A question about college costs.

[semaphore]

Also relevant:

This. Never getting fooled by my lecturers into buying their books again!

[Rukentuts]

Never buy books before class begins either. So many are really optional.

[gofcak]

My job is originating and processing private student loans for one of the largest lenders. The real problem is not the cost but that most kids feel they have to go to a specific school to get their education regardless of how much it costs a semester. There are also parents who refuse to have their kids take federally funded loans because they do not want anything to deal with the government. These people are then subject to their credit and are at a higher risk of getting higher interest rates on private loans if their credit is bad. Private loans are not like a car loan or mortgage where having a good credit score will ensure you get a good rate. Your whole credit history is reviewed to see how good of a candidate you are.

If people would check their pride and do the cost effective route of doing their general education classes at a community college and then transferring to a state school where tuition will not be nearly as high as a private school. Compare the cost of a school year at University of Southern California to that of University of Texas. Some will assume it is because of the high costs of California and likely make some ignorant assumption about Texas. Look at the cost of Notre Dame as well or even Baylor. Want a good idea of the cost of each school go to collegeboard.com

The other issue is that once the kid graduates, depending on where they went to school and (the key part here) what their field of study was, will determine how much they owe and how likely they are to pay it off. I know there are people out there who dream of being a fashion designer or interior designer but getting a bachelors that costs 100k to get a degree in a field that is not even remotely in demand and lucky to make a comfortable living at makes it even harder to make those $1200 a month student loan payments.

Fact is high schools and parents need to both get educated and involved with students long before they go to college. Want to be an actor? Great....do it as a hobby or pursue it in conjunction with a degree that will actually afford you a way to live and pay your debt. Want to go to Notre Dame? No problem....if your parents can help foot the bill and do not care or you get a scholarship.

Some people will say join the military to get help. Even these individuals are facing problems with the GI Bill covering even the lower costing state schools at the moment. Point is, bite the bullet and do 2 years knocking out your general education courses and then transfer to a cheaper, more affordable but still respectable state school with a degree that will put you in position for success. Take the federal loans regardless of your feelings about the government. These loans can be deferred for anything and everything once you are out of school as well, have repayment plans to make them more affordable, and after 25 years the rest of the debt is forgiven.

[Reeve]

In Ontario I'm paying roughly 23,000 per year in tuition/rent/living expenses to attend an Engineering program at a decent university. (This would be about 1000 a year higher if I was to buy all of the textbooks but it strains my wallet to do that).

With a 99% average in Highschool and 90+% average in my first two year of University applying for as many scholarships and bursaries as I can fill out I receive a measly 8-10k a year which leaves me with the remaining 13-15k (I have no financial support from parents etc.).

Generally speaking I can get 10k in loans leaving the remaining 3-5k to be covered by my summer job.

I personally tend to make about $9600 over my summer job (16 weeks 40 hours a week at $15 an hour) but a ton of students aren't as lucky as me to have a full time decent paying job for the summer which certainly can make it hard to find a way to make ends meet.


All and all as a smart, financially needy student (bursaries love that) working a decent job for the summer I still end up 3-5k in debt per semester (not crippling but it's certainly not easy for me to fund my way through).


***I know your wording in the original message made it seem like you were asking Americans but I figured I'd offer an opinion from another area of the world).***

Also relevant:

I went to San Jose State University in California, which was a relatively inexpensive university. Tuition was about $2,000/semester. The textbooks which were hardly ever used ran about $500/semester. Because I shared an apartment, my housing costs were about $7200/year, or $3600/semester. If I'd stayed in the dorms, it would have been about $4,500/semester, and I'd have been sharing a closet-sized room with 2 other guys. I worked at a restaurant, where I got a lot of free food, so food was probably only about $10/day on average, so that's about $1850/semester. My car was $209/month, plus insurance, which was about $175/month, and gas, which was probably about $60/month, so that was an average of $2664/semester. Entertainment probably ran me $50/month, or $300/semester.

