What is your Idea for The Ideal Government

[Senathor]

Again, by stealing a shiiiiiiiiiiiit ton of money from millions of people and then killing them, and stealing land at the barrel of a gun. These options are not available to us.

I don't think you understood the essential meaning of what he just said. It's not about HOW he did it but about THAT he did it. If he can, I'm sure someone else can be convincing enough as well, hopefully with good intentions. I don't think that would work in a decently developed country like here in Sweden because we're not in need of such attention, but in a random country in Africa this could definitely be a nice way of giving people hope. But ofc most people with a lot of power don't use it the way they should.

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 06:12 PM ----------

Money is power... hmmm, true and untrue.

Then again there are ways around it, you can either have a system that uses no "economy" per se, but people just do what is needed,
eg: a road needs to be to town X, town X has 100.000 habitants.
During the first days workers who gather the required resources stockpile them, then volunteers from town X will go there and build the road.
The road benefits everyone, as it benefits everyone a lot of people will decide to take a day off work and go build it.

You had similar ways as this before, when scarcity was real and currency little.
Would get things done at least, currently we see examples of infrastructure that could improve peoples lives being delayed for decades because governments change and everyone has different priorities, money creates scarcity in a sense.

Or you can have a monetary system that resets every X time, no one can have more than X amount and all jobs award pretty much the same, as long you work you have right for the money with some benefits if the job is of either high importance or risk.
people would work out of passion for what they are doing and not out of need or greed, they would do what they saw was best and people could take time studying before rushing into a job as there would be no poverty.

There are many ways, some more flawed than others, we simply "like" what we have, or are afraid to risk moving away from it, or simply are one of the people who is benefited from the current system and has no reasons to see it gone.

In an absolutely perfect world, perhaps.

[Zhangfei]

I don't think you understood the essential meaning of what he just said. It's not about HOW he did it but about THAT he did it. If he can, I'm sure someone else can be convincing enough as well, hopefully with good intentions. I don't think that would work in a decently developed country like here in Sweden because we're not in need of such attention, but in a random country in Africa this could definitely be a nice way of giving people hope. But ofc most people with a lot of power don't use it the way they should.

I don't know Rich extremely well but I think his point was more on the fact that Hitler got his nation's broken economy running again and gave people rising wages and hope for a better future, not that he was awesome because he killed millions and stole their money!

[Nakura Chambers]

1) Heavy regulation on religion. This means a central and faith-neutral/faithless organization monitors the major and minor religions, and deals with cults that pretend to be religions, such as Scientology.
2) Absolute separation of church and state. Religious education is outlawed completely.
3) Redefinition of marriage to something like "the union of two humans joined in the bond of love". This allows marriage for any sexuality. Note that it says TWO humans, so this eliminates those who would dare delve into polygamy and other sick stuff.
4) A government that takes gun control seriously (unlike the USA).
5) A government that does not play policeman beyond its own borders (unlike the USA).
6) A nation where both men AND women are treated equally (unlike most Arab nations).
7) A nation that favours intelligence over brute strength (unlike....everywhere??).
8) A nation that is tough on illegal immigrants (unlike Australia).
9) A nation that would see criminals in solitary confinement for life for the worst of crimes (rape, murder, etc).
10) A government that would not bow to the will of another government, but think for itself and do what it wants (kinda like China).

I can think of more, but this is all I have for now.

Why so much hatred towards religion, guns and homeschooling?

[Senathor]

If someone wants to send their child to a Religious school they can. Why should that be illegal? Most of these schools can offer better educations than public schools.

Becuase some belive that religion is an emberassment to humanity?

[Zhangfei]

Becuase some belive that religion is an emberassment to humanity?

So? It isn't, obviously.

[Nakura Chambers]

All bills must be up, in their complete and final form that will be voted on, along with an easily-readable summary version on a public website for 7 days before they can be voted on by congress.

The problem with that is that politicians like to slip little provisions in there and hope they go unnoticed. Much like what happened with Obamacare, which nobody, not even those who voted for it, had even read. And who controls what the easily-readable summary contains? The Speaker of the House? The sponsor of the bill?

[twh]

A government that protects the reproductive rights of women.

A government that protects and enshrines the right of homosexuals to marry.

A government that provides robust investment in infrastructure.

A government that sets a simple, but very highly progressive system of taxation.

A government that provides health care to all its citizens.

A government that provides higher education tuition free.

A government that is democratic while also protecting the rights of minorities.

A government that preserves the environment by keeping the water and air clean.

A government that subsidizes renewable sources of energy.

A government that ensures adequate funding for scientific research, including stem cells.

A government that provides substantial aid to those affected by natural disasters.

A government that sets a minimum, but living wage.

A government that provides support for the jobless, homeless, hungry, and mentally ill.

A government that significantly limits the sale and distribution of firearms to the general public.

A government that provides exceptional compensation for teachers of all grade levels.

A government that focuses on reducing income inequality while still protecting individual freedoms.

