RNG chance for more Eler Charms

[alucardtnuoc]

Gear =/= skill

For example, you are only ranked on elegon normal. For someone who is trying to be "competitive" With your gear, you should have a rank on every fight....

So what you're actually asking for, is easier access to gear because you need to outgear content before you can progress. If you played better, you could do more then 29k on heroic stone guard.

[Deleted]

TBH I can't wait for 5.2 dailies, I cba doing any now because Its not rewarding me with anything other than lesser charms... and that's not enough for me... So any other way to gain them without having to do dailies that don't offer me any more rep is welcome

[anabolicz]

Ive never had 99 of them lesser charms :O

[Tradu]

Gear =/= skill

For example, you are only ranked on elegon normal. For someone who is trying to be "competitive" With your gear, you should have a rank on every fight....

So what you're actually asking for, is easier access to gear because you need to outgear content before you can progress. If you played better, you could do more then 29k on heroic stone guard.

WoL ranks are more about doing the fight "wrong" so a few people get to do higher DPS, and the whole raid not making mistakes in that DPS-whoring tactic. My current guild barely scrapes by using the "proper" tactics(because its a 25man, so theres lots of people who can/do make mistakes), so theres no room for DPS-whoring tactics.
On Stone Guards there is this mechanic called "you are chained to a painter, now go do no DPS for the rest of the fight, unless you get lucky and get a Jasper Petrification". Not going to say I'm the best Windwalker ever in the history of ever(I'm definately not, I only play in the 50th percentile on average, versus 90th percentile on my boomkin in Cataclysm. Theres lots of factors that play into, like the fact that I've only played a monk for about half a year and the fact that I'm raiding 25man instead of 10man). But none of that means that getting gear upgrades doesn't make a difference in progressing.

[Maelstrom51]

G
So what you're actually asking for, is easier access to gear because you need to outgear content before you can progress.

No, we're asking for the rewards to not be unique to daily quests. With this latest change, in order to maximize your gear you have to do the new daily quests every single day.

[alucardtnuoc]

I know what jasper chains do, and if you get chained then you should still be doing dps and having the ranged/healer/melee move with you. What you're talking about is poor coordination with your group who doesn't seem to know what to do. I am in charge of lighting up tiles yet i still can do 130k+ dps and if i don't light up tiles i am at 230k.

Being chained =/= dps loss unless you're ranged, as it's the ranged job to move to the melee, not the melee to range.

But the you are saying that if you get 5 pieces of gear your dps will double or something stupid. But i highly doubt it as you're not even playing as you say 50% of what you can do.

Also you're monk is gemmed/reforged wrong =) Which probably would help you out. Most likely you just need to learn how to play first, because even if you get 10 new upgrades, you're not going to become super awesome, nor will your entire raid magicly go from heroic garajal to heroic will, considering most people did what you're doing with a lot worse gear.

So instead of bitching that you can't get gear easier by not putting in more effort. Maybe you should actually have a talk with your raiders and see if you can improve on your tactics and strategies as well as coordination to actually progress further with what your gear should be letting you.


Edit ~ Maelstrom51, you do know, even if you get these coins, you still are not guaranteed to get anything even if you use 100 coins right? So trying to claim that "we need to do this to stay competitive" Nor when you get an item will it be guaranteed to be something you can actually put to use.

Spend more time actually playing good to down more content will grant you more things then wasting your time doing dailies as you wont even put the items you COULD potentially win to good use.

