Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Tinykong]

You made the claim that it was a very real thing. You failed to provide a single example of it happening.

Something that's "very real" usually exists. You've failed to provide evidence for existence.

Don't blame me for calling you out, yet again.

Pretty big difference between "doesn't exist" and "not readily available for forum linking."

The kind of proof that will satisfy you simply doesn't exist. Doxxing happens, gun control is controversial and lunatics abound, so being cautious is reasonable. Period.

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I completely debunked your magical website with 2 seconds of reading. I'd be upset too. /shrug

By quoting an unpublished study? Your arguments from authority don't gain relevance the more times you reiterate them.

Let's see the per capita firearm homicide rates for Missouri for the last 20 years. I'll wait.

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Pre 9-11 don't you know? the important thing is saying it, not backing it up.

Can you read or do you want me to spell it out for you?

Less snark, more substance, please.

One last time, do you have anything substantive to offer?

[TZucchini]

By quoting an unpublished study? Your arguments from authority don't gain relevance the more times you reiterate them.

And calling something an argument from authority doesn't magically make it one.

Let's see the per capita firearm homicide rates for Missouri for the last 20 years. I'll wait.

Or. Or. We could examine the period of time that occurred directly after the repeal of their background check law. We could look at the firearm homicide rate, control for things like poverty, unemployment. We could look at the surrounding states, and control for their firearm homicide rates.

If we did this, we'd realize that while the national rate decreased, Missouri's rate increased by 25%.

That ain't causal, but it's sure as hell damning.

[Tinykong]

And calling something an argument from authority doesn't magically make it one.

I'm sorry, did you not post this?

The credentials of the BBC and Prof Daniel Webster of Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research speak for themselves.

Yep, as I said, argument from authority. "Study can't be viewed or scrutinized, but their credentials are good, so their conclusion is valid regardless."

Or. Or. We could examine the period of time that occurred directly after the repeal of their background check law. We could look at the firearm homicide rate, control for things like poverty, unemployment. We could look at the surrounding states, and control for their firearm homicide rates.

If we did this, we'd realize that while the national rate decreased, Missouri's rate increased by 25%.

That ain't causal, but it's sure as hell damning.

Then let's see the data.

[TZucchini]

Yep, as I said, argument from authority. "Study can't be viewed or scrutinized, but their credentials are good, so their conclusion is valid regardless."

"My Dad said global warming is fake. He would know, he's a scientist."

That's an argument from authority.

"The BBC and Daniel Webster, the author of said study, have reported that a study was conducted, and that this is the conclusion. I trust that these sources are not lying, and that said study actually exists, and that it comes to 'x' conclusion."

That's not an argument from authority.

Then let's see the data.

OK sure. This information isn't new. It's been in existence for at least a year. The new study controlled for variables that the previous information didn't.

I am just beginning a study of the effects of Missouri’s repeal of its permit-to-purchase licensing system on violent crime. Preliminary evidence suggests that the increase in the diversion of guns to criminals linked to the law’s repeal may have translated into increases in homicides committed with firearms. From 1999 through 2007, Missouri’s age-adjusted homicide rate was relatively stable, fluctuating around a mean of 4.66 per 100,000 population per year. In 2008, the first full year after the permit-to-purchase licensing law was repealed, the age-adjusted firearm homicide rate in Missouri increased sharply to 6.23 per 100,000 population, a 34 percent increase. For the post-repeal period of 2008-2010, the mean annual age-adjusted firearm homicide rate was 5.82, 25 percent above the pre-repeal mean

Source.

Oh look. They even used a firearm rate. Better tell the armchair posters on your mystery website.

[Tinykong]

That's not an argument from authority.

Except, that's not the argument that was made. No one is questioning whether the study is real, but rather, since the data can't be scrutinized, the conclusion is unsubstantiated. Your willingness to accept their conclusion without scrutiny, and to tout that conclusion as proof of:

TLDR: Repealed a gun control law. More Firearm homicides occurred.

is your argument from authority.

Source.

Oh look. They even used a firearm rate. Better tell the armchair posters on your mystery website.

Quoting the same study?

Where is the data. I'm not interested in a synopsis.

[TZucchini]

I just gave you the data. That isn't the same study. Its congressional testimony from 2013. Did you even read it?

[Tinykong]

I just gave you the data. That isn't the same study. Its congressional testimony from 2013. Did you even read it?

I'm not interested in Webster's synopsis or a transcript of his testimony, I'd like to see the actual data they used in the study.

[TZucchini]

Of course you're not interested in it. The data doesnt reflect your worldview.

For someone who has failed to produce evidence on multiple occasions, handwaving Congressional testimony is impressive.

[Tinykong]

Of course you're not interested in it. The data doesnt reflect your worldview.

For someone who has failed to produce evidence on multiple occasions, handwaving Congressional testimony is impressive.

His synopsis is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Where is the data?

Now we can add Congress to the list of authorities you are willing to appeal to in order to avoid having to provide any data.

edit: The most ironic part of this entire discussion, is that I support the universal background checks that Missouri repealed.

[TZucchini]

His Congressional testimony is evidence of the data. You're unwilling to accept it as evidence because of the conclusion it implies.

[Tinykong]

His Congressional testimony is evidence of the data. You're unwilling to accept it as evidence because of the conclusion it implies.

Data that you either can't, or won't, present.

[TZucchini]

I've given you the data. I've provided evidence that the data exists. You've rejected both.

[Tinykong]

I've given you the data. I've provided evidence that the data exists. You've rejected both.

No, you provided a transcript of a synopsis of data.

Where is the actual data?

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An interesting article unrelated to my previous comment:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/c...#ixzz2tgmXmn50

Terroristic acts? That's new.

[GreatOak]

I like this guy's videos. He's too good for the NRA as it stands



Well, won't be so bad once the leadership is gone and we stop looking crazy

[vaeevictiss]

Colion Noir is another good one.

[Mayhem]

Data that you either can't, or won't, present.

just as you if i´m not mistaken, i mean, you don´t have to link to the other website, the data they used as going by you is readily available, so why don´t you link us that bit?

[Tinykong]

just as you if i´m not mistaken, i mean, you don´t have to link to the other website, the data they used as going by you is readily available, so why don´t you link us that bit?

Feel free to browse at your leisure:

http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/

[Mayhem]

Feel free to browse at your leisure:

http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/

i can´t find firearm usage or anything related to firearms at all...

[Tinykong]

i can´t find firearm usage or anything related to firearms at all...

Why do you think I've been asking, and asking, and asking for the data from PRE 9-11?

[Mayhem]

Why do you think I've been asking, and asking, and asking for the data from PRE 9-11?

wtf, you wrote the data that rebuttes the study is readily available... i asked for a link and you gave me nothing that rebuttes or even shows any data on the subject