Why Guild Applications are becoming a thing of the past

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Actually applications are even worse then job interviews,they can't be compared.
In an interview you have a person in front of you and you get treated with respect normally.
To answer questions to a stranger on the internet and sometimes even personal questions without ever seeing the person,just leaving the whole thing on a forum to be read ,while most guilds take days to answer (=no professionalism as said),how can guilds even dare to compare their applications to job interviews?Baffling stuff.

You know what effort is?Take the time to talk with the person on vent,ask them the questions yourself.That's when you can pretend you're as serious as a job interview.
Setting up a series of questions on a site,requires minimal effort and deserves minimal effort.Simple.

You can have their time after you fill out an application. Get your entitlement out of here please.

[Kreeshak]

Apps are kinda pointless. If you have an application, I'm not joining your guild. To me, WoW is a video game, not a job. Having an application requirement says to me that the guild expects its members to treat the game as a job. I'm past that point in my life. Another reason why I enjoy 10 mans rather than 25. 10 mans are more laid back, which I enjoy.

Might be part of the reason why so many 25 man guilds are dying. I don't know.

This a million times. And it is funny when you might make an application to realise you are actually better than them. While they are serious and you are messing around.

[Meleti]

What's left to join then? 2/6N MSV guilds? If all the 6/6 2/6 0/4 normal mode guilds already ask for ridiculous requirements.
If they can't even get Garalon normal down by now then they're definitely not in the position to ask for vouches or long ass essay-like apps.

Maybe, yeah. The world isn't going to bend to your will because you think something is ridiculous. Find a guild with progression you like and recruitment you like, or be willing to make a few compromises. Maybe start your own guild, and run it the way you think guilds should be run.

[Seezer]

Again, you are just judging. The guild is in power. Its their choice to have apps. If you don't like it don't join. You may think you are too good to fill out an app to McDonalds, but guess what? You still have to do so. If they want to block a certain type of person from their guild via applications, thats their prerogative.


I'm glad someone enjoyed my rant haha! I can be humble sometimes. Especially back then when I was superbad.


So you judge people while complaining about being judged? Why are you even applying to those guilds if you are so much better than they are?

It's the hypocrisy of people on the internet. If I made a thread about a top 50 guild, people would be lining up to bash them and judge them. But if it happened to them or someone that is in a 10,000+ guild? There will be hell to pay. People are too passive/aggressive for that.

[Deleted]

Neither does filling one out. Again, don't app. Why can't people understand that? Find a guild that doesn't have an app process. It's real easy. Super easy. Don't try to control what other people do. Or think that your way is the best way.

But I have to remember, tolerance on the internet is far and few between.

Where did I say guilds should change their ways?
No,I know they fully have the right to decide how their application process works.
I'm here to light some truth on the issue,lots of folks on this topic think guild applications require serious dedication and view people who don't take them seriously like lazy and incompetent,well I'm clarifying the situation,those people are wrong,they're hypocrites and they should stop comparing their applications to job interviews,their applications deserve minimal effort,simply they're completely wrong.

[Deleted]

There's a big difference between applying to a top 500 guild and a rank 5,000+ guild.
Especially when rank 10,000+ guilds ask for raid-unrelated questions, like what you do outside wow or your guild history, or who vouches for you, then that's beyond ridiculous.

Yeah the other day I applied for a job on a non-Fortune 500 company (just a local company actually) and they asked me what my hobby is. This is outrageous!!

Maybe they're trying to see how you reply to a question you don't expect to see how you can handle a surprise or stress. Maybe they'd like to get a picture of you how you are IRL. Maybe the question isn't actually of interest in your specific application. Maybe they're totally OK if you say you want to keep that private. Maybe they're trying to trigger you to make a joke to see how your humor is.

If I go buy something on the Internet they want to know my private information no matter if its from a Fortune 500 or a local company.

A social club is a social club. How good they are doesn't make them entitled to not ask a question. You are of course free to decline answering specific questions. And they are free to decline you for whatever reason they see fit. And yeah with job applications they're not allowed to discriminate maybe, but they'll give some bullshit reason if they want to discriminate.

