Is blizzard pulling a blizzard on pvp again?

[Feranor]

Well, I'm not sure there actually is a substantial amount of people playing WoW for its PvP. Everyone I've had the chance to talk to directly has either played PvP as a mini-game besides raiding (which appears to be Blizzard's stance on it as well) or has turned out to be ignorant of what decent PvP is (i.e. WoW has just been the best they've ever known).

Personally I don't really PvP at all at the moment, I just raid 2-3 nights a week with a couple of friends who started raiding again after GW2 had died. Open PvP is nonexistent, regular BGs are too easy, Arena is garbage and RBGs are a major PITA to organize (plus what you already said about Blizz failing to get Damage/Healing/CC under control for almost 8 years). So, meh.

[DeathKnight Guy]

Very sad to see people like this on forums. Just cause someone doesn't play or do something anymore and get replies like this is beyond low life.

That's like saying an ex-professional athlete in X sport doesn't know anything about the current version of that same X sport, just because they retired or quit playing it.

I know what I'm talking about cause I did play WoW from BC through Cataclysm. I know about Vanilla WoW as my cousin was playing then and was a highly rank PvP character as he got gladiator back then on his Paladin and Druid.

The point of this thread is asking is Blizzard still saying the same thing they said in WotLK and Cataclysm and if so, why do you continue to flock to them? An above poster mentioned a good point which Blizzard does influence the MMO RPG market and by them not showing the leadership to address their own PvP, why should others if they keep the same people playing the same version over and over.

I remember people hating EA cause of the endless NCAA Football game which was basically the same game but updated graphics and a neat franchise update which all could of been a minor or major patch to the previous game but instead, pay $60 for basically the same game.
Yet from what I see with the PvP in WoW is exactly the same thing as EA doing the NCAA gaming. You all got high hopes for PvP and then its the same thing over and over; Healing is OP, Burst is out of Control, CC is too powerful, Mages (x class) are OP every expansion and no sight of fixes to lower them, etc.

Say what you want and believe what you want, I'm just curious of why you play a game that is basically a copy of its self (in terms of PvP, PvE is different and they do a great job in general with story line and PvE content).

Well said, I think they are all answering with the same "you don't play, it doesn't concern you" sentence. The fact is they are too sad to recognise what is happening to pvp so instead of providing solutions, they choose to bash.

[Znuff]

PvP people will never be happy whatever Blizzard does to their own PvP system.

There will always be whiners that a class is overpowered and that another one needs nerfs. Deal with it.

[Deleted]

I made a post as well, when I quit pvp mid-cata it was dying in the competitve field with many good players quitting. I heard snutz and talbadar left as well but looking for confirmation to that.
As far as I understand a lot of people fell for blizzards statement "mist of pandaria will bring back the war in warcraft" and expected it to be the pvp expansion of the motherlords. Did it happen? I havent ready any people saluting the epicness of wow pvp ever since the xpac launched, so I guess players got fooled again. But feel free to prove me wrong, there are perhaps reviews on the game that salute wow pvp progress that mention some updates or change of content that were in fact gamebreaking.

[Feranor]

I made a post as well, when I quit pvp mid-cata it was dying in the competitve field with many good players quitting. I heard snutz and talbadar left as well but looking for confirmation to that.
As far as I understand a lot of people fell for blizzards statement "mist of pandaria will bring back the war in warcraft" and expected it to be the pvp expansion of the motherlords. Did it happen? I havent ready any people saluting the epicness of wow pvp ever since the xpac launched, so I guess players got fooled again. But feel free to prove me wrong, there are perhaps reviews on the game that salute wow pvp progress that mention some updates or change of content that were in fact gamebreaking.

My guess had been that all they had planned on doing was bringing back some PvE Horde vs. Alliance content. Which they did, in the form of horrible grind quests. No surprises there.

[Osmeric]

Keep in mind, you're talking about a company that thinks a tie in capture the flag shouldn't be a tie or go into overtime. They obviously don't have a clue about how competition should be. They're good developers in general, but in this area they're awful.

Wait, are you talking about the "last capture wins" rule? That rule is a very good idea.

[Darksoldierr]

I know about Vanilla WoW as my cousin was playing then and was a highly rank PvP character as he got gladiator back then on his Paladin and Druid.

Gladiator ranks came in TBC, not in Vanilia.

[malbojia]

@op the people bashing you and supporting Blizz are lemmings they try to invalidate every complaint about their beloved game...which I have played since the original beta.

PVP in this game is shit LOL has better pvp and is FTP.