A government that is secular and that doesn't put religion above scientific evidence.

All this (except for the last item) sounds like statism....desiring a government to take care us and hold our hands from cradle to grave. the opposite what the US Constitution defines. More government equals less freedom. Our society has been brainwashed into thinking the government will be there to take care of us....

I want:

A government that that has zero involvement in reproduction period. States can deal with that if they want/need to.

A government that isn't involved our personal romantic relationships. There should be no marriage license. People should marry who/what they want according to their beliefs, as long as children aren't being harmed or forced into marriage.

A government that allows the free market to provide infrastructure by staying out of and let us, the people, run things.

A government that doesn't steal from its subjects in the form in income taxes.

A government that allows the free market to compete to provide health care to all its citizens.

A government that stays out of any/all educations issues. One that allows the parents and local communities set educational standards. Free markets would allow for College's to lower their tuition...if they want to stay in business.

A government that realizes that there is no "minority rights." Instead, all humans are individuals has the same right...the right to their liberty and to run their lives how they want.

A government that allows the free market to preserve the environment by keeping the water and air clean. Business will fail if more people realize they are polluting...they can be sued and be dealt with in the courts at a state level (federal court if need be).

A government that allows the free market to subsidizes renewable sources of energy.

A government that stays out of scientific research, including stem cells. allows the free market to do this and everything.

A government that allows the free market and business to provides substantial aid to those affected by natural disasters.

A government that isn't involved in our money or wages.

A government that isn't involved in taking from its subjects without their permission to "help" others. Voluntary charities are fine.

A government that has nothing to do with personal property of individuals.

A government that has nothing to do with education in any form (it's not in the constitution). Setting pay for teachers is really a school board issue. If teachers in XYZ county make low wages....those teachers should look elsewhere then. I don't want our government taking money from me to pay a teacher.

A government that reduces itself and its involvement in virtually everything that isn't stated in the constitution, in order to maximize individual freedoms. A government that isn't in bed with the criminal banksters in America.

A government that is secular and that doesn't put religion above scientific evidence. (agree, government shouldn't be involved in either.)

I'll add a couple:

A government that doesn't police the world and involve itself in perpetual, unnecessary wars, while bringing debt to its subjects.
Friendship and commerce with all, entangling alliances with none.

A government that doesn't sale its subjects as debt slaves for the a unconstitutional central bank such as the Federal Reserve (who is slowly devaluing our money).

[Nakura Chambers]

Instead of banning religious schools, they should be heavily regulating home schooling. THAT is where the most indoctrination will come from.

Homeschoolers are infinitely more intelligent than people like you. Almost everyone I know was homeschooled and most of them have been going to college/university since the age of 14. Now most of them are 16-21 years old and they're the most intelligent people you will ever meet out of that group, especially when compared to their public school counterparts.

God forbid you allow alternatives to liberal brainwashing facilities (public school).

[Animalhouse]

Ideal government would be like a true Athenian Democracy. A popular vote would decide everything and people could vote to ostracize politicians who don't live up to their promises and say things just to get voted in.

This type of system would stop the powerful from retaining complete control and could fit in with cultures of all kind cause the masses would decide the rules and there ultimate fate that best fits their society.

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 05:30 PM ----------

Ideal government would be like a true Athenian Democracy. A popular vote would decide everything and people could vote to ostracize politicians who don't live up to their promises and say things just to get voted in.

This type of system would stop the powerful from retaining complete control and could fit in with cultures of all kind cause the masses would decide the rules and there ultimate fate that best fits their society.

[Kurioxan]

In an absolutely perfect world, perhaps.

Well, two things

First, this is a for-fun thread, it is not mean to be super serious, just views ofc you are going to see many things are seem hard to do.

Second, perfect world... it is just up to us all to make it so, the world is what we create, none of it is random and none of us are victims as long we partake on it.
A president only has power for as long the military and police adheres to it, a general only has power as long as the soldiers adhere to it, if any part of the chain people start saying "lol no" those people have absolutely no power.

If we want a better world, we have to start by trying to make it.
But yes, it is very hard to shed old habits, old ideas and to take the power away from those who have it.

Thus i said, such system would require an extreme of civilization, no way i think we right now, would be ready for it.

Problem is humans in general are as the old men in taverns, they speak ill of all the world, and how many things are wrong, but never stop drinking that beer and actually do something about it.
It has a name i believe, when you are thinking of something, and i am thinking of it as well, but i dont know that you are thinking it and you dont know im thinking it, and thus we dont do anything about it because we are afraid to have no support, but we are all thinking it in a sense, but do nothing since we dont know who else is thinking it.
Thus the internet is such a big threat to many governments, it allows people to know that others are thinking it, so the biggest hindrance to action, not knowing, is put away

[shimerra]

You always hear people talking about descending into anarchy, but I hope one day we are able to evolve into anarchy.