[Kreeshak]

Again, you are just judging. The guild is in power. Its their choice to have apps. If you don't like it don't join. You may think you are too good to fill out an app to McDonalds, but guess what? You still have to do so. If they want to block a certain type of person from their guild via applications, thats their prerogative.


I'm glad someone enjoyed my rant haha! I can be humble sometimes. Especially back then when I was superbad.


So you judge people while complaining about being judged? Why are you even applying to those guilds if you are so much better than they are?

I am not applying to any guilds. I just support the OP that the requirements some guilds have are obscure. It is those requirements that makes them not raid and disband. And it is those requirements that make them not actually enjoy the game. If they were more flexible they would go further.

[Beet]

Personally I love the application process. I'm speaking as an ex-officer that helped lead a top raid guild from vanilla to the end of TBC and then as a regular raider who has applied to many guilds with the form. I think it's a great way to get to know someone quickly too. It's also an easy way to weed out the undesirables who think taking 15 minutes to fill out an application is too much work to put in. I mean you're applying to a guild you'd like to raid with for presumably a long time coming, so if you can't take the 15 minutes to fill an app out then well.... =\ Same goes for people who actually do fill an app out, but do it in a sloppy manner and avoid half the questions. Again if you can't take 15 minutes to fill this application correctly out why should I spend my time reading it?

Applications may be annoying in some ways, but their benefit far outways the cons in my opinion. One thing I do have an issue with and find comical is when the lower mid to bottom tier guilds ask for all sorts of logs from their apps. Or when they insist on you being a player from so and so expansions a go. That's fine and a little understandable for the top guilds, but not for the bottom midling ones. No one at that caliber is going to join a lower tier guild.

[Seezer]

Where did I say guilds should change their ways?
No,I know they fully have the right to decide how their application process works.
I'm here to light some truth on the issue,lots of folks on this topic think guild applications require serious dedication and view people who don't take them seriously like lazy and incompetent,well I'm clarifying the situation,those people are wrong,they're hypocrites and they should stop comparing their applications to job interviews,their applications deserve minimal effort,simply they're completely wrong.

Holy shit. Nobody is saying that it takes dedication to have an app process. Everyone has been saying that it is a tool for guilds to get what they are looking for. You're being just as much a hypocrite. Who the hell is comparing their applications to a job interview? IF YOU are comparing it to a job interview that's one thing. If you think that their questions make it feel like a job interview, that's another thing. But nobody is saying "Apps are like job interviews". Don't put words in other people's mouths.

[Beebeey]

Maybe, yeah. The world isn't going to bend to your will because you think something is ridiculous. Find a guild with progression you like and recruitment you like, or be willing to make a few compromises. Maybe start your own guild, and run it the way you think guilds should be run.

Oh come on now - Even the regular guilds on Illidan have some stupid requirements.

FU - There is one (Must have done 40 Naxx).
Gentlemen's Raid/Gold Club (really do I need to say more? the name kind of gives it away).

[Deleted]

And here's where we get down to it. People want to join a guild that is progressed. That's something they want. But they don't think they should have to fill out an app for it. Find a 2/6n MSV guild. There's nothing wrong with that. If a person is that against apps, then find a guild that doesn't have apps. There are tons.

You consider guilds who are stuck on a boss in HoF Normal after 4+ months, progressed? Only 8-10 NORMAL MODE bosses in all that time is progress to you?
I'm sure that on other realms even pugs do better than that. Such guilds just don't have the right to ask for vouches or real life questions. Neither are they in the position to frown on to-the-point 1-sentence answers.

But the worst of it all by far is the fact that most guilds have their entire app database visible to anyone on the realm, anyone in the whole world really. In proper guilds apps can only be seen by guild members, not everyone.

[Seezer]

I always found the idea of guild applications hilarious. I go through an application process for a job, not for wanting to shoot at some pixels in a game.