All told, I probably spent about $10,614/semester. That includes months not in school, since I still had to support myself then as well. For the whole year, that's $20,614. I worked at a restaurant for about $12/hour, about 30 hours/week on average (a few 25 hour weeks and one semester of 40 hour weeks sprinkled in). That's an income of $18,720/year. I don't remember, but I think I paid a fair amount in taxes too, since my parents could still claim me as a dependent. Let's assume my take home pay was about $17500/year. With costs of $20,614 a year, I'd have run a deficit of $3,114 per year for the 5.5 years I was in school. That's a total of $17,127 I'd have had to take out in loans if my parents weren't there to help me. Honestly, that's not all that bad, and I haven't even factored in financial aid. That strikes me as pretty doable. But again, I went to one of the least expensive schools in the country, and I understand tuition has increased considerably since then.

[semaphore]

I'm trying to get the kaiser reference here. German ruler, named after Caesar... but used to reference a Russian student in the US?

Eh, he probably just misread Kasierith as Kaiserith.

[Reeve]

Eh, he probably just misread Kasierith as Kaiserith.

Oh, haha, I'm surprised I totally didn't notice that.

[Rukentuts]

Eh, he probably just misread Kasierith as Kaiserith.

Freudian justification for us dyslexics. Brutal dictator indeed.

[semaphore]

Never buy books before class begins either. So many are really optional.

Even the non optional ones aren't always necessary to buy. I usually just grab them from the library before the course begins; with a couple of months plus renewal, more than enough time to note down the important sections.

Or photocopy, but shhh

[Rukentuts]

Even the non optional ones aren't always necessary to buy. I usually just grab them from the library before class; with a couple of months plus renewal, more than enough time to note down the important sections.

Or photocopy, but shhh

So many profs would just upload shit online too.

Optional = Don't buy at all.
Required = Wait to buy until needed.

[semaphore]

Oh, haha, I'm surprised I totally didn't notice that.

I only noticed because that's how I used to misread it too

[Palmatum]

You could say I'm an ignorant teenager when it comes to college. The mere thought of going to a CC while my peers and siblings go off to amazing colleges all over the U.S makes me want to die. I've dreamed of a decent college experience since middle school, just flying off to a great college somewhere out of state so I can get away from my annoying family and finally live on my own. Sometimes I don't even feel like I'd care if I left a university 80k in debt. I just want to go out, I've been waiting for this for too long.

In short: my life sucks.

Not like it matters. You'll learn the same fundamentals of the course which is what matters.

Degrees in most cases are pointless. Like business... You either have an aptitude for it and a degree may enhance that somewhat and help you with some of the details, but a business degree wouldn't make an idiot with no business sense be successful. It's just a piece of paper that says you're capable of understanding and completing things on time. Anyone with patience can get one.

A degree is a degree and while some degrees carry more weight because of the institute where you studied, it's rare and barely comparable unless you're talking about comparing like Cambridge University and Bradford University.

[Deleted]

people assume that if they pay top dollar, their degree will be of a higher standard, and they will have the chance to network with the elite, which after college will give them a good chance of a high paid position.
I dont subscribe to that school of thought, but I understand why people do it - I think its better to have not be shackled with debt, or just invest the 200k+ in something you can make money from, I mean you could start a small business/buy a home with that money, people put to much faith in degrees

[Palmatum]

people assume that if they pay top dollar, their degree will be of a higher standard, and they will have the chance to network with the elite, which after college will give them a good chance of a high paid position.
I dont subscribe to that school of thought, but I understand why people do it - I think its better to have not be shackled with debt, or just invest the 200k+ in something you can make money from, I mean you could start a small business/buy a home with that money, people put to much faith in degrees

I started a business instead and I'm glad I did. I do sometimes consider going to university to study because I do study some things quite a lot as a hobby and it would be nice to have some proper structure to that, but on a whole I don't think I'd be willing to give up my business to go and study.

For a lot of people, it's drilled into them that higher education is vitally important. While in some professions that's absolutely the case, it isn't in a lot of others.
People that want to work in engineering, architecture, medicine etc, they need degrees mostly because they have to prove competence to meet regulations I'd imagine.

