5.2 Shaman changes

[Deleted]

You're using data that isn't from 5.2 to argue about class balance in 5.2.

And those casters don't really "freely stack Haste". Shadow and Affliction both aim for caps and then don't want any more. Their caps are more determined by the addition of an extra tick rather than cast times, but it's the same idea.



No, it's just based on a misunderstanding of what our issues were. Elemental hasn't had a gear scaling issue since 4.0/4.1. That doesn't we didn't have OTHER issues, but that issue basically existed for one tier and was fixed in 4.2.

Saying that Affliction stacks haste for caps only is bullshit. It has the same value (slightly lower with GoSac; slightly higher with GoSup) as mastery between caps.

[Endus]

First off i'm arguing about the general approach of Blizzard to buff Elemental and pointing out that the tools they use now were used in the past as well and proved not to be enough on the long run.

They worked just fine in the past. We also needed OTHER tweaks, but so id everyone else. Because class balance is ongoing and never finished; it's a process, not a solution.

The only change in that direction was a 12% buff to Shamanism and that fix'd it?

In 4.2?

They made a bunch of other changes, like adding Glyph of Unleashed Lightning and overhauling AoE a bit. That wasn't quite enough, so they bumped Shamanism. And then Elemental was a strong spec for the rest of the patch, yes. It fixed it. We dipped a bit in 4.3 when we were overhauled after the loss of the T12 set bonuses, but we remained competitive even so.

Again; balance is a never-ending continuous process. That the devs tweak things every patch is not an indication that they've made a mistake. Class balance isn't something that can be achieved and then you're done tweaking.

[Kralljin]

They worked just fine in the past. We also needed OTHER tweaks, but so id everyone else. Because class balance is ongoing and never finished; it's a process, not a solution.

Subjective matter but Elemental never felt during Wotlk like a "middle of the pack" dps, always slightly below avg.

In 4.2?
They made a bunch of other changes, like adding Glyph of Unleashed Lightning and overhauling AoE a bit. That wasn't quite enough, so they bumped Shamanism. And then Elemental was a strong spec for the rest of the patch, yes. It fixed it. We dipped a bit in 4.3 when we were overhauled after the loss of the T12 set bonuses, but we remained competitive even so.

I am solely talking about this line.

Elemental hasn't had a gear scaling issue since 4.0/4.1. That doesn't we didn't have OTHER issues, but that issue basically existed for one tier and was fixed in 4.2.

And i said that Shamanism was the only buff in terms of patchwerk dps, i did not mention unleashed Lightning.

That the devs tweak things every patch is not an indication that they've made a mistake.

But i think the continous buff of a talent is one, as it shows that they constantly overestimated this buff and it's effects.

[Endus]

But i think the continous buff of a talent is one, as it shows that they constantly overestimated this buff and it's effects.

The reason this isn't true is because it falsely presumes that the context within which that change is made each time has remained the same, and it objectively has not.

[zenga]

(source)
Vanguards: How do you feel about the balance of PvP in terms of map choices? How do you feel about the balance of PvP in terms of map choices? Some maps greatly help certain compositions such as Warlocks on Blade’s Edge -- they can jump down, port up, and with a Druid on the team they can both do that and knock people off.

Brian Holinka: I think Blade's edge and Dalaran Arena were made in a time when knock-offs didn't exist. So, all I can say is that we're aware of that and changes are forthcoming this season.

Looks as if thunderstorm utility in arena might take a hit ...

[Arctorus]

I for one am incredibly pleased with my damage so far as Elemental, especially on Horridon. In our current state, it's an Ele wet dream scenario. The enhance shaman in our group couldn't hold a candle to my dps. Council I'm really struggling to keep up with multi-dotters but my dps is being put to where it matters, even if the logs don't show me on top of the charts. Higher single target gets you through each empower faster and I can burn down the sand adds like no body's business. I'm excited to see the rest of the tier.

[Devious009]

I for one am incredibly pleased with my damage so far as Elemental, especially on Horridon. In our current state, it's an Ele wet dream scenario. The enhance shaman in our group couldn't hold a candle to my dps. Council I'm really struggling to keep up with multi-dotters but my dps is being put to where it matters, even if the logs don't show me on top of the charts. Higher single target gets you through each empower faster and I can burn down the sand adds like no body's business. I'm excited to see the rest of the tier.

