Patch 5.2 PTR Mage Changes

[jtmzac]

And Fire? (Btw I hope "Without Cooldowns" meant AP, AT, and IV. Frozen Orb is part of the normal rotation)

Me trying to get reliable numbers from fire is a very very bad idea so I don't know.

I wasn't using frozen orb but I was doing the arcane rotation wrong. If I was doing the arcane rotation right they would be the same even using frozen orb I think.

[Polarthief]

Me trying to get reliable numbers from fire is a very very bad idea so I don't know.

I wasn't using frozen orb but I was doing the arcane rotation wrong. If I was doing the arcane rotation right they would be the same even using frozen orb I think.

I did some (very, VERY light and non-serious) testing on the dummies at Shrine about a week or so ago. My gear I'm wearing now (reforged and regemmed for C>H>M of course), except I used 5P T15, and I got around 108-110k DPS self buffed (KEEP IN MIND: All DoTs were spreading to the other 3 dummies, including Combustion!). I was also casually testing, so... yeah.

But I'd love to get some actual ST numbers from people who take testing a lot more seriously than I

(Also, I'm not sure how you evaluate Orb for playing arcane wrong, but I'll take your word for it )

[jtmzac]

I did some (very, VERY light and non-serious) testing on the dummies at Shrine about a week or so ago. My gear I'm wearing now (reforged and regemmed for C>H>M of course), except I used 5P T15, and I got around 108-110k DPS self buffed (KEEP IN MIND: All DoTs were spreading to the other 3 dummies, including Combustion!). I was also casually testing, so... yeah.

But I'd love to get some actual ST numbers from people who take testing a lot more seriously than I

(Also, I'm not sure how you evaluate Orb for playing arcane wrong, but I'll take your word for it )

We need to use a standardised set of gear and get people who are good with the spec to provide numbers as I can only really give proper numbers for frost.

I'm sure if somebody hasn't worked it out by the time zomgdps next posts he can tell us all the best way to play arcane.

[Polarthief]

We need to use a standardised set of gear and get people who are good with the spec to provide numbers as I can only really give proper numbers for frost.

I'm sure if somebody hasn't worked it out by the time zomgdps next posts he can tell us all the best way to play arcane.

I mean, I COULD do the testing for Fire, but I am just so fucking LAZY.

(I also just thought of a great way to add cursing to my posts but still block it out for those with virgin eyes )

[jtmzac]

I mean, I COULD do the testing for Fire, but I am just so fucking LAZY.

(I also just thought of a great way to add cursing to my posts but still block it out for those with virgin eyes )

I'm not sure you can really compare fire since we don't have easy access to properly itemised 522 gear and even then fire on a training dummy isn't going to give reliable results.

Blizz should put in phased versions of the training dummies that scale your gear or they could just let us buy any bit of gear from the entire expansion. (I like the second idea best)

[Deleted]

So, I just tested the Haste/Invo "burn" on PTR to see what numbers when can get with the "nerf".
Here it is : http://pbrd.co/YfM6XM
The 2nd mage is a fire mage, higher ilvl than me. Take into account that he's cleaving on those fights, we did another test on a ST raid dummy, he dropped 20% dps.

Thats with : my gear + T15 (499 ilvl). 2/2 Relic + LFR EoT, + 2/2 LFR Lo'shan (yes, my gear is bad )

Rotation : Invo/Burn
I just burn everything to ~30% mana, maximize AM procs (try to use them after evo and with at least 3 stacks), AP/AT while @ 4 stacks and maximum mana possible, evo back up when 30% mana.

Thats, not that bad, but with 500ilvl I was expecting more. I guess it's not the optimal rotation at all, but I don't like ABarr..

[Alias Node]

Is this before or after the HUGE damage nerf to all Arcane spells?

If before, that information is, sadly, irrelevant, at this point.


(I haven't been on PTR in a week or so; I don't know what's currently on there)

Thats on live, i havnt been on ptr

[Cessna]

I don't get why Blizzard thinks like this:

"Apparently, mages didn't enjoy having to build stacks - so they were sitting on 6. Let's force them to drop stacks by nerfing ring of power and making them drop charges with evocation. HAH try dodging stack dropping now mages!"

