Ghostcrawler tweet about 25 man, let the speculation begin!

[Faroth]

I am going to bet on 25 bosses dropping charms.

That's a possible incentive that could work. Definitely see it being controversial as 10 man complain they're forced to do dailies and 25 man raiders aren't.

[Deleted]

That's a possible incentive that could work. Definitely see it being controversial as 10 man complain they're forced to do dailies and 25 man raiders aren't.

That can't be it either, as they already have stated that pet battles will drop charms as well, all it will do is forcing 10man raiders into pet battles.

[Fenixdown]

I'm not expecting the separate lockouts to come back for EU and US (they did confirm that would only be for KR and CH regions), but higher item level from 25's would not surprise me. Another possibility is splitting up achievements again, with better rewards coming to 25. A third possibility is higher chance of coins giving you gear in 25's than in 10's.

This makes me very happy, as I love 25-man raiding far more than 10-man raiding and am in a 25-man guild for that reason. Recruitment is very tough even for the better 25-man guilds out there.

[Marximos]

Almost everyone talks about either adding ilvl to items for 25man, or splitting the lockouts.. though that doesn't really help with the issue.

The issue isn't the gear, or the amount of raids done per week, its the fact that 25man guilds cannot recruit properly when everyone on a server wants to do 10man.

There is always those that want to do 25man, but don't find the option to do it.. WHAT IF, 25man guilds get to be allowed to recruit ACROSS realms, just like how RID works now, you can team with people from different realms, and zone to an instance or the like together, except that they're in your guild and all.

Utilizing CRZ tech for this could prove to be well.... helpful in fixing the issue, or at least I think!

[Rafoel]

Personally, I'm in nice situation of playing on realm with highest progress between all english speaking europe realms. Even there, there are only a few 25man guilds. And I still remember the situation on my previous realm - one of the lowest populated realms in the world. There was only one 25-man guild, and that was in Firelands time. Like everobody say, especially on those lower-populated realms maintaining 25-man raiding squad is a real challenge. Most guilds don't even try it, as the fights in 25-man are neither easier nor more rewarding.

What can encourage players to play 25-man again? There are several options:

1) Forcing them, by removal of 10-man. Not likely to happen.
2) Giving better loot in 25-man version. Also not likely to happen, as Gc said.
3) Making 25-man significantly easier. This, however, would enrage both hardcores and casuals, as the first do not want the game easier and the second would whine their guilds are not big enough to raid 25-man.

There are no more obvious solutions ( and no - adding additional upgrade level will not change anything - even in the current model you dont have enough time to upgrade all of items before next patch ). Seems I have done nothing more that sum the points ;p Still, from what I've seen you guys are also not very creative - most of your ideas can be summarized by one of three points above.

One more thing. You are enormously wrong while saying that removal of 10-man would cause most players leave. If raids are what keeps you playing ( so you are not PvP-er, etc. ) that you are probably pretty dedicated to them. You spend a lot of your time for raiding ( if you dont, raids are not what keeps you playing, trust me ) and eventual decision of abandoning the game because of one decision of Blizzard can be nothing more than emotional one. And emotions fade. I know many players who stopped playing from emotional reasons ( new raid tier dissapointed me, my class now sucks in pvp ( it actually sucked ), dont like the idea of same items in 25 and 10 ( after wotlk ), i'm just tired of being gl - nobody respects me or takes me seriously etc. ). Nearly all those players returned ( one after 2,5 years! ). So again, if you raid a lot, WoW is probably an important part of your day. You are not going to just stop playing, same as someone does not simply stop watching TV, if he used to watch movies every evening. Not counting people who just can't raid 25-man ( too weak computer etc. ) most of you would just get used to new format... same as after vanilla.

[Deleted]

Almost everyone talks about either adding ilvl to items for 25man, or splitting the lockouts.. though that doesn't really help with the issue.

The issue isn't the gear, or the amount of raids done per week, its the fact that 25man guilds cannot recruit properly when everyone on a server wants to do 10man.

There is always those that want to do 25man, but don't find the option to do it.. WHAT IF, 25man guilds get to be allowed to recruit ACROSS realms, just like how RID works now, you can team with people from different realms, and zone to an instance or the like together, except that they're in your guild and all.

Utilizing CRZ tech for this could prove to be well.... helpful in fixing the issue, or at least I think!

Won't happen, it would undermine and defeat the point of realm rankings.

[Erolian]

I hope 25 gets increased ilvl again since I'm personally trapped on a server without a single 25 guild on horde.

[Gritalian]

I honestly can't figure out what it would be. Every time someone has suggested higher leveled gear or more gear drops they've responded with how 25m, for the most part, is more taxing on officers than the raid itself, that its harder to recruit and more people management, and that they didn't want to reward the whole raid for the added work for a few.

And yet they took out cauldrons.

Unless you're agreeing with what I said, I can't tell with the "and yet" portion of your response, but isn't them taking out cauldrons in the same line of thinking? All cauldrons end up being is a few officers farming/buying the mats needed for all 10/25m players.