I can understand as well people studying something purely out of interest with a total disregard for career prospects, but they should appreciate that they forfeit any right to bitch and moan about 'how hard it is to find work'.

As for going to top universities, I think it does without doubt help. Go to a grad scheme with a degree from Cambridge or Harvard and you will have them foaming at the mouth.

[Ave07]

Never buy books before class begins either. So many are really optional.

^this 1000x I think the only classes I ever had to use my book for is my math classes.

I wish universities didn't charge you for things that you'll never use such as the on campus gym Im also taking all my classes live stream and they are still charging me $100 for parking even though its impossible to get a parking space in the university.

[vindicatorx]

I took a lot of core classes at Ivy Tech back in the day to save money as well. I am starting my final semester at Indiana university next week so yeah I can give a little information on the grant scholarship info. I currently receive 3 grants Frank O'Bannon which is an Indiana state grant, the Pell Grant and a supplemental grant as well. Together these pay for all my actual tuition costs I do take loans for living costs like room/board

[Reeve]

people assume that if they pay top dollar, their degree will be of a higher standard, and they will have the chance to network with the elite, which after college will give them a good chance of a high paid position.
I dont subscribe to that school of thought, but I understand why people do it - I think its better to have not be shackled with debt, or just invest the 200k+ in something you can make money from, I mean you could start a small business/buy a home with that money, people put to much faith in degrees

Honestly I think going to a top-dollar university is as much about the networking as it is about the knowledge you obtain or even the value of the degree. There's a reason people who go to Harvard do extremely well in the job market beyond just what companies think their education taught them.

[Kurioxan]

Best advice I can give to US college students, is learn a foreign language spoken in Europe and move there for studies, there are plenty of reasons to do so.

First, experience, which is valued by employers, having the notion of other cultures and ideas always brings things home.

Second, a lot of people still have the notion that "studying abroad = better), which in a certain aspect is true, i did college in EU but also did in the US and i gotta say, much more easy in the US, study time was half, EU schools are more demanding (this is a gross generalization btw, and comes from my own experience)
But the truth is, employers also think that way.

Third, it shows you are willing to get out of a comfort zone (studying abroad as interesting as it may sound, is not for everyone)

Fourth EU countries have bologna agreement, you wont have more than 3 years college, 5 for masters.

Fifth there is a lot of support for foreign students, in the UK for example you can get a loan that has almost no interest and you only pay it back when you either: A: earn more than min wage, B after 3? years and the monthly payments are very accessible, 100 a month? Not just UK, but my experience with loans was just in the UK (im portuguese, studied in portugal, US, UK, in that order)

Sixth and likely more important: *cough* are you ready? tuitions in the EU dont go above 5000 a YEAR.
In Portugal, 800 a year, depends what country and what college, you can get quite good colleges with about 2000 a year tuition.



or you can just be smart, but truly studying abroad has many advantages, one of the biggest imo, is culture clashes, to learn and understand that people think very differently and helps you grow.

[Palmatum]

Sixth and likely more important: *cough* are you ready? tuitions in the EU dont go above 5000 a YEAR.

They do in the UK.

Most universities charge 15k USD a year. Still cheap as fuck considering, but yeah.

[Kurioxan]

They do in the UK.

Most universities charge 15k USD a year. Still cheap as fuck considering, but yeah.

I know, the 5000 is an average from my own experience, and why i said right on the start of my post "learn a foreign language", meaning that the UK isnt that different.
Not all colleges in the UK charge more than that, but many do yes.
But Europe is big and the UK hardly represents it, it has more in common with the US (erm, the other way around?) than it has with most EU countries.

[Kasierith]

I only noticed because that's how I used to misread it too

I remember giggling about that

This. Never getting fooled by my lecturers into buying their books again!

My first quarter of classes absolutely brutalized my bank account for this very reason... also didn't help that the only book that was used in the class was all but useless. Horribly written chemistry textbook...