"Apparently, mages didn't like fire after we nerfed it and made it less fun AND viable. Let's force them to respecc fire every time they need scorch for a fight. HAH let's see what spec you dislike the most now huh?"

Instead of buffing stuff so they can compete, they nerf and change core mechanics so that the specs can be as sucky as the rest.

That's not only for mages though... it goes for the rest of this expansion.

"Apparently, people don't like doing dailies - so they didn't really want to. Let's force them to do dailies by making this the only way to gain rep and elder charms. Especially the last one, because that means we can force them to do dailies for bonus rolls even when they have completed the tedious rep grind! HAH try being done with the daily grind now guys!"

GC even said that "bonus is bonus, you don't need to have the bonus rolls." More ignorance. No respectable guild is going to allow you to skip getting charms because you don't feel like it.

[Deleted]

"We're tweaking Arcane to not be so OP"

"Turns out it was super OP, so we're going to nerf Invo by 50% more MP5"

"That didn't work, so we're reverting it and making Arcane a UP specc now"

Guys, they've added new ideas, reverted them, changed up so many fucking factors. I don't think it's going to be fixable without being OP or UP :\

TBH though for all the shit it goes through, being forced to sit-and-nuke, doesn't it DESERVE to be a little OP?

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 01:14 AM ----------



Because they actually think Blazing Speed will fix our movement issues.

How about scrapping BS for Improved Blink? (70% Movement speed for 3-4s after Blink)

That would be PERFECT. Give us back Improved Blink and remove that SHIT BS... no one ever uses it at all...

And yea, we are powerless on the PTR now.

[Swizzle]

That would be PERFECT. Give us back Improved Blink and remove that SHIT BS... no one ever uses it at all...

And yea, we are powerless on the PTR now.

What? No we're not. Arcane is still solid even after all the changes in PvE, Fire is being bolstered heavily by the new ilvls of gear, and Frost still does extremely well in PvP with the added bonus of FlGlo giving a better buffer against DoT classes.

[Polarthief]

Thats on live, i havnt been on ptr

(Went back and read you said "what's PTR like")

THIS IS WHY I SHOULDN'T TALK TO YOU GUYS AT 5AM DX

I don't get why Blizzard thinks like this:

"Apparently, mages didn't enjoy having to build stacks - so they were sitting on 6. Let's force them to drop stacks by nerfing ring of power and making them drop charges with evocation. HAH try dodging stack dropping now mages!"

"Apparently, mages didn't like fire after we nerfed it and made it less fun AND viable. Let's force them to respecc fire every time they need scorch for a fight. HAH let's see what spec you dislike the most now huh?"

Instead of buffing stuff so they can compete, they nerf and change core mechanics so that the specs can be as sucky as the rest.

That's not only for mages though... it goes for the rest of this expansion.

"Apparently, people don't like doing dailies - so they didn't really want to. Let's force them to do dailies by making this the only way to gain rep and elder charms. Especially the last one, because that means we can force them to do dailies for bonus rolls even when they have completed the tedious rep grind! HAH try being done with the daily grind now guys!"

GC even said that "bonus is bonus, you don't need to have the bonus rolls." More ignorance. No respectable guild is going to allow you to skip getting charms because you don't feel like it.

MoP has been one GIANT scam. It was advertised as the expansion of "options" but it's more like the option of "one specc and dailies, bitch, or play another game and gtfo"

What? No we're not. Arcane is still solid even after all the changes in PvE, Fire is being bolstered heavily by the new ilvls of gear, and Frost still does extremely well in PvP with the added bonus of FlGlo giving a better buffer against DoT classes.

I like how you say "DoT classes" like there's a ton of them. The only DoT CLASS is Warlock, and moreso only Affliction.

Also, "Fire is being bolstered heavily by new iLevels". Okay, what about playing Fire BEFORE getting to 520+?

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 08:38 AM ----------

Decided to check out all the trinkets with the new PPM system, if anything is in error please let me know.


Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance


1467 Critical Strike Rating
7333 Intellect for 10 Seconds

[[[1*1.25]*10] / 60] * 7333= 1527.67 Intellect


Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance = [1467 Critical Strike, Avg. 1528 Intellect]

I just thought of something... How exactly was this one tested?

Keep in mind, it proccs on CRITS, not on spellcasts.

[Rogge]

I just thought of something... How exactly was this one tested?

Keep in mind, it proccs on CRITS, not on spellcasts.

This confuses me too. So it has no ICD. it has 1.00 Real PPM. Haste will give it more up time. But what about proccing on crits? Will the uptime be the same with 20% and 50% crit chance?

[PsyBomb]

This confuses me too. So it has no ICD. it has 1.00 Real PPM. Haste will give it more up time. But what about proccing on crits? Will the uptime be the same with 20% and 50% crit chance?

RPPM works based on time since last chance to proc. If you get a dry spell of no crits, your next crit will have a relatively high chance to trigger. If you get a string of them, each will have a small chance to trigger. Same overall proc rate and average uptime (at least in relation to Crit, Haste causes it to scale up slightly)

[Deleted]

Like all proc, it depend on the number of "proc event".
A "proc on DoT" is better on Fire mage because of the ignite, pyro's dot, etc, than on an arcane mage that depend on only NT.

It's the same for "proc on crit". it will be better for Fire (stacking crit) and Frost (shatter cap) than Arcane (stacking haste or mastery)

[Polarthief]

Like all proc, it depend on the number of "proc event".
A "proc on DoT" is better on Fire mage because of the ignite, pyro's dot, etc, than on an arcane mage that depend on only NT.

It's the same for "proc on crit". it will be better for Fire (stacking crit) and Frost (shatter cap) than Arcane (stacking haste or mastery)

But it'll be a procc event of a procc event, which to me is kinda stupid >_>;

[Deleted]

It's why it have twice the proc rate of the "proc on dot". But for me, it's a good alternative of "proc on dot", espetially for class/spec without DoT.

[Polarthief]

It's why it have twice the proc rate of the "proc on dot". But for me, it's a good alternative of "proc on dot", espetially for class/spec without DoT.

No, a good alternative is having it procc on fucking spellcasts/spellhits.

On DoTs and on crits are by far the worst ways to procc things.

[Akraen]

What? No we're not. Arcane is still solid even after all the changes in PvE, Fire is being bolstered heavily by the new ilvls of gear, and Frost still does extremely well in PvP with the added bonus of FlGlo giving a better buffer against DoT classes.

Please stop perpetuating the idea that Frost is not a PvE spec.

[Swizzle]

Please stop perpetuating the idea that Frost is not a PvE spec.

I'm not, I'm simply saying it's strong in PvP still, which goes against the apparent accepted religion of current Mage posters that Mages are in bad shape, which they're not.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 03:37 PM ----------

I like how you say "DoT classes" like there's a ton of them. The only DoT CLASS is Warlock, and moreso only Affliction.

Also, "Fire is being bolstered heavily by new iLevels". Okay, what about playing Fire BEFORE getting to 520+?

In PvP? Warlocks, Spriests, Moonkins, Ferals (to a lesser extent), Rogues, UH DKs, and Fire Mages. FlGlo is a pretty potent PvP talent that will be swapped with IB depending on the comp, which is ultimately a success in talent design.

As for Fire...it gets better as you get better gear, what more do you want? That's how things work. Go Arcane or Frost for normal farming, then switch to Fire for heroics. OMG, how complicated is that??!

[Akraen]

I'm hyper-sensitive Swizzle, too many people completely ignore frost viability. It's a mentality.

I'm 100% with you Swizz though, mages are fine. Sure we have problems, but the numbers pass didn't even happen yet and major L90 talent changes will probably happen in 6.0. Sky isn't falling, we're a thousand times better than we were in Cataclysm.

As for Fire...it gets better as you get better gear, what more do you want? That's how things work. Go Arcane or Frost for normal farming, then switch to Fire for heroics. OMG, how complicated is that??!

No, stay frost for heroics.