[Terridon]

Apart from all the things said about your concern for the game you don't play, i don't think you've read the blues with open eyes.
Overall they seem less vague about pvp than usual.
Stating that they think the burst are too high, so they want to nerf that (albeit slowly). When that's fixed they will reduce the healing, to compensate for that.
They've added changes to warriors allready, and have more incoming from the 5.2-notes. Havn't looked the past days, but since they've said hunters have too much burst too, they probably add some to that

I agree some classes are vastly better than others, but it's not as stupid at it has been in some of the other patches. I just wait and see, what happens, but can enjoy it without playing one of the top classes with spec. I get nuked to the ground sometimes, but overall i get to have fun :P

Wait, are you talking about the "last capture wins" rule? That rule is a very good idea.

Agreed. Might feel wrong, but it avoids people just giving up on the bg when the first flag is captured, since you then need 2 flags to have a chance to win.
And the everlasting fun of "tie" with nobody capturing a flag, og GY-farming for hours because the game can't end before one wins is probably to oversee for most people, so i think it's good that last capture wins, and there's a timelimit that is set.

[Tenjen]

you should see what the developers of other mmo's do. Especially sony's mmo handlers *breathes for a moment*

Blizz's dev team and costumer contact is the best ive seen in the industry. And most of these "bandaids" as you call them are them testing the waters to see what responds, rather than throwing in a big set of changes, they slowly mold and shift it to a better situation, which works out better to deal with problems that arise or with remolding or finding out what the environment will best respond to (rather than guessing which changes did it in a sea of changes or incorrectly crediting a particular set of changes in a sea of applied changes when they actually didnt influence the positive response (which screws up things later on when the experience built on that falsehood is applied and doesnt result in the same positive outcome and they go wtf it didnt work?). Many minor changes over time that form a larger whole is a good way to go about such a sensitive system.

Blizz has an unprecedented level of interaction with their costumer group for better and worse but overall for the better in the end. You have to go cross-genre to name companies who are at this level and even then there are only so many names that come up.

Plus seriously. I've been seeing this goddamn posts since the start of vanilla. I dont even waste salt on them unless its a comment pushing out numbers on ability perfomance and cross-class combat schemes with suggestions for improvement and/or highlights on points of performance gaps.

A lot of people who used to do that have ofcourse grown much older over the years with life pulling them away from wow or the natural flow of life events pathing away from wow (at the least, not allowing for the focus they could put on it before) and they've moved on or simply dont game anymore. We dont have many who have taken their place in the community and i sorely miss them.

Iam just happy blizz arent the sort to deliberately reset a dragon boss meant to be undefeatable that the players are just about managing to defeat after a huge time commitment across many large groups.

[Deleted]

I made a post as well, when I quit pvp mid-cata it was dying in the competitve field with many good players quitting. I heard snutz and talbadar left as well but looking for confirmation to that.
As far as I understand a lot of people fell for blizzards statement "mist of pandaria will bring back the war in warcraft" and expected it to be the pvp expansion of the motherlords. Did it happen? I havent ready any people saluting the epicness of wow pvp ever since the xpac launched, so I guess players got fooled again. But feel free to prove me wrong, there are perhaps reviews on the game that salute wow pvp progress that mention some updates or change of content that were in fact gamebreaking.

Let me put it simple: If theres no easy way to dismount and force players into equal level fighting, then a war will never EVER happen.

Sure you can say that world pvp is a bit live again but its as fun as trying to snipe sheeps from a tower. Dont understand why people argue with me all the time, or yes i understand, its like the bands i listen to. Sure some albums are bad but when someone says so i ignore everything he says and go "YOURE WRONG" because i know that hes right but i love it. The arguments ive gotten in my threads havent changed me a bit.

Perhaps because 90% of the people here that replies to threads are threadowners that ignores what has been said and repeat the same crap ive been saying in the OP and telling me im wrong.

Oh yeah btw sniping reminded me of TF2. Im going to DL it again. Atleast its more fun to play a Sniper camping areas than playing this game..

[Thalais]

Gladiator ranks came in TBC, not in Vanilia.

You are correct, it was a general ranking if I recall was in Vanilla and gladiator came in TBC because of the creation of arena.

[Orangetai420]

Very sad to see people like this on forums. Just cause someone doesn't play or do something anymore and get replies like this is beyond low life.

That's like saying an ex-professional athlete in X sport doesn't know anything about the current version of that same X sport, just because they retired or quit playing it.

I know what I'm talking about cause I did play WoW from BC through Cataclysm. I know about Vanilla WoW as my cousin was playing then and was a highly rank PvP character as he got gladiator back then on his Paladin and Druid.

Wow, must have been tough getting glad back in vanilla....

