Paladins, I need your help.

[Deleted]

The answer to your first question is yes. My answer to the rest is: have you seen all of the paladins begging us not to change the way haste works for them because it is both useful and fun? Are they all wrong too? Nah, never mind, don't answer that.

This is the latest GC has said on the matter. Are we on our way to victory? Has Blizzard realized all we're asking for is to let us keep the fun and amazingness that haste brings to protection paladins?

By the light.

Source?

10char

[Deleted]

Source?

10char

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...-bonus-issues/

Post #1116

[Deleted]

In context I don't think it means anything. Since when has something being fun and useful to us ever stopped them tearing Paladins apart before?

We'll see, but for now I'm gonna work on my Warrior's gear.

[Deleted]

In almost every guild I've ever been in the tank gets gear FIRST. Always. Tanks are keys to progression.

My raid groups progression has many problems (about 7) but tanks being "undergeared" ain't one of them. Dps has been the key to9 progression for as long as I remember.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

The answer to your first question is yes. My answer to the rest is: have you seen all of the paladins begging us not to change the way haste works for them because it is both useful and fun? Are they all wrong too? Nah, never mind, don't answer that.

This is the latest GC has said on the matter. Are we on our way to victory? Has Blizzard realized all we're asking for is to let us keep the fun and amazingness that haste brings to protection paladins?

By the light.

Well, he did say

It only gets to be a problem, as I said previously, if dodge and parry (which are going to be on some gear) are perceived as pointless. (They aren't pointless, but that's really beside the point at this stage.) We aren't going to reitemize every plate piece in the game to remove dodge and parry. We also don't want to nerf haste for paladins, because it is fun, and for the most part working as intended [note: BL's emphasis]. We don't have a solution yet that we're willing to share, but that's the intent.

(is in a thread somewhere, linked to on the MMOC front page.

[Xothic]

The answer to your first question is yes. My answer to the rest is: have you seen all of the paladins begging us not to change the way haste works for them because it is both useful and fun? Are they all wrong too? Nah, never mind, don't answer that.

This is the latest GC has said on the matter. Are we on our way to victory? Has Blizzard realized all we're asking for is to let us keep the fun and amazingness that haste brings to protection paladins?

By the light.

What this says to me is that Blizzard is hearing out outcry regarding the potential changes. All that matters now is whether or not they choose to actually listen to that outcry.

[Tanyn]

I'm just hoping they boost our parry/dodge up so it can be just as useful and you can choose to tank whichever way you feel works for you and your raid. /crossfingers

[Deleted]

What this says to me is that Blizzard is hearing out outcry regarding the potential changes. All that matters now is whether or not they choose to actually listen to that outcry.

They actually acknowledging there is an outcry is in itself suprisingly positive, unfortunately. That means we're, at the very least, heard.

[Deleted]

just add sth that proccs from parry and block that makes gameplay less static without haste.

"reconing": whenever you parry/evade(100%) [maybe! plus block(30%chance when blocking, not making mastery any more valuable))] an attack this spell is free to use. does x%weapondmg and half x%weapondmg as holydmg to the target and a nearby target, generates 1 holypower, off global, 4.5-6sec cd.

i think parry scales bad on the one hand, but its also! very 1dimensional. on the other hand "haste" generates: more holypower (thus more defense or heal), more dmg, and actually more fun (cause 1.5sec global feels like grampa), thats why many use it i think;

look at warriors: parry and block proccs so many things its actually FUN to stack those for yourself.

the only fun in a paladin parrying sth is for the healer. i never get yippieeh i parried that attack ... i know it makes protpally more like protwarrior, but i think reconing is sth thats actually missing. every other tank i play (i play them all at 90) have sth that triggers or activates from parry/block/evade. dk get bloodscent from parry which results in 100% more heal and thus more bloodshield. warriors already stated that: parry=revenge(with +50%dmg)=rage=defense/offense. bears are meant to scale with crit/haste, same for monks, so they dont actually stack defstats anyway.

i think paladin is missing sth that makes parry/evade more "interesting" for tanking overall, not only one-dimensional "eeeeey i wasnt hit today" ... i dont raid much, maybe in raids only numbers count, but i really must say protpally is very ... slomo tanking. its not very challenging. generate holypower, use it for heals or dmgreduce (if thats more than a selfheal) ... thats it.

[Deleted]

We dont want proc, we want reliability. Adding procs do dodge and parry would be moronic. Would mess up the entire game play.

[Xs]

You could just remove the active part of that to at least make Parry an interesting thought, so when you parry you riposte back for 50% of weapon damage or something, still not going to help tanking in the slightest, but better than just giving Paladins Rune Strike lol

[silvertitan]

I'm just hoping they boost our parry/dodge up so it can be just as useful and you can choose to tank whichever way you feel works for you and your raid. /crossfingers

You can already do that, i have zero haste and have Main tanked all the way up to Heroic Sha. As long as we still have that option in 5.2 it'll be fine, people are just afraid we will be forced to gear a certain way which would indeed suck.