I actually made a rank titled "The Alchemist" for the one mage (non officer) who farmed cauldrons for the whole raid, gave him access to officer chat, etc. Was my little way of rewarding him for the hard work, because before that I was farming the mats myself on the weekends on my druid, which I never played.

[Duster505]

The biggest drawback to 25 man raiding is actually keeping a 25+ man roster together and not having them run off and forming their own 10 man with the best players of the 25 man and reaping the same rewards faster and more efficiently in 10 man. My old guild survived these "mutiny's" hundreds of times till my guild leader and officers realized "Why should we put hours and hours of time into recruiting for 25 man, when all we are actually doing is creating more awesome 10 man teams for the realm". They are now 10 man. It's so easy to keep a 10 man together...

Ineresting... Keeping 10 man rooster together isn't always easy either. Specially now when content has been out this long and ppl are getting bored.
Players prefer 10 mans atm - if Blizzard changes the ilvl 10 mans will feel they have been cheated and many will walk away. BLIzzard can not change things in middle of expansion. They might do it in next one but doing it now would be suicide.

[Drayarr]

I think that is actually one of the possibilities in the "controversial" area that GC mentioned. Something like an 8% hp and dmg buff to all 10man bosses. That would definitely be controversial and it would be interesting to see how the community responds.

Wouldn't be able to carry people anymore!

[Dravelar]

I am going to bet on 25 bosses dropping charms.

For me this is the best idea so far,it would be a nice incentive to do 25 man without killing 10 man.i would also suggest that the chance of getting loot using the charms is increased by like 10% in 25 man

[Shampro]

Spliting up achivements points combined with just more loot drops (3 more maybe?) Would be more than enough in my opinion. Also the 25/10 separate lockout is not happening, stop asking for it. It was something that ultimately burned tons of ppl out.

[Malkazam]

controversial.... that's the key word. I am guessing its higher ilvl items again. Which would suck.

Well yeah. Why not ? If your 25.. its harder so you deserve better loots. What wrong with that ?

[Marximos]

Won't happen, it would undermine and defeat the point of realm rankings.

Not really, realm ranking can be based on the host realm.. aka, the realm where the guild actually is.

[kojinshugi]

Stopped doing 25 man at the start of Ulduar as we lost players to real life scheduling. Reformed for 10 man raiding with RL friends and another group of RL friends with a couple guildmates and have done that from ToC to now (waiting on some to catch up for MoP. Darn real life again).

Personally, I've never seen any reason to care if 25 man had high iLvL. It's a bonus for 25 man raids and if I'm doing 10 man, the gear I get is good enough for what I'm doing. I have no actual need for the 25 man gear except for situations where I like its color set better. All that means is I have to wait until next expansion to go back and farm gear if I really want it for transmog (and by then I might not care for it as much anyway).

Never understood why the ilvl difference mattered, it was a fair incentive.

A major problem in Wrath was that it wasn't just an ilevel difference, the gear was completely different except for tier. 10 man ICC melee trinkets were garbage. Deathbringer's Will was 25-man only.

The concept of "players feel they have to do both weekly" shouldn't be Blizzard's problem. Anything that is "Blizzard, you're making me _____" is an immediate non-argument. Blizzard makes players do nothing, players choose what to do with their time.

It's not a non-argument. Individual raiders don't make those decisions. Guild leaders make those decisions. Right now it's possible to get BiS gear in a 10-man guild. If you remove that, you're forcing people who don't like the 25M format but who care about maximizing their output, to do 25M.

I don't like playing with 3-5 keyboard turners doing 50% of my DPS. I prefer playing with 9 competent people. So sue me.

[Shampro]

For me this is the best idea so far,it would be a nice incentive to do 25 man without killing 10 man.i would also suggest that the chance of getting loot using the charms is increased by like 10% in 25 man

The reason that charms wont drop from dungeons/raids it because they want people to actually freaking go to the world for once, you know mmorpg and all. Which imo im 100% in favor.

[Cybran]

My last guild tried going 25 man in Mists. We did 3 weeks of raids and people gave up. 25 man needs incentives or it will die out. Higher item level or already upgraded items are the way to go.

[Drayarr]

I don't like playing with 3-5 keyboard turners doing 50% of my DPS. I prefer playing with 9 competent people. So sue me.

This. Good god I HATE people that suck hard on dps when they should be challenging for top.

[hiragana]

Im betting some way for 25man raiders to increase their VP caps. So eg "25man raiders can earn 2000vp a week, 25man bosses drop substantially more VP".

[Gurushock]

For me, I'd really love if they made 10man/25man different locks outs and gave 25mans the upper hand on loots. Some people may not like that idea, but I've always been a raider/hard core raider and pretty much every guild I've been in since they made these changes to make 10/25's the same lock out/same gear.... would agree with me that 10/25 mans shouldn't be on the same lockout, and 25man should have the upper hand on loot.