>_>

[shell]

I don't play the game no more but I do enjoy reading these blue posts and how vague they are.

So is Blizzard still not going to fix PvP and throw more bandaids at a system that has been broken since it first entered the world back in Vanilla WoW?

I ask this because they seem to do more dodging than answering. Burst is a problem, well duh, you make people strong enough to dps down a 1 billion health dragon, how do they not deal enough burst to kill a 400,000 health player? They wont make separate numbers for all abilities; 1 set for pve and 1 set for pvp which would fix everything up to 90% of the game issues which is what I have seen in every expansion and never resolved: 1. Burst too high, 2. Heals too high, 3. Classes with CC still deal as much damage as classes with little CC.

Is it just me or how long will you people continue to accept this kind of crap development from any game, not just WoW? Why is it so hard for people to realize that PvP and PvE are completely different styles of play and need to be separated? It just bothers me as a gamer to see this same mistake played over and over in just about every MMO RPG.

I'm kind of sad and sicken by this continue trend to not fix the issue.

Should pve and pvp be separate? Sure. However, I'm not sure it would have the effect players are looking for. Basically, it would make the numbers easier to adjust but that doesn't mean there would be a level playing field. The devs are, for instance, okay with spec A doing more single target damage, while spec B does better in fights with 2 targets, and spec C does better with 3+; similarly, they are ok with spec A being a tank healer, spec B being stronger in stacked fights, and spec C being the stronger healer in fights that are spread out.

My breakdown is probably garbage but the point is they're ok with specs having niches. It works well for a 10/25-man raid but doesn't work as well for 3s, which is what they try to balance pvp around.

Next to being able to adjust numbers separately, I think the bracket they try to balance around just isn't working. If 3's are more balanced than 2's its probably by degrees. Seems to me its the equivalent of balancing pve around scenarios or 5-man dungeons. There's a reason pve is balanced around raids but for some reason they're stuck on trying to balance pvp around 3v3. I realize its not strict but that's where they've stated most of their balancing decisions come from.

I like arena as much as the next player but when the best thing we have to say about 3's is "well... it's more balanced than 2's" that's not exactly a brilliant testament to its level of balance.

[Dundebuns]

I bet a lot of the people dissing the OP fir having an opinion on a game he doesn't play have given their opinions on a national sport of some description.

I don't think Blizzards general attitude to PvP has changed much since arenas. It's been pretty dismissive.

[Thalais]

Wow, must have been tough getting glad back in vanilla....

>_>

Look above your cocky post and you will see that I made a mistake (OMG THAT CANT HAPPEN EVER ON FORUMS; MISTAKES).
Instead of posting stupid replies and yes this is a stupid reply, why not actually answer the question I asked or discuss the state of WoW PvP as a whole or do something about PvP instead of trying to be a smart ass?

[Deleted]

what I dont get is this pvp power mess,it gets so high that the actual remaining resilience is lower then it was in past expansions....
What was the point of giving baseline 40% resilience if it's all going to get gutted by pvp power?

[Thalais]

what I dont get is this pvp power mess,it gets so high that the actual remaining resilience is lower then it was in past expansions....
What was the point of giving baseline 40% resilience if it's all going to get gutted by pvp power?

The goal of PvP Power was to separate PvE items from PvP in PvP since PvE trinkets have always been better than PvP outside of the CC removal trinket which if you were human, you didn't need it.

The entire resilience issue was to make PvP more open to PvE but as you have said, PvP power just blows up Resilience, even with the bonus 40% baseline.
The issue is; PvP power makes other classes that were already too strong, even stronger. There isn't a way to balance your PvP without making two different number system.

Example: Frost Bolt deals 150,000 vs dragon, Crits for 300,000
Frost Bolt deals 90,000 vs player with 40% base resilience, Crits for 180,000

Lightning Bolt deals 140,000 vs dragon, crits for 350,000 (ele has 250% crit damage bonus)
Lightning Bolt deals 84,000 vs player with 40% base Resilience, Crits for 210,000 (same as above 250%)

With crit being lower proc rate, lets focus on the normal damage. So now introduce PvP power which increases damage by 40% from items. Now Frost Bolt is dealing 150,000 damage to players as it negates the 40% resilience and LB deals 140,000 damage.
What is the point of giving 40% base resilience when PvP power overrides it and even stack Resilience vs stack PvP power, PvP power wins out.

No matter how you look at it, if no crits and frost bolt vs lightning bolt, if both have same health and both cast same speed (this doesn't happen ever but for discussion purpose) Frost Bolt deals more damage and will win.

