GC: In vanillla, hybrids could only heal (except warriors)

[Gothicshark]

The term "vanilla" has no clear definition.

When the Game was World of Warcraft, and no expansions had come out yet. However the best way to describe it was the log in screen. Vanilla had the dark-portal from Hellfire looking at lush the lush and beautiful Azeroth

Vanilla login:


BC Login:

[catablitz]

Hehe, I remember paladins being brought as OFFRESSERS ( that was the term we used), meaning to ressurect dead noobs since you could go out of combat during boss fights!! I remember fury warriors tanking as well as enhancement shamans threat issues that was impossible to DPS properly. Back then the game was not so much developed but at the end of the day min-maxing was pretty obvious.

I completely agree with the OP. Closing the gap for hybrids to match pures is false in any way you see it. This is not negotiable, it is absolute. It is one thing to correct inviabilities and paradox and another thing to equalise and homogenise omnipotent classes with single role ones. Having a niche adds flavor to the game but when everybody has it, then noone has it.....

[Alvito]

Sure you could use hybrids to dps but they were far worse at it then the pure dps classes. You could jump off a ten story building to get to the bottom instead of taking the stairs too, one way is a smarter way to do it though.

[Gothicshark]

Hehe, I remember paladins being brought as OFFRESSERS ( that was the term we used), meaning to ressurect dead noobs since you could go out of combat during boss fights!! I remember fury warriors tanking as well as enhancement shamans threat issues that was impossible to DPS properly. Back then the game was not so much developed but at the end of the day min-maxing was pretty obvious.

I completely agree with the OP. Closing the gap for hybrids to match pures is false in any way you see it. This is not negotiable, it is absolute. It is one thing to correct inviabilities and paradox and another thing to equalise and homogenise omnipotent classes with single role ones. Having a niche adds flavor to the game but when everybody has it, then noone has it.....

I find it funny how people remember both Paladins and Shamans during Vanilla raids. I distinctly remember Paladins off healing, and fearing Shaman in PVP. Especially the Tauren shaman

[solvexx]

Statements like these really outrage me, because they make Devs look like fools. It's as if they were not playing their own game.

In reality, I remember my guild raiding during Vanilla, with Rets as DPS, Moonkins DPS, ferals as DPS, and Shadow Priests as DPS (who were also over buffed during the final stages of Vanilla) though we had dramah every day and -mostly- druid tears about how Druids were doing soooo little DPS.

In reality, nobody really cared because there wasn't any reliable way to measure one's DPS. As long as you had decent gear and you had everything enchanted, getting a spot in a 40 man raid was really no problem, and that -yes- includes even Retardins who were raiding as Ret with that stupid legendary weapon which I forget now and they were perfectly viable.

I even remember days we couldn't find enough DPS to do MC or BWL, and Officers would ask if we had any friends -who knew tacts- willing to fill the Roster. Other days we raided MC with 32 people, or even 28. And there are people here -even Devs- who claim that hybrids couldn't raid as DPS in Vanilla.

The worst part is that this skewed opinion of GC, which he retained when he became Lead Systems Designer, led to pure DPS suffering the most massive nerf storm ever in this game while hybrids such as Ret, were buffed to such a ridiculous extent, that we ended up with Rets being more than Rogues, and many people within the Paladin community even equaling Ret to whole CLASSES such as Rogue or Hunter.

We often see people complaining about Ret's Arena, BG or Raid representation at the forums, arguing that they should be equally well represented with pure DPS classes, and that is Blizzard's fault because they spoiled Rets in particular in thinking of themselves as special and superior to the rest of us poor buggers who play pure DPS classes.

That changed very quickly from having a go at Ghostcrawler to bad mouthing Ret Paladins.

[Bonkbonk100]

I remember the odd fool in my guild being a shadow priest back when MC was released. Never saw other hybrid DPS specs. If you could heal, you healed. Only warriors would tank.

PvE.

[Mirishka]

So GC telling the truth outrages you?

These forums are cluttered enough. We don't need a new topic about everything he tweets, FFS.

[Kujako]

So GC telling the truth outrages you?

I guess I just wish GC could tell me what game I was playing since everyone seems to be claiming it wasn't World of Warcraft. Whichever game it was, it was fun, more people should have played it I guess.

[Gothicshark]

Just throwing this out there. Moonkin form was added in Burning Crusade.

Patch 1.8.0 (2005-10-10): Significant talent changes. Added Moonkin Form.

Granted besides the first week of Moonkins form you never saw them unless you count people dancing in the Stormwind Fountain or in the Park on RP servers.

The primary reason was most people did hybrid specs and didn't get the 31 talents.

[Avernix]

This is yet another of those misconceptions by bad or lazy players.

Actually, using mana oil and the mana restore flask, meant you never went out of mana. I used both as a Hunter. I never went OOM in raids. That was in patch 1.8 and later.

Edit: I played MM in Raids in Vanilla, and Survival as PvP. I still remember a 796 Raptor Strike damage crit that killed a Rogue who dared to venture too close to me. It was done by Lord Alexander's Battle Axe and while I had the full PvP blue set.

Aaaaah those were the days, I have never had so much fun in my life playing my Hunter.

bad, lazy and casual players, but you think flasks were expensive? i take it you were still saving up for your epic mount also? either you didn't start wow when you say you did, you just didn't hit 60 until 1.11.