[Tradu]

Snip

Being chained to a painter is a 100% DPS loss as melee with the tactic my guild uses. I didn't say I only do 50% of the DPS I should be doing, 50th percentile means I'm playing quite close to the average Windwalker monk in terms of DPS(50th percentile is the median, and with the sample size on WoL, the median should be quite close to the average). I definately know what I'm doing in terms of playing in general(ranks on all DS fights, FL heroic except for Ragnaros and #3 on Gara'jal normal in the first week as boomkin), I just need to get used to playing Windwalker(only started playing it ~1 month ago, was Brewmaster before that)
The only problem with my current gemming is that I should probably go for another ~1k haste rating. Currently agility gems and secondary stat gems are worth almost the exact same DPS(agi at ~3.47 per point, haste/crit at ~1.74 per point). Gear upgrades DO make a difference, especially going from 476s to 502/496 was a massive jump in DPS.
I'm not the raidleader, in fact I'm still a trial(just like most people, because it's a very new guild based around a merger of a bunch of former 10man guilds).
But the thread isn't about my WoL ranks/gemming, its about the fact that Blizzard added another way to make dailies mandatory for gearing up at the highest possible speed, which DOES make a difference at all skill levels.

[Maelstrom51]

Maelstrom51, you do know, even if you get these coins, you still are not guaranteed to get anything even if you use 100 coins right? So trying to claim that "we need to do this to stay competitive" Nor when you get an item will it be guaranteed to be something you can actually put to use.

Statistically, it is a guarantee. Three attempts for ten players over several weeks, your raid is bound to get upgrades. I know my getting charms each weeks has gained the raid over 15 pieces of loot. With the entire raid getting charms, it makes a massive difference.

Also, its not a matter of "staying competitive", its a matter of doing anything I can to help my group out. I'm no longer in a high end heroic raid guild, only raiding with close friends doing mostly normal modes. But that's part of it - they're close friends and I want to do whatever I can to perform well. I feel obligated to do everything in my power to get the best gear.

By the way, I play my spec within ~90% of what my gear allows. And I know exactly what I need to do to improve the last bit, its just a matter of practice.

[Ryme]

It's stupid, it's clearly stupid. Solo quest play should not have so large an impact on group raid play, that shouldn't be a hard concept.

[Deleted]

But the you are saying that if you get 5 pieces of gear your dps will double or something stupid. But i highly doubt it as you're not even playing as you say 50% of what you can do.

Also you're monk is gemmed/reforged wrong =) Which probably would help you out. Most likely you just need to learn how to play first, because even if you get 10 new upgrades, you're not going to become super awesome, nor will your entire raid magicly go from heroic garajal to heroic will, considering most people did what you're doing with a lot worse gear.

Im not saying that any1 is doing anything wrong. But when our guild was running through normals we wiped on enrage on Garalon at around 1-2% for ages. At the same time I was still trying to get my wep from Elegon. When I finally got it my dps increased with like ~10k.

For us, that would have scored the kill on Garalon. That wasnt really our problem but my point is that 1 upgrade could actually help you score a kill on a progress boss.

Same thing with guilds that wiped on Hc Ultra enrage. Sometimes 5-10k dps is what is needed to down a boss. If you could get that increase 15% faster then why dont save your guild from some wipes on enrage?

[Maelstrom51]

Also, it fucking pisses me off that you keep repeating this:

So instead of bitching that you can't get gear easier by not putting in more effort.

No, that's not what we're bitching about. We're bitching that we have to do daily quests to get them. Aside from lolpokemon, daily quests are THE ONLY WAY, and this latest update makes the new daily quest hub all but required to get all of them.

If charms were available elsewhere and had a weekly cap that wasn't broken by daily quests, I wouldn't be complaining. Its not about the effort or work, its where we have to put that effort - and right now its daily quests, daily quests, and more daily quests. We want options.

[Deleted]

GC promised he heard we didn't like dailies.
GC promised future dailies would be as optional as 5.1 dailies (I never heard anyone complain about 5.1 dailies).
Now he turns completely around and we're stuck with having to do 5.2 dailies for as long as elder charms give extra loot in raids. Non-raiders might not understand how important the feeling is that you want to be the best you can for your group. Every raider is realising we'll not only do these dailies for months in 5.2, but for months and months and months afterwards. Doesn't matter that the reward is maybe only 1% chance of extra loot, that still means after 3months of dailies we'll get one extra piece and for a raid group you want that. It's not worth it, you don't need it, but you want it and as such you will force yourself to do it.

