Skipping packs in leveling instances: pointless Wrath remnant.

[Wheater]

I've never been in a group that goes out of the way to wait for pats or hugs walls to avoid pulling. But clearing 100% of brd isn't better xp per hour than killing the 1 boss you need to get the bonus xp and reque.

DPS seem to think they're entitled to something because they had to wait in a que longer. Tanks think they're the leader and try to control the entire situation, and healers usually just follow and heal (mostly an afk job until about 80 anyway). My last monk, druid, and pally I leveled I was top dps, top heals, and top interrupt/cc. Does that make me the boss since I can solo most of the instance? No, but I think it has a lot more weight to it than a dps with full focus/rage/energy auto attacking mobs.

If the tank is doing his job well and wants to skip packs to increase his xp per hour, by all means he's entitled to. If you're doing any good he'll probably share his instant que with you and increase your xp per hour. If you ask nicely to kill an extra mob for a quest or a little more exp to help you level, he'll most likely do it. The problem is the kids who think they're God and pull everything because they hate sitting in ques, then they don't roll on greens so you perpetually can't kick them from the dungeon. That's why tanks get angry.

[Tziva]

I don't think people are skipping packs because they think it's more efficient for XP. For one, I don't think it is more efficient even if you get an insta-queue as a tank or healer (the bonus at the end is not that much - most of your dungeon xp is from the dungeon itself). For two, it's rarely the situation where the DPS are begging to do extra packs and the tank demanding them skip them; in my experience it's usually the entire group silently making that choice as a unit.

I honestly think most people do it out of mindless habit, because they are used to that approach from their years of speeding through heroics while at the level cap, where efficiency getting to the end is paramount and the value of individual mobs is irrelevant.

I've never been in a group that goes out of the way to wait for pats or hugs walls to avoid pulling.

The example off the top of my head that I see pretty much 100% of the time is those two packs when you enter the area for the third and fourth boss in Lost City -- in heroic LC, people would usually skip at least one of them by hugging the far right wall and jumping on the carts and tables. In normal, not only is that XP easily worth the couple seconds it takes to kill them, but half the time you get someone who accidentally gets too close, then you just wasted time trying to avoid them, only to have to kill them anyway. Even less efficient!

There are also some packs in Utguarge Keep at the bottom of the stairs that you can skip if you hug the banister, and you can skip the dude that patrols up and down them if you wait for him to join that pack. That's another one I frequently see groups waiting for so they could skip.

The courtyard in SFK is another area where people may time patrols of geists and ghosts and skip as much packs around the fountain and towards the gate as possible.

There are a lot of other instances, but those are the two obvious ones that come to mind where I find groups skip more often than not. (there are also some dungeons where people skip entire bosses, which is even crazier to me)

But again, I don't think any of these instances are people really mentally calculating the xp:time ratio and deciding to skip. I think it's just an unconscious remnant from doing those players on heroic so many times.

[Airwaves]

Xp from 5 mans is so worthless now days why worry about one pack? Two quests gives you as much xp as the whole dungeon if its more then your first time in that dungeon.

[shokter]

I don't see the big deal either way. Yes, OP has a point, but if that random tank in the LFD is just clearing what is needed then /shrug, move on, and re-q. This too shall pass.

[Pull My Finger]

Let's say you kill 100 packs of mobs over 1 hour of running instances. Killing 100 packs in 1 dungeon is worse then killing 100 packs over 3 dungeons, whilst getting 3 times the random dungeon bonus. Not hard to grasp that notion, i'd say.

Now, you can argue that the queue is long, bla bla. But if you get a good group and run through a couple of dungeons on a row, the faster the better.

Not everyone runs several dungeons in a row.

On topic, I do agree it's kinda dumb. People are so unbelievably mindless sometimes. I've even seen people skip bosses in dungeons like they would do in heroic mode, because they don't need the justice anyway and are only there for the valor. And that's BEYOND retarded. That kind of thing is so stupidly automatized in their heads that they skip the same bosses in normal mode.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

There's a point where the mentality breaks. In the early days of MoP the bat mobs in Palace(?) gave insane exp. Groups would stop at the bat spawned and farm for hours. My roommate got a level in an hour that way.

But let's be honest, mob exp in normal cases is horrible, even if double what a normal mob gives.

[Adramalech]

Usually for me, if a pack is in the way, and to skip it, the group needs to narrowly avoid it by hugging walls and such similar things, I'll kill it if I can. If a boss or mob/pack required for a quest requires a detour, I'll still kill it/them. Only if a pack or boss isn't in the way OR is required for a quest will I skip it without issues. Even then, if I'm asked to kill them for some reason, then I will. My time isn't more valuable than the rest of the group members.

Back in Cataclysm, there was nothing worse for me than running Lost City of the Tol'vir and having a group trying to hug the wall by jumping on the crates to avoid mobs up to the third boss, only to have someone accidentally pull them anyway. That's why when I was tanking, I'd go through the left path instead of the right one. Alliance-side Stockades is annoying too, since many tanks, or groups in general, tend to skip the fire elemental boss to go straight for Hogger, even though Alliance has a quest to kill every boss in that dungeon.

[Drilnos]

Thinking back to 2005 and 2006, I can't remember there being this systemic skipping of packs at every possible turn, mainly because instances back then took an hour or two, perhaps even three. 45 minute Baron was considered a fast run.

Yeah, people skipped shit here and there, but it was Wrath specifically when runs became so fast, 5-15 minutes per heroic, and when people started to have their stable of 10 characters, that everyone just ran to the end boss, killed him, and got their raid-level currency.

That's the mindset and mentality that has been etched into the minds of people; skip whenever you can because the rewards are worth it. Well, they're not worth it in the leveling instances, not anymore anyway.