Glad to hear and congratz so far, might be a bit early but whats the impressions you got so far about Lighting Bolt's damage and the buff to Clear casting ? noticing steady sustained dps so far on single target dps ? (bolded that last part so people dont confused it with multi dot fights)

[SamoTray]

Glad to hear and congratz so far, might be a bit early but whats the impressions you got so far about Lighting Bolt's damage and the buff to Clear casting ? noticing steady sustained dps so far on single target dps ? (bolded that last part so people dont confused it with multi dot fights)

yea i have noticed the Shamanism buff big time, but with the tier 14 2 set lb is Critting god offly close to what lvb crits 4. lvb is still critting 4 more but its really close only about 2-3k more its really starting to scare me honestly. if we do happen to need further buffs down the road they will either have to do it through clearcasting again or they will have no choice but to buff Lvb which we all know they really do not want to do

[Nebria]

yea i have noticed the Shamanism buff big time, but with the tier 14 2 set lb is Critting god offly close to what lvb crits 4. lvb is still critting 4 more but its really close only about 2-3k more its really starting to scare me honestly. if we do happen to need further buffs down the road they will either have to do it through clearcasting again or they will have no choice but to buff Lvb which we all know they really do not want to do

we already had this discussion here please don't start a new one. when you lose 2pc t14 the damage is 5% lower on LB so you might not be scared anymore anyway

[Tomikadzi]

I just got info that CL base damage was reduced by like 20%. So, total damage is 80+80+80 instead of 100+70+40. Can anyone confirm it?

[EruptorNZ]

I just got info that CL base damage was reduced by like 20%. So, total damage is 80+80+80 instead of 100+70+40. Can anyone confirm it?

The tooltip appears to be back to 5.0/5.1?

[Tomikadzi]

The tooltip appears to be back to 5.0/5.1?

The tooltip is 5.1, yes, but i was told that damaged itself was reduced

[Deleted]

Haven't really kept up because I quit the game after 8 years, but how are the (very) early results?

[zenga]

Haven't really kept up because I quit the game after 8 years, but how are the (very) early results?

In the same position like Cercle atm.

[Shoo]

I just got info that CL base damage was reduced by like 20%. So, total damage is 80+80+80 instead of 100+70+40. Can anyone confirm it?

Where is that info coming from -can you confirm it? If this is true - this will suck big time being nerfed at the very start of the patch...

[Nebria]

Where is that info coming from -can you confirm it? If this is true - this will suck big time being nerfed at the very start of the patch...

well the overall dps is higher with > 2 targets
don't know if they really changed it have not yet tested it.

but if they changed it it was a last minute stealth nerf as mmo-champions datamining did not noticed a change in the last ptr builds

[orderschvank]

well the overall dps is higher with > 2 targets
don't know if they really changed it have not yet tested it.

but if they changed it it was a last minute stealth nerf as mmo-champions datamining did not noticed a change in the last ptr builds

well you know, cuz of the raging.. that i would also partake in

[Endus]

Stealth nerfs we usually catch with the datamining; they'd involve changing the numbers, somewhere, and that's what datamining excels at. The stuff we can't catch through datamining is the stuff that doesn't exist in tooltips and the like; if they changed a coefficient for how much Crit scaled, for instance. Usually what they mean by a "stealth nerf" is something we DO catch through datamining that isn't in the patch notes.

I haven't seen any evidence that CL's been nerfed.

[Deleted]

Have anyone noticed Elemental Blast slightly upgraded animation? Now instead of green-nature LvB-like bolt, is Thunder one.

[Booniehat]

Stealth nerfs we usually catch with the datamining; they'd involve changing the numbers, somewhere, and that's what datamining excels at. The stuff we can't catch through datamining is the stuff that doesn't exist in tooltips and the like; if they changed a coefficient for how much Crit scaled, for instance. Usually what they mean by a "stealth nerf" is something we DO catch through datamining that isn't in the patch notes.

I haven't seen any evidence that CL's been nerfed.

If anything, my chain lightning damage was ridiculous today. On Trash packs, I would wait over 10-15 seconds for tank to establish threat (the other raid members were already aoeing by 3-5 seconds), spam the CL key and still pull threat due to insane DPS. :O Do we even have a threat dump key :X