1% of subscribers saw naxx? maybe 1% of the current subscribers, considerably more than that at the time. unless you mean only 1% cleared 4 horsemen, in which case it would be much less.

the druid in your screenshot is a hunter.

congrats on clearing garr after 4 horsemen killed half the semi-serious guilds in the game, but that doesn't really count as raiding unless soloing mc/bwl/naxx does at 90. also if you can go back in time, just have warlocks off tank all the adds with banish/voids.

non-dps classes didn't dps in progression raids ever(except on loatheb =DDD)

tl;dr: op was a casual who did a couple of MC bosses (didn't quite get to rag) around 1.11-1.12 and is enraged at GC because all of his friends were oomkins/rets/spriests and they killed garr with bear tanks.

[kenshinag]

As a person who raided as a rogue in vanilla, I remember the only other classes that would compete with me were warlocks, hunters, and sometimes mages. Warlocks could only put 1 curse per lock, but there was a limit to debuffs on mobs. My rogue couldn't use poisons on any non-snake or dog guy in mc. Luckily they worked on dragons in bwl. I played a combat daggers spec where I backstabbed but had blade flurry. Topped the 1 meter. Mages had to decurse and when not, had to shoot frostbolts all day. Hunters had to kite dragons on razorgore. Druids healed or decursed and provided innervates to priests who also only healed along with shaman, who dropped totems and hid LOS to do out of combat rezzing. Warriors tanked, except for farm nights when they could respec fury because arms was the PvP spec. I didn't play alliance so I had no idea how pallies were.

Hybrids didn't do anything but heal except for warriors, who tanked. Look at all the tier 1-3. That should explain everything with all the set bonuses. Only towards the end of vanilla and the 2.0 patch did they start doing offspecs.

[Gothicshark]

'


So because your HUNTER didn't run out of mana DRUIDS didn't run out of mana either?

In that case no mana class should ever have a problem ever again as my lock has infiinite mana.

Mana whats Mana, I have life tap and health stones. Sadly I loose one bag so I can store all my soul shards, /cast drainsoul feed me your soul muhahaha.

Honestly I remember cast dots, cast drain health, tap, tap, more dots, drain health, tap, tap, drain health, swap to drain soul

[skrump]

My memory is a little rusty but I do believe moonkin form and tree of life were actually implemented before TBC.
The class was originally so shitty that it had several major adjustments in I think it was either patch 1.6 or 1.8

Either way I can guarantee that both forms were available by the final patch of Vanilla.

[Gamez]

Also:

Link to one of our raids in Vanilla. Note HYACHA, Balance druid.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7819/wownew1.jpg

... i pretty sure thats a hunter with a dead tiger pet.

[Gothicshark]

My memory is a little rusty but I do believe moonkin form and tree of life were actually implemented before TBC.
The class was originally so shitty that it had several major adjustments in I think it was either patch 1.6 or 1.8

Either way I can guarantee that both forms were available by the final patch of Vanilla.

1.8, although the moonkins didn't become a common sight until BC. Also trees where introduced with the pre-BC patch.

[Flaks]

Your argument could have been sound if you'd stuck with a pvp argument. Pve on the other hand your story falls apart because hybrids COULD only be healers.

But in pvp I agree. Rets are ridiculously spoiled. They are perfectly fine atm to the extent that they are as rank 1 viable as warriors and ferals. For some reason they still want buffs. Yes, they're not as powerful as the aforementioned but both feral and arms are getting nerfed.

Also from a pvp stand point, GC's statement holds literally no merit because all hybrids used either or specs and MOST of the time preferred using dps specs in pvp.

[Deleted]

Just throwing this out there. Moonkin form was added in Burning Crusade.

Strange - Im playin since 2004 open beta and was in Moonkin form in MC back in 2006....

BC made them viable (some as supporter like Shadow), Wrath/Cata/MoP balanced them.

balanced them out? that Sir, made my DAY! rofl

Moonkins were not in vanilla cause druids were restoration.

bullshit... there were a lot of owls and owl blogs...

Exactly Balance Druid. Not in moonkin for since it was not added. And you account records only show dates that came after TBC.

TBC was released in 2007 punk

Picture taken in April 2006

so please stop the claims of Zero Owls in Vanilla - only Pros played them back in the days

[-aiko-]

My memory is a little rusty but I do believe moonkin form and tree of life were actually implemented before TBC.
The class was originally so shitty that it had several major adjustments in I think it was either patch 1.6 or 1.8

Either way I can guarantee that both forms were available by the final patch of Vanilla.

I didn't actually play a Druid in vanilla, but patch notes show Tree of Life being added in 2.0.1 and Moonkin in 1.8.

[Divineknight13]

paladins healed in vanilla and ret wasnt even a viable spec back then ... any good ret ran something called a reckadin spec... which required a proc to get any useful burst out

ret dps was so bad back then lol

feral druids didnt exsist unless they were bear tanks ... our mc guild had one

ele was the spec to play unless you where just straight up awesome at enhancement and people liked u ... other then that u raided resto

and shadow priests where mana batterys to put in your healing groups

healing was so easymode in vanilla thxs to CT mod ...

[Tacotruck]

OP is FOS. I played Druid through Vanilla and it was a PITA to get into a group of any kind unless I was healing. Sure there were a few outliers, like my druid friend who was in a top raiding guild and was able to acquire DPS sets of feral (rogue) and balance (caster cloth mix) gear, but only because he was the guilds disenchanter and would buy the pieces he wanted from the guild instead of disenchanting them. Even then, with naxx dps gear and tagged from a top worldwide raiding guild he would have people refuse to take him as dps on a UBRS run because the rule was "If you have a heal, you will be healing, no exceptions."