk about government conspiracies, gun grabs, and tyrannical take overs are possibly the last people I want owning guns. Their head is clearly not in reality, and we really shouldn't be giving guns to delusionals. McVeigh was pretty much the poster child of why these people shouldn't have dangerous weapons.

[PhaelixWW]

Still if you look at a 40-year period or so, America's homicide rate has come down a lot, and at the same time gun owning households went from something like 50% to more like 35% of households. In trend terms, things are getting better.

Not just 40 years. The murder rate is basically at it's lowest point in over 100 years. We had a similar low around the late '50s, but you have to go back to about 1905 for a lower murder rate.

A fact that would surprise a lot of people who get all their information from MSM, unfortunately. It's no surprise that MSM tends to be fairly sensationalistic.

[Eroginous]

This is why I don't get most pro-gunners. You really can't compromise with them.

Your version of 'compromise' is to 'give up your rights.'

Pro gun guy: 'I want to be able to own a gun, keep it on my property, protect myself, and use it for recreational purposes which may include hunting or target practice.

Gun control guy: 'I don't want you to be able to own any guns from this long list of 'military style' weaponry. I don't want you to be able to own any gun that looks scary or might be useful in a mass murder. I don't want you to be able to own a gun unless you are 100% free of mental illness and are a boy scout. I don't want you to be able to own a gun if you have even the slightest hint of a criminal background. I don't want you to be able to own a gun unless the government can put detailed information into a nationwide database that lists all the firearms you have, where you bought them, and other personal identifying information.'

Pro gun guy: 'Why are you doing so many things to hinder my ability to exercise my second amendment rights?'

Gun control guy: 'Because your second amendment rights are outdated and unnecessary. No one needs to be able to protect themselves or enjoy gun related hobbies. If I had it my way, guns would be confiscated and melted down into metal to be used for medical supplies in children's hospitals.'

Pro gun guy: 'What if I told you that my ancestors died in numerous wars to ensure I had my second amendment rights, and I was willing to do the same to make sure future generations also have them?'

Gun control guy: 'What? You're insane! Guns are bad and you should be ashamed of yourself for liking them.'

It's a wonder people don't want to give up their rights, amirite?

[Delekii]

Your version of 'compromise' is to 'give up your rights.'

Pro gun guy: 'I want to be able to own a gun, keep it on my property, protect myself, and use it for recreational purposes which may include hunting or target practice.

Gun control guy: 'I don't want you to be able to own any guns from this long list of 'military style' weaponry. I don't want you to be able to own any gun that looks scary or might be useful in a mass murder. I don't want you to be able to own a gun unless you are 100% free of mental illness and are a boy scout. I don't want you to be able to own a gun if you have even the slightest hint of a criminal background. I don't want you to be able to own a gun unless the government can put detailed information into a nationwide database that lists all the firearms you have, where you bought them, and other personal identifying information.'

Pro gun guy: 'Why are you doing so many things to hinder my ability to exercise my second amendment rights?'

Gun control guy: 'Because your second amendment rights are outdated and unnecessary. No one needs to be able to protect themselves or enjoy gun related hobbies. If I had it my way, guns would be confiscated and melted down into metal to be used for medical supplies in children's hospitals.'

Pro gun guy: 'What if I told you that my ancestors died in numerous wars to ensure I had my second amendment rights, and I was willing to do the same to make sure future generations also have them?'

Gun control guy: 'What? You're insane! Guns are bad and you should be ashamed of yourself for liking them.'

It's a wonder people don't want to give up their rights, amirite?

It _IS_ a wonder, because those rights impede on other people's rights to not be shot.

As always, it blows my mind that people hold the constitution on a pedestal as an immutable document. Just how much change in society does there need to be before parts of it are considered irrelevant or inappropriate in current circumstances to the point of needing change? Let me expand the argument to the ridiculous; if slavery was still supported in the constitution, would you consider it as immutable as you seemingly consider the second amendment? Does there really need to be another war to abolish the second amendment? Lol.

[Rukentuts]

Your version of 'compromise' is to 'give up your rights.'

It's a wonder people don't want to give up their rights, amirite?

Holy motherfucking strawman Batman. This sort of tracking infringes nothing.

You're doing a great job on demonstrating what I just said.

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The system has worked for decades with paper records and phone calls. It's not difficult to manage. Each manufacturer/importer/FFL has a separate database. The entry for one firearm in one leads directly to the entry in the subsequent database in the chain of custody. It's not rocket science. It doesn't need to be one big centralized database to be effective.

Yeah, except it doesn't work this way at all. I don't know what reality you live in.

Go ahead and ignore the fact that I intentionally disregarded your demand for examples of potential abuse, I don't care. They've been covered before ITT, and I don't feel like taking your bait to engage in a tangential discussion about it.

What abuse? You still haven't pulled an example from an orifice. I'm shocked.

[Laize]

It _IS_ a wonder, because those rights impede on other people's rights to not be shot.

No. Your right to not get shot is not impeded unless you actually get shot.

As always, it blows my mind that people hold the constitution on a pedestal as an immutable document. Just how much change in society does there need to be before parts of it are considered irrelevant or inappropriate in current circumstances to the point of needing change? Let me expand the argument to the ridiculous; if slavery was still supported in the constitution, would you consider it as immutable as you seemingly consider the second amendment? Does there really need to be another war to abolish the second amendment? Lol.

The Constitution is NOT immutable. You're free to try and change it. Go right ahead. You will lose on this one though.

[Deleted]

Your version of 'compromise' is to 'give up your rights.'

Pro gun guy: 'I want to be able to own a gun, keep it on my property, protect myself, and use it for recreational purposes which may include hunting or target practice.

Gun control guy: 'I don't want you to be able to own any guns from this long list of 'military style' weaponry. I don't want you to be able to own any gun that looks scary or might be useful in a mass murder. I don't want you to be able to own a gun unless you are 100% free of mental illness and are a boy scout. I don't want you to be able to own a gun if you have even the slightest hint of a criminal background. I don't want you to be able to own a gun unless the government can put detailed information into a nationwide database that lists all the firearms you have, where you bought them, and other personal identifying information.'

Pro gun guy: 'Why are you doing so many things to hinder my ability to exercise my second amendment rights?'

Gun control guy: 'Because your second amendment rights are outdated and unnecessary. No one needs to be able to protect themselves or enjoy gun related hobbies. If I had it my way, guns would be confiscated and melted down into metal to be used for medical supplies in children's hospitals.'

Pro gun guy: 'What if I told you that my ancestors died in numerous wars to ensure I had my second amendment rights, and I was willing to do the same to make sure future generations also have them?'

Gun control guy: 'What? You're insane! Guns are bad and you should be ashamed of yourself for liking them.'

It's a wonder people don't want to give up their rights, amirite?

Wow. I read this as satire first time around and had a chuckle. Then I realised there was no punchline or attempt to amuse people, it was that you actually believe "gun control guy" is a monster who wants to take all of your righ... sorry guns away forvever.

[Delekii]

No. Your right to not get shot is not impeded unless you actually get shot.



The Constitution is NOT immutable. You're free to try and change it. Go right ahead. You will lose on this one though.

That's sort of my point. I know it is not immutable; however, when people say things like "It's a wonder people don't want to give up their rights, amirite?", it makes me instantly assume that they believe otherwise.