Now, lets say PvP changes those damages to deal 40,000 damage both to players and let them build their own stats; haste, crit, mastery, and let the players play on equal grounds and let them build their own builds.

The players have no control of their characters in this game currently. X classes with most burst will win vs X classes with less burst. The issue hasn't been solved. You need to let the players build their own character to fit their play style and balance the game by adjusting the damage to players from their abilities without using things like Resilience and PvP power to throw the numbers off into radical directions; which is what we have now.

Resilience and PvP power are part of the problem, along with no separate numbers for the abilities.

[shell]

The goal of PvP Power was to separate PvE items from PvP in PvP since PvE trinkets have always been better than PvP outside of the CC removal trinket which if you were human, you didn't need it.

The entire resilience issue was to make PvP more open to PvE but as you have said, PvP power just blows up Resilience, even with the bonus 40% baseline.
The issue is; PvP power makes other classes that were already too strong, even stronger. There isn't a way to balance your PvP without making two different number system.

Example: Frost Bolt deals 150,000 vs dragon, Crits for 300,000
Frost Bolt deals 90,000 vs player with 40% base resilience, Crits for 180,000

Lightning Bolt deals 140,000 vs dragon, crits for 350,000 (ele has 250% crit damage bonus)
Lightning Bolt deals 84,000 vs player with 40% base Resilience, Crits for 210,000 (same as above 250%)

With crit being lower proc rate, lets focus on the normal damage. So now introduce PvP power which increases damage by 40% from items. Now Frost Bolt is dealing 150,000 damage to players as it negates the 40% resilience and LB deals 140,000 damage.
What is the point of giving 40% base resilience when PvP power overrides it and even stack Resilience vs stack PvP power, PvP power wins out.

No matter how you look at it, if no crits and frost bolt vs lightning bolt, if both have same health and both cast same speed (this doesn't happen ever but for discussion purpose) Frost Bolt deals more damage and will win.

Now, lets say PvP changes those damages to deal 40,000 damage both to players and let them build their own stats; haste, crit, mastery, and let the players play on equal grounds and let them build their own builds.

The players have no control of their characters in this game currently. X classes with most burst will win vs X classes with less burst. The issue hasn't been solved. You need to let the players build their own character to fit their play style and balance the game by adjusting the damage to players from their abilities without using things like Resilience and PvP power to throw the numbers off into radical directions; which is what we have now.

Resilience and PvP power are part of the problem, along with no separate numbers for the abilities.

Ooh, I wish my Lightning Bolt crit for 84,000 much less hit for that much . Yes, yes I know you were just using it as an example, hence the smiley face.

Adding to your point, I think pvp power just exacerbates problems. I like the 'idea' of pvp power but I also think there were better ways to keep players from wearing pve trinkets and weapons. I just don' think it was implemented properly.

Besides that it is meant to keep pve trinkets out, it is also meant to be a tuning knob, so that if damage/healing gets too high they can adjust it. They've done that with hybrid healing, and healing in general; healers don't get as much benefit from power as damage dealers do. But they haven't done it with dps...yet. They had an opportunity with Frost Bomb, but they chose to have it deal less damage to players instead. Which I'm sure most are happy with since it would have meant nerfing power because of 1 spec, even if many think that's exactly what they did when they nerfed power for hybrids.

In terms of keeping the trinkets and weapons out, it's been successful for now. But trinkets in the first tier of an expansion tend to be pretty boring so we'll see where we are in the end. On the other hand, my understanding was that they could now turn procs from weps/trinks off in certain environments where they couldn't before. But if they can do that, then what is the point of pvp power? The weapons have so much pvp power on them that I think people will think twice about using a pve one.

For the most part, players who stack pvp power are like me, they mostly just do bgs and maybe rbgs and arena to get capped. But if I was serious about arena, I'd never stack pvp power because I'd just get blown to smithereens more often than not. However, there's so much of it on the gear/wep/trinkets that you don't need to gem for it to have a lot it.

Was just looking up one of the best players and he's got close to 47% pvp power all the while having just over 68% resilience. Not human, so he has the freedom trinket. Even taking out the badge trinket, he'd still have over 41% pvp power. Down the road if some super awesome pve trinket came around, what's to stop him or anyone from using it? If the benefits outweigh the loss, everyone will pick up the pve trinket.

This is just the first season and we can get 47% additional damage without even trying, so who knows how much pvp power we'll have at the end of the expansion?

[Osmeric]

In terms of keeping the trinkets and weapons out, it's been successful for now.

The PvP trinkets are primarily PvP Power, so they suck for healers. A healer would be better going for PvE trinkets now. I suspect the same will be true of weapons.