Sure, I may have filled 1 or 2 out in my long years of playing but I never saw the point. You can learn far more about a player by actually watching them play, imo.
And people wonder there are only about 2 million raiders out of 10 million...

I think self righteousness is hilarious. I really do. I think that people who think they know best what others should do is even more hilarous. Really. I'm lmfoa. So can you tell if a person is going to leave your guild after they gear up by seeing how they play? Can you tell if they're going to show up? Please man. Don't get worked up over what other people do.

[Kreeshak]

for me the most important requirement for lesser guilds would be to be available at specified times. All rest can be resolved much easier. A perfect applicant who doesnt have much time is way worse than a lesser applicant with the time and will to improve.

[Deleted]

You can have their time after you fill out an application. Get your entitlement out of here please.

Funny,so the applicant should put in maximal effort while the guild puts in no time at all,and I'm the one who has entitlement issues if I have a problem with this?
We've got an issue here,and it's more related to irony.

[mercutiouk]

So this is an "I'm awesome, I shouldn't have to apply to a guild" type post.

Applications cut down the number of dribbling morons that get invited to guilds. If someone can't be bothered to spend 30 minutes writing intelligently about themselves they probably won't be much of an asset to the average to aspiring raid guild.

Even for a moderately decent "social raiding" guild I'd expect an application process including a few weeks without loot as part of it, never mind just the apply. It's not out-dated it's making sure you'll actually put some effort in rather than turning up an expecting phat purples to run to the next guild with.

[Deleted]

[...]

Edit: I will comment that if I were to see serious typos/grammatical errors on a guild application form, I wouldn't even consider applying to that guild. That indicates that either they're too stupid to make the form look professional, or they care so little about the form that they don't care about what it looks like... in either case, I don't care to see what other things the guild treats in such a fashion. The same applies to talking to officers in-game; unless they're busy raiding (and if they are, I'll probably just talk to them later when they're free), if they're not capable of using something that resembles proper English I'm not interested in running with them (keep in mind I play on NA servers, so English is expected; if I were on EU servers I'd be a lot more forgiving of sub-par English skills.)

What if one of the officers is dyslectic? First-hand experience here. And he was one of the best players of that guild.

[Seezer]

You consider guilds who are stuck on a boss in HoF Normal after 4+ months, progressed? Only 8-10 NORMAL MODE bosses in all that time is progress to you?
I'm sure that on other realms even pugs do better than that. Such guilds just don't have the right to ask for vouches or real life questions. Neither are they in the position to frown on to-the-point 1-sentence answers.

But the worst of it all by far is the fact that most guilds have their entire app database visible to anyone on the realm, anyone in the whole world really. In proper guilds apps can only be seen by guild members, not everyone.

WHere did I say that "guilds who are stuck on a boss in HoF n after 4 months progressed"?

[Kreeshak]

I think self righteousness is hilarious. I really do. I think that people who think they know best what others should do is even more hilarous. Really. I'm lmfoa. So can you tell if a person is going to leave your guild after they gear up by seeing how they play? Can you tell if they're going to show up? Please man. Don't get worked up over what other people do.

THAT is hilarious! Do you really think a well written application will answer your questions?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Personally I love the application process.

Hahahaahah that picture, what the heck is it... I can't stop laughing!

I always found the idea of guild applications hilarious. I go through an application process for a job, not for wanting to shoot at some pixels in a game.

Sure, I may have filled 1 or 2 out in my long years of playing but I never saw the point. You can learn far more about a player by actually watching them play, imo. And people wonder why there are only about 2 million raiders out of 10 million...

This is an understandable thought process. The Application normally comes before the playing with them first part. Its just a first filter. Running a raid with someone takes more time and has more at stake. If you can't get past/be bothered with the application, why bother trying to run with that person? Think about it from their perspective.

[Beebeey]

What if one of the officers is dyslectic? First-hand experience here. And he was one of the best players of that guild.

I know a lot of people on this server that aren't native English speakers actually.