Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[Tramzh]

It has been said before, but Glyph of UA doesn't bring anything new to Affliction: albeit the cast time is reduced, the GCD is unchanged. The cast time is equal to the GCD, and both go down at the same rate with Haste.

It is a 0 DPS improvement in PvE, and is only intended for PvP purposes where GCD concerns are second to actually finishing that cast before being Kicked.

It will be a DPS increase no matter how u put it. It allows for increased movement capability which turns into making moving out of fire easier and indirectly increases ur dps. It doesn't increase your DPS on patchwerk, but how many of those fights are there in ToT anyway?
Yeah, we got KjC but I still think the glyph will be mandatory.

[Deleted]

'cause you don't use KJC? Just asking, seems weird

[Rakaji]

Did anybody test demo on horridon? How do pets/fellguards do with regards to sand/poison pools and the boss cleaves? Just wondering if they will die easilystanding in them whilst aoeing or whether afflic sac maybe the way to go.

On the method 10 video sparkuggz topped as affliction but unsure at what point of the ptr balance stage it was at

Pets "should" take heavily reduced damage from AoE and things like that, so it shouldn't even be an issue.

Also, Sparkuggz's video @ Horridon was recorded over a month ago (unless there's a newer one I didn't notice), so things have changed quite a bit since then.

[pokeadott]

Casting while moving makes a huge difference, however the game is currently too screwed up for anybody to realize. You could follow opponents LoSing you, give yourself those extra 0.5 sec to avoid getting interrupted by that melee charging at you, etc...

Agree that it's too much rework for now, but do you really think that statement is true?

There are currently 3 dps that can cast while moving - Locks(all)/Ele/Fire. I've played them all in PvP (more lock/fire than ele tbf) with and without KC/Imp scorch/LB Glyph and honestly there is almost no noticeable difference from an effectiveness standpoint. If anything, currently playing with KC or Scorch just causes me to get interrupted more often than I should be (honestly - I feel like do more effective and reliable dmg when I'm just using FF or Inferno Blasts instead of Scorch and Incins).

I'm not saying it has no advantages, but I think they are very small. You can't reliably catch up to someone LoSing you (you can force them to continue moving I guess). You can cast and kite, but I have no issues kiting when gap closers are on CD anyway. And when they are off CD, they aren't really avoidable. Look at Hunters now, they do 100% of their dmg on the move, but no one really cares about it. Issues with hunters surround crazy pet-related burst, instant insane CC, etc.

It's the instant casts that cause all the issues. Shift damage away from them to Casted spells, and I think you could safely give mobile dps casting to all classes without hurting pvp.

[Tramzh]

Any BiS lists in the makingz? I've only seen discussions about the trinkets. As there's quiet an amount of different items to choose from I think this would be nice to have going into 5.2.

[Phoenexis]

Agree that it's too much rework for now, but do you really think that statement is true?

There are currently 3 dps that can cast while moving - Locks(all)/Ele/Fire. I've played them all in PvP (more lock/fire than ele tbf) with and without KC/Imp scorch/LB Glyph and honestly there is almost no noticeable difference from an effectiveness standpoint. If anything, currently playing with KC or Scorch just causes me to get interrupted more often than I should be (honestly - I feel like do more effective and reliable dmg when I'm just using FF or Inferno Blasts instead of Scorch and Incins).

I'm not saying it has no advantages, but I think they are very small. You can't reliably catch up to someone LoSing you (you can force them to continue moving I guess). You can cast and kite, but I have no issues kiting when gap closers are on CD anyway. And when they are off CD, they aren't really avoidable. Look at Hunters now, they do 100% of their dmg on the move, but no one really cares about it. Issues with hunters surround crazy pet-related burst, instant insane CC, etc.

It's the instant casts that cause all the issues. Shift damage away from them to Casted spells, and I think you could safely give mobile dps casting to all classes without hurting pvp.

Yes, but like I said casting on the move right now is overshadowed by the disgusting amount of instants. For Elemental to be honest I have a hard time imagining how that spec could have been viable during Cata without LB on the move, just because of the amount of damage you can avoid by reducing melee uptime. I mean, hardcasting while a melee comp is melting your face felt like suicide unless you knew you were going to score a kill. Same goes for myself when playing Destruction: It was DoT up, Shadowflame and Felflame when being chased by DK+Ret, Incinerate if 20 miles away or needed pressure. I do realize that right now it doesn't make that much of a difference because of all the instants, but if hardcasting were to become viable again, could you imagine 4.2 Frost Mages and Affliction warlocks with a permanent KjC?

[pokeadott]

could you imagine 4.2 Frost Mages and Affliction warlocks with a permanent KjC?

Eh, yes and no. If we live in the future of less instant cast dmg, then I assume shatters become frostbolt and very little from ice lance/orb. If that's the case, then I don't think it would be crazy for frost to have KC. Same goes for Aff now - our instants are already pretty awful, so it's actually somewhat balanced. If Aff gets it's old DoT strength back and the beast that was Drain Soul back in the day, then I agree KC is too much. But for modern Aff, I think it's fine.