[Tumble]

The only way I can see them getting rid of haste and making us go back to dodge/parry, would be a mechanic that lets your next Sacred shield proc be increased by x% of the dmg that was dodged/blocked/parried while the shield wasnt up. Not only would that smooth out the dmg but it would make it so we didnt want haste, on anything. Of course Im just guessing that it would work. =D

[Deleted]

We dont want proc, we want reliability. Adding procs do dodge and parry would be moronic. Would mess up the entire game play.

how could sth that ADDITIONALLY proc and is OFF THE GLOBAL mess up any current gameplay?! providing that hammering 3 buttons is an actual gameplay -.-' i think protpally is overwhelmingly undewhelming when it comes to complexity. you think warrior gameplay is "messed up" because of revenge?! its interesting.

you wouldn't wait on that proc, you would just use it, if it proccs. noones asking for removal of anything that curretly provides constant holypower generation. it would just randomly ADD holypower ON TOP of the good fluent generation. i cant see your point. you really want a class where everything happens automatic and just press CS/hoR and after 3times soR ?! thats boring as fuck. did you ever play monktank or warrior or whatever class? paladin is really very automatic ... i mean

CS/HoR,judgement, CS/HoR, SoR/woG ... thats not gameplay. THAT is moronic. i mean. wow. fuckin interesting.

[Revvo]

how could sth that ADDITIONALLY proc and is OFF THE GLOBAL mess up any current gameplay?! providing that hammering 3 buttons is an actual gameplay -.-' i think protpally is overwhelmingly undewhelming when it comes to complexity. you think warrior gameplay is "messed up" because of revenge?! its interesting.

you wouldn't wait on that proc, you would just use it, if it proccs. noones asking for removal of anything that curretly provides constant holypower generation. it would just randomly ADD holypower ON TOP of the good fluent generation. i cant see your point. you really want a class where everything happens automatic and just press CS/hoR and after 3times soR ?! thats boring as fuck. did you ever play monktank or warrior or whatever class? paladin is really very automatic ... i mean

CS/HoR,judgement, CS/HoR, SoR/woG ... thats not gameplay. THAT is moronic. i mean. wow. fuckin interesting.

Adding a random proc results in a lot of potentially wasted HoPo. That's inefficient.

[Deleted]

Adding a random proc results in a lot of potentially wasted HoPo. That's inefficient.

sry but i dont get it. lets say that additional skill would have a 6sec cd. this would lead to exact 3 hopo after 18sec additionally to those you generate normally. so you use soR all 18sec one more. i really dont get it, where this additional holypower would be wasted ... thats like saying an additional chi via the jab talent of monk is always wasted o0. just to make clear, that ability shall GENERATE one holypower, not USING one. i think you got me wrong maybe.

using this ability AFTER parrying will GENERATE 1 holypower, not consuming one. so lets say you get into fight, and make Judge, cs and then you parry, u use this and have 3 power, soR and then you go on by next CS ... i dont get where this is wasted holypower in ANY way. you always use 3 hopo, and can store an additional two. i dont get it, where additional holypower would be wasted?! one more heal, one more shieldslam after 18sec. i cant see anything wrong with that ...

the only conclusion I can come up with, is that youre using a makro with castsequence cs, j,wrath,cs+soR and just dont want your makro broken or something. and you are telling me things about complexity?! its not fukin up your "rotation", its fukin your one-button-makro ... thats the only conclusion i can come up with, why you dont like an additional holypower via parrying. and as far as randomness is concerned, did you ever play warriortank? revenge its nearly UP everytime. maybe paladin really became a class for one-button former warlocks ... donno but i really cant understand your arguement, because i played paladin 7 years and i never had those issues.

okay at the beginning, where ret RELIED on proccs. but as long as a procc is additional, i cant see the point.

[Deleted]

thats the only conclusion i can come up with, why you dont like an additional holypower via parrying. and as far as randomness is concerned, did you ever play warriortank? revenge its nearly UP everytime. maybe paladin really became a class for one-button former warlocks ... donno but i really cant understand your arguement, because i played paladin 7 years and i never had those issues.

You're not getting it. Procs aren't that interesting; either they're up constantly (like you're proposing) in which case, why is it even a proc then? Or they're not up enough and it becomes something totally unreliable and "bad" RNG. Haste has tons of effects; Higher DPS, better healing, more SS ticks, more reliable HoPo generation which in turn ups mitigation. The ability you're suggesting only increases our DPS and "game feel" (ie, having more buttons to press to replace the shorter hasted cooldowns). In turn when we gear up it doesn't really feel like our power goes up since our gameplay remains static even WITH this proc (because it's up everytime we need it anyway).

With Haste, the more you have the more you notice it affecting every aspect of your character.

[Deleted]

We should stop worrying about how they can make dodge and parry more appealing and actually make sure they don't fuck Hasteadins.

[celinamuna]

We should stop worrying about how they can make dodge and parry more appealing and actually make sure they don't fuck Hasteadins.

We also don't want to nerf haste for paladins, because it is fun, and for the most part working as intended

I have hope, while i'm not too interested in how they're going to make parry/dodge more interesting. (I like my kickass healing done / dps tbh)

[Deleted]

We also don't want to nerf haste for paladins, because it is fun, and for the most part working as intended

I have hope, while i'm not too interested in how they're going to make parry/dodge more interesting. (I like my kickass healing done / dps tbh)

I'm the OP on who wrote that massive thing on eu/us forums about how they shouldn't nerf haste by the way, I'm not saying PLZ NERF HASTEZZZ.
I just have a feeling he's going to nerf our Sanctity of Battle and then buff how well we scale with dodge/parry.
Problem is, if he does that, he's gonna have to boost our DPS... a lot. Right now Brewmaster > Guardian > Blood > Protection Paladin > Protection Warrior.