Patch 5.2 PTR Mage Changes

[Firebert]

In the end, one way our another, INT will always be our strongest stat (Thanks Cataclysm for simplifying everything)

Due to a tooltip error, I thought that Arcane Mages might add Spirit to their list of stats, as it did say "mana regen whilst casting".

But with only 3 main stats, we're never going to get away from Intellect and Spell Power being our most powerful stats for the forseeable future.

[mrgreenthump]

In the end, one way our another, INT will always be our strongest stat (Thanks Cataclysm for simplifying everything)

Well, yes pretty much, though IF Blizzard manages to balance things out, it doesnt mean gemming would be boring.. its just ye there is a soft cap for haste at 18k rating for arcane and frost.. and that is going to skew things up come 5.4 is my guess.. I mean atm trolls are getting GCD capped at 10k rating so ye there is a slight problem with the haste cap

[Deleted]

Aaand after the great introduction of "scorch does less dmg for arcane mages" now another new star on the talent sky appears: "invocation regs less mana for arcane mages".

it's wonderful how blizzard can't manage to provide 3 talents, of which you can freely chose one, no matter which spec you're currently playing AND not get some kind of restriction.
better nerf something for arcane only than really fix our t6 talent...well...problem.

dropping the stacks with invo...well no one likes that. but it will get arcane's dmg to where it belongs: among the top dd specs. probably even a bit lower...but a dmg nerf HAD to come. the way it actually appeard though...seems like some kind of desperate try to fix a huge issue with the least effort possible.

[Imnick]

Invocation regenerates more mana for Arcane mages though

[mrgreenthump]

Invocation regenerates more mana for Arcane mages though

Indeed it does. 25% per stack with 4 charges, meaning you can go to absolute 0 and still go straight to full, but more interestingly you can now do 3 ticks and cancel and regen 75% mana.. which might prove to be the thing to do unless you need to refresh Incanter's

[Spectral]

I can't say I'm happy about the Freeze change. I know they're making up for it with additional FoF procs from Frostbolt and some extra Frostbolt damage, but I like being able to trigger FoF for movement. Also, it's a more significant loss in cleave situations.

[Shangalar]

How did you all figure that you get 25% mana per stack?

After the new changes, Invocation generates 10% mana per tick for Arcane which is buffed by 25% per Charge. Evocation has 4 ticks. Thus:

0 Charges = 4 x 10% mana
1 Charge = 4 x 12.5% mana
2 Charges = 4 x 15% mana
3 Charges = 4 x 17.5% mana
4 Charges = 4 x 20% mana

With the T15 4-set bonus:

0 Charges = 4 x 10%
1 Charge = 4 x 13%
2 Charges = 4 x 16%
3 Charges = 4 x 19%
4 Charges = 4 x 22%

[Imnick]

Either way it's still either equal or more mana than base (60%) for any Arcane mage above a single Arcane Charge (which is presumably going to be all of them)

[Shangalar]

Of course, I just don't want people thinking they'll be able to go from zero to hero as easily as it sounds and that it will totally be worth it to evocate every 20 seconds.

[Soulstrike]

this invocation changes are sooo confusing :P one day its this next day its that.... gosh :P

ill just wait until its finalized lol XD

[mrgreenthump]

Of course, I just don't want people thinking they'll be able to go from zero to hero as easily as it sounds and that it will totally be worth it to evocate every 20 seconds.

Yerr i prolly read the post wrong, but still its quite a bit of mana we get even with 3 charges

[Shangalar]

I honestly don't want a gameplay where I'm forced to use Evocation for something that it's not meant to do every too often. With Invocation, we use it to refresh Invoker's Energy. Without Invocation, we use it to get back to full mana if needed a minimum of every 2 minutes. All other uses for it, while potentially *powerful*, are very very far from fun and engaging in my book.

[mrgreenthump]

I honestly don't want a gameplay where I'm forced to use Evocation for something that it's not meant to do every too often. With Invocation, we use it to refresh Invoker's Energy. Without Invocation, we use it to get back to full mana if needed a minimum of every 2 minutes. All other uses for it, while potentially *powerful*, are very very far from fun and engaging in my book.

true, but at the same time its the name of the game, when you want to be the very best you can be

[Skidd]

Evocating every 20 seconds seems very counter productive. Any other spec in the game does not have this sort of downtime. What are they thinking with Arcane really? I would love to know their exact thoughts on how they envision arcane to work this way...

[Shangalar]

They don't. It's us, the players, who constantly find loopholes which do more damage, but screw with the intended gameplay.

[Rogge]

Evocating every 20 seconds seems very counter productive. Any other spec in the game does not have this sort of downtime. What are they thinking with Arcane really? I would love to know their exact thoughts on how they envision arcane to work this way...

Evocating every 20 seconds would, ironically, mean you'd spend about as much time evocating as you do on live right now. Twice as often for half as long.

Also, on live right now, evocation gives 60%, but with 10.5k haste, i gain over 80% in the 4.3 seconds it takes to channel one. In 5.2, you probably will get 100% mana in an evocate at 4 stacks.

[Skidd]

Evocating every 20 seconds would, ironically, mean you'd spend about as much time evocating as you do on live right now. Twice as often for half as long.

Also, on live right now, evocation gives 60%, but with 10.5k haste, i gain over 80% in the 4.3 seconds it takes to channel one. In 5.2, you probably will get 100% mana in an evocate at 4 stacks.

I understand that I just think more interruption goes against everything a DPS is supposed to do. Im basically not doing anything but standing there for 3 seconds just so I can DPS again. DPS is supposed to be about utilizing every second doing something to hurt something else. Its all backwards to me. I might go fire for 5.2

[Imnick]

They've already said they don't want people evocating every 20 seconds so if that's what they see on the PTR they're going to change it again

[Deleted]

I can't say I'm happy about the Freeze change. I know they're making up for it with additional FoF procs from Frostbolt and some extra Frostbolt damage, but I like being able to trigger FoF for movement. Also, it's a more significant loss in cleave situations.

If add isn't immune, Freeze still work. And Frozen Orb is a real proc machine now, with the buffed proc rate.
In cleave situation, it's important to choose a primary target and to keep the FB's debuff up so IL can do better damage. IL cleave is at 50% instead of 40%.
For short move, Ice Flow is good but there's nothing for long movement.

[Fichek]

The most ironic thing of them all is that Blizz was trying so hard to make us clear stacks with ABarr. But with the latest change to invocation, we will be clearing stacks with Evo We just keep refusing to press that ABarr button!!