Honestly, the biggest thing with mobile casting is the fun element. I'd take any nerfs deemed appropriate to be able to have that playstyle on all casters for the pure fun of not standing still. I don't love KC because it boosts my raid dmg, I love KC, because I can jump around like a crack monkey while doing my normal thing.

[Teye]

Sinister Primal Diamond – 1.18 base RealPPM on damage/absorb of harmful or periodic spell. No ICD.
- That base proc rate is multiplied by an additional coefficient:
Demonology: 0.519
Affliction: 0.610
Destruction: 9.631

I don't even know what to say about the fact that they apparently think Demonology needs a lower RPPM for this Gem than Affliction... Really pathetic work on Blizzard's part. Also, its now fairly obvious that they've been balancing Destruction around having an insanely high uptime on this Gem.

As far as Demonology is concerned, if its a choice between this Meta and the one we have now, the one we have now is probably far better.

[Hellfury]

That 9 on destro is clearly a typo, given the proxity of the keys.

[Scathbais]

[QUOTE=Teye;20416114]I don't even know what to say about the fact that they apparently think Demonology needs a lower RPPM for this Gem than Affliction... Really pathetic work on Blizzard's part. Also, its now fairly obvious that they've been balancing Destruction around having an insanely high uptime on this Gem.

ah nevermind, this has to be a typo. napkin math shows this to be 100% uptimefor destro at 10+ppm.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 04:39 PM ----------

I don't even know what to say about the fact that they apparently think Demonology needs a lower RPPM for this Gem than Affliction... Really pathetic work on Blizzard's part. Also, its now fairly obvious that they've been balancing Destruction around having an insanely high uptime on this Gem.

As far as Demonology is concerned, if its a choice between this Meta and the one we have now, the one we have now is probably far better.

THere is no internal cool down and demo probably has more opportunities to proc it with 3 dots and multiple instant cast spells.

[LordRvh]

For Affliction Locks tomorrow, how much Mastery are we dropping for Haste tomorrow due to GoSup > GoSac (until our gear scales for GoSac)?

[Deleted]

New patch notes don't seem to mention the 35% buff to Haunt and Affy GrimSac is still at 35% instead of 30%. Also Glyph of UA seems mandatory which was something I thought Blizzard was trying to move away from. A lot of buffs to Demonology as well, I look forward to learning Demo again if it comes out on top

afaik its 30% to huant nad not 35% but i might have missed something. i wouldnt say glyph of ua is mandatory, personally, i would say glyph of demon training is mandatory as it seems that they want us to use pets atleast during normal throne of thunder and the fact that i saw fel imp do 40-41k dps during ptr hc testing which i found to be rather insane but ofc they had scaled up gear or the fel imp might have been bugged, so that might have been the reason but it certainly made me seriously consider the GoSup afflic option.

[Zinnin]

THere is no internal cool down and demo probably has more opportunities to proc it with 3 dots and multiple instant cast spells.

That isn't how rPPM works. rPPM takes into account the time between proc-able events and makes it so the speed of your abilities doesn't do anything to uptime.

Look at boomkin \ ele shaman rPPM values is well....maybe its some crack brain way of balancing.

[Deleted]

If Balance is at 6 why not Destro at 9
Not sure what this really means, how much uptime could me expect with such a high value ?

[Teye]

I'm still blown away by the notion that Affliction will garner less of a benefit from this Gem than Demonology. Do they have no idea how Haste works for Affliction in comparison to how it works for Demonology?

[Deleted]

well, could have something to do with the fact that affliction have dots or channeling spells so there is a longer amount of time between proc events where as demo has more proc events since they cast more dd spells on shorter casttime.

[Bonkura]

For Affliction Locks tomorrow, how much Mastery are we dropping for Haste tomorrow due to GoSup > GoSac (until our gear scales for GoSac)?

Nothing has changed.

[EvreliaGaming]

Nothing has changed.

Haste has increased in value by a small amount, but not enough that should encourage significant reforge changes.

[Teye]

well, could have something to do with the fact that affliction have dots or channeling spells so there is a longer amount of time between proc events where as demo has more proc events since they cast more dd spells on shorter casttime.

RPPM accounts for time between proc chances with an increased proc chance for every tenth of a second that's gone by, up to 10 seconds.

[Rtrain]

Any BiS lists in the makingz? I've only seen discussions about the trinkets. As there's quiet an amount of different items to choose from I think this would be nice to have going into 5.2.

Just like to address this for a second. Their prob will be a BiS list but I doubt most people will use it, everyone will end up with at least a few thunderforged items which may not be BiS otherwise. This wil make reforging different and other pieces possibly more desirable.

Ideally, I guess you follow the BiS list and just get BiS thunderforged items when possible, but with so much loot I dont see this happening in practice .