Think back some more. Look at it this way. If you got yourself into a three hour run, and it was the middle of the night, and you ran back from a wipe to find out all the trash had respawned, did you think "hooray" or "crap"? If you answered "hooray" then you sir are only fooling yourself. Trash is called trash for a reason.

[Kioshi]

Heres an idea, instead of complaing about 4 random people skiping on trash, go find 4 friends and do it all? right? Its like complaining that a Random rock doesn't look or shape the way you want.

[Stormdash]

My only objection is when people start getting into the habit of "shortcuts" that make things take longer. Skipping clearly optional trash is one thing -- trying to thread the needle with a decent chance of body pulling in the totally uncommunicative, uncollaborative process of a random dungeon that you then have to kill anyway, and usually with more than one pack now, that doesn't save anybody any time, that's just stupid. Just kill it on purpose.

In Wrath, I don't remember anyplace that this became more ridiculous than in Old Kingdom.

[Adramalech]

In Wrath, I don't remember anyplace that this became more ridiculous than in Old Kingdom.

Happened a bit in Halls of Lightning too. Not as much as in Old Kingdom, but I got, on multiple occasions, groups that would attempt to narrowly avoid pulling more than one pack in that room full of 3 dwarf packs and some of those vrykul that used to be required for the daily dungeon quest. Obviously, 4 out of 5 times, the result would be pulling far more mobs than we would have pulled if we had intentionally pulled, usually causing deaths that would make the run take longer, or in the case of less geared/sharp groups, a total wipe.

Sometimes, striving to be more efficient isn't a good thing, and trying to skip packs that are in the freaking way and have a good chance of being accidentally pulled is a good example of that.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

My only objection is when people start getting into the habit of "shortcuts" that make things take longer. Skipping clearly optional trash is one thing -- trying to thread the needle with a decent chance of body pulling in the totally uncommunicative, uncollaborative process of a random dungeon that you then have to kill anyway, and usually with more than one pack now, that doesn't save anybody any time, that's just stupid. Just kill it on purpose.

In Wrath, I don't remember anyplace that this became more ridiculous than in Old Kingdom.

Oh yeah. Then you had the last pack in the forge area of grim batol.

[Deleted]

In case of avoiding trash the most notorious is jumping from the bridge in Underbog. 95% of times if you were with randoms at least two people fell, twice. Boss skipping the flame nethermancer in Mechanar says hello.

[Psilar]

Errr, you aren't grasping the idea. You will kill exactly the same number of packs... so, you have the exact same chance for greens, cloth or something more valuable... You simply kill the <same number of pack> throughout more runs, benefiting more from the dungeon completion bonus. Well, except for the 5-30sec loading screen joining the new dungeon.

the simple fact that you don't understand it, doesn't mean its "BS statistics". Why try to explain it if you just ignore the unavoidable facts. More runs, more bonus rewards. Your kill rate is not affected, so you would kill the exact same number of packs you would otherwise... 20 packs per 5 dungeons or 100 packs in a single dungeon over 1hour is the same amount of packs, and xp. You simply kill more bosses and complete more dungeons, getting more xp bonus and items. Simple enough?

Cookie McNuts-> Im talking about out of the way packs, that can be ignored. Not stealthing around or invis pots to avoid packs. That affects kill rate, thus is not worth it. I'm talking about, let's say, the optional boss in Ahn'Aket that is pointless (The fungus guy down the ramp, wayyyy out of the dungeon path), or clearing whole rooms when your progression through the run isn't affect... hence, no 10-15 runs around packs. you would always be attacking something...

Errr you aren't grasping the idea that isn't possible. By queueing into 3 you are often, wasting time and starting over killing lower lvl monsters and getting worse exp.

I've leveled many a toon and ran potentially 1000s of low lvl dungeons. Out the tanks I've leveled I would attempt to hit every dungeon once and kill just about everything imaginable. Multiple random Q's that being the same dungeon's you've done before are not an exp benefit if the gear level is high enough. Which it pretty much always is....

Heirloom tanks can tank so many monsters it is absolutely in their benefit to run a slight zig-zag and pull everything in massive packs.....You can't argue this. Now killing every monster in BRD I can say, is something I've never done...

[Stormdash]

Actually, I think End Time would piss me off for trash skipping. The Baine trash skip was easy enough, plus you could port out/in after the boss was dead. But Jaina. OOOOOH Jaina. She could, would, and did pull any or all of the three packs nearest her when porting. There is no way to predict it or plan for it, so there is no reason on earth to not just go ahead and kill them first. And yet, half the time it felt like, somebody would try to stealth around to summon Jaina and pull her with one, two, or all three of them still up.

[Tankitbetter]

Did no one else doing the steamvault jump trick between 1st and 2nd bosses to avoid like 4 packs?

[Adramalech]

Oh yeah. Then you had the last pack in the forge area of grim batol.

True. Also the dragonkin packs before Baine in End Time, or the whole turning back and crossing the bridge to avoid that immune troll and the piss easy fire trap in Zul'Gurub. Also in End Time, the closest packs to Jaina. Oh how many times did I get groups that decided to skip those and then had Jaina blink into them, causing a wipe.

[shise]

Ye, I never understood people who do that.

It takes about 3 more minutes to clear all the trash... that's nothing.

[fizzbob]

it's called "heroic mindset"

there is a direct route through a dungeon, everything you can kill from that direct route should die and about 50% of it does. people avoid everything but bosses and the xp is shitty.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

In case of avoiding trash the most notorious is jumping from the bridge in Underbog. 95% of times if you were with randoms at least two people fell, twice. Boss skipping the flame nethermancer in Mechanar says hello.

Blizz mandated mob skipping twice when they updated gnomeregan.