How to make raiders stop whining:
- make elder charms come from any activity ingame so that they become extremely easy to gather and put a weekly cap on them (weekly cap of 3)
Or:
- just remove the stupid things

MOP is the first xpack where I have enjoyed nothing outside of raiding. I log on daily to do scenario+dungeon+some dailies and then I'm sick of doing all the content that isn't fun. No time for achievement hunting anymore, no chatting in sw, no time spend on my 2alts.
I would pay Blizzard extra money if I wouldn't have to spend time on boring content. Hear me kotick?

[Tradu]

GC promised he heard we didn't like dailies.
GC promised future dailies would be as optional as 5.1 dailies (I never heard anyone complain about 5.1 dailies).

The 5.1 dailies were the most fun dailies of the expansion by far, beating Klaxxi and Golden Lotus for story by miles. And they didn't take forever to complete because of the higher respawn rates on most stuff.

[Airwaves]

People miss the point of elders charms. They are a reward for putting the time and effort into dailies.

No Effort then no reward its as easy as that. If you want the reward you put in the effort.

[Deleted]

People miss the point of elders charms. They are a reward for putting the time and effort into dailies.

No Effort then no reward its as easy as that. If you want the reward you put in the effort.

And why exactly cant we put that EFFORT somewhere else?
Like dungeons/petbattles/brawler challenges or just anything except dailies...

[Maelstrom51]

People miss the point of elders charms. They are a reward for putting the time and effort into dailies.

No Effort then no reward its as easy as that. If you want the reward you put in the effort.

And we're saying that its stupid to reward only dailies for this effort. It makes dailies feel required for raiders. I wouldn't be complaining if there were other places I could put my effort to get the rewards.

Out of curiosity, why do you think ONLY DAILY QUESTS should be rewarded with elder charms?

And why exactly cant we put that EFFORT somewhere else?
Like dungeons/petbattles/brawler challenges or just anything except dailies...

To add to this, challenge modes, optional mini bosses in raids (i.e frost giant in ICC), rare spawns, heroic dungeons, crafting. There's a lot of places you could put them to reward extra effort. I see no reason it needs to be contained to daily quests.

[Airwaves]

And why exactly cant we put that EFFORT somewhere else?
Like dungeons/petbattles/brawler challenges or just anything except dailies...

Because they already reward you in other ways. Elder charms are the reward for dailies. You don't NEED them. If you raid with a guild that tells you to have them then that is the way the guild works. If you don't like it find another guild.

And we're saying that its stupid to reward only dailies for this effort. It makes dailies feel required for raiders.

And this goes into what I just said.

[Maelstrom51]

Because they already reward you in other ways. Elder charms are the reward for dailies. You don't NEED them. If you raid with a guild that tells you to have them then that is the way the guild works. If you don't like it find another guild.

All logic you use against needing charms can also be used against gems and enchants. We can agree that gems and enchants are de facto mandatory, yes?

[Otimus]

Why in the world should Blizzard cater to the complaints of the 5% who actually raid? I never got that. I don't even really get why it's a problem. So, like, you want the same rewards something gives, from something else? No other aspects of the game work that way :x certain things only reward certain things. That's just how it is. When some casual starts complaining that they want heroic raid gear from running scenarios, should that be listened to, too? If you don't like, or can't do something, why should you get the rewards from it? You don't have to do it. If you feel compelled to do it, that's your weird, very weird, broken issues, and probably issues with your guild and other people you associate with, more than anything being actually wrong with the game.

[Airwaves]

All logic you use against needing charms can also be used against gems and enchants. We can agree that gems and enchants are de facto mandatory, yes?

They aren't needed. If you don't want them you don't have to bother to put the time into getting them. As for what other players and guilds think about that. Well that is there choice. Don't like it, don't raid.