I find that people like this are much like the people how they'd do in a zombie apocalypse. They say they hope it happens and dream about how their muscly gun toting self would surive where most would fail and imagine themselves living a life of solitude or repopulating the earth one sexcapade at a time with a woman survivor who happens to be extremely attractive.

The reality though is if shit actually did go down like the walking dead or 28 days later they'd be one of the first in a long list of people who got mowed crying/panicking in a corner. Some might make it a week, maybe a month, but their failure would be far more likely than even a fraction of their envisioned scenario occurring. Same thing with anarchy. Shit would go tits up for a while and the second all your power turned off, your shit got smashed, and the internet went out you'd be wondering where your police/government regulated monopolies went and all those societal conveniences. And then you'd be like everyone else and start forming smaller regional governments kind of poking the anarchy idea which was lauded previously right in the eye.

Funny enough communism and anarchy have more in common than either of them would like. They're both cute ideas in the abstract but fail when applied in the real world because they ignore basic human tendencies. Communism ignores human imperfection and self interest where as anarchy ignores pretty much every major advance that has come from humans banding together and our natural social tendencies to form groups, and no matter how you slice it anarchists even the family is but the smallest form of government, of which government is merely a larger extension.

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 07:02 PM ----------

Again, by stealing a shiiiiiiiiiiiit ton of money from millions of people and then killing them, and stealing land at the barrel of a gun. These options are not available to us.

They're available, whether or not you want to use them is a different question. Some of what he did was funded and powered by those things and there's no doubt they helped his process, but Rich has it right Hitler grabbed his country by the nose and drug it in a direction it wanted to go, because of the nature of power in a facist state, where as the Wiemar republic just printed money into oblivion.

[Deleted]

In the end it doesn't even matter.

[goobernoob]

An absolute dictatorship run by someone who is immortal, incorruptible, omnipresent, omnipotent, and has only the good of his subjects in mind.
On a more practical note, almost any form of government can be good if it is made up of good, honorable and competent people. The problem is finding such people and putting them in power over all of the people who want it more.

[Deleted]

Communism by definition, one that was never put in use fully.

no tnx, communism fails by default because of gouvernement. Not even if you could eliminate corruption fully would it work in a sustainable way.
Socialism on the other hand in a pure form would be possible if you could somehow set up the needed social control mechanisms.

[GennGreymane]

communism has no government attached to it

Stalinist, Maoism, Leninism are the governments attached

[Revik]

My idea of an Ideal Government is no government with ideal people.

[Deleted]

Read the book, very few (the elite) actually served in the military. There are more ways to serve your country than going to war, firefighter or paramedic, maybe even a low level Government clerk for example.

While I agree with that idea, it strikes me that even if the entire population of a country wanted to serve in some way, there might simply not be enough stuff for them to do?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Homeschoolers are infinitely more intelligent than people like you. Almost everyone I know was homeschooled and most of them have been going to college/university since the age of 14. Now most of them are 16-21 years old and they're the most intelligent people you will ever meet out of that group, especially when compared to their public school counterparts.

God forbid you allow alternatives to liberal brainwashing facilities (public school).

I sometimes wonder if you're just a very clever troll or if you actually believe the stuff you post.

The kids I know that went to public school are much more open minded, worldly in their knowledge, and free thinking and open to new ideas and learning new things. Progress happens through academic conference, not seclusion.

I have known 5 people who were home schooled. One of them was a well adjusted individual... but only because he went to public school for the last 4 years of his education. He was a little bit awkward at first but quickly learned and adjusted. The other four are incredibly closed minded, have opinions that are basically carbon copies of their parents (i.e. they were never exposed to differing viewpoints so they never formed opinions of their own), they're bigoted, have this strange obsession with guns and believing the government is coming after them, and they have the social skills of a rabid hyena. Nobody really wants to be around them because they say some of the most socially awkward things imaginable. 3 of the 4 have several restraining orders out against them because they've stalked every girl they've ever liked, and the fourth one somehow manages to get girls to like him, then he treats them like property. I think his longest relationship was 2 months. Don't get me wrong, they're all incredibly "smart". They know everything there is to know about cars and guns, and can tell you word for word what was on Fox News last night.

[Zhangfei]

Homeschoolers are infinitely more intelligent than people like you. Almost everyone I know was homeschooled and most of them have been going to college/university since the age of 14. Now most of them are 16-21 years old and they're the most intelligent people you will ever meet out of that group, especially when compared to their public school counterparts.

God forbid you allow alternatives to liberal brainwashing facilities (public school).

Ignoring your personal experiences because it's anecdotal, homeschoolers are not necessarily smarter or better-educated than public school graduates in any reasonable way. It's also only available to reasonably wealthy families.

So, no. Not "infinitely" more intelligent. Pretty much bog-standard.

[Haven]

A artifical intelligence, machine overlord. Zero corruption, 100% undisputable justice, most effective economy because it fucking calculates shit before implementing it, total surveillance (but the machine doesn't give a damn about anyone fucking in a dresser, only about serious things). And yes, mandatory military service.