The U.S, Then France, Now Russia. Gay rights issues

[Grummgug]

When will society finally grow up and accept things like this?

You don't sound like much of a student of history.

If you had studied history, you'd realize that human society seems to constantly go back and forth on social issues. In the case of homosexuality, if you look at 4000 years of data, you'll find it oscillates between being ok and taboo. Its a neverending fickleness. I have to assume it depends on who controls the media and what agenda they have. The media is a VERY powerful tool and can be used to convince the masses of anything. It can be used to convince people homosexuality is ok, but it can also teach people to hate homosexuals. If the people who control the media decide demagoging homosexuals will advance their agenda, that's what they will do and the hate will take hold. And you'd be surprised how FAST hate can spread.

One thing to understand is that there NEVER is social progress. Its an endless cycle going back and forth, like humanity is stuck in a rut. You probably think that we've made social progress by accepting homosexuality, but history says in 300 years, social rules will swing back the other way and it will be taboo again.

[Deleted]

These two idiots were actively trying to provoke. That's why they got a ticket. They got a ticket for provoking not for kissing each other. Do you think these two are the first two male guys that ever kissed in Russia??? Or do you think it should be allowed for a heterosexual couple to start making out and fucking in front of a church? Do you think it should be absolutely OK to provoke on purpose?


Just as i gained a little respect for America they find a new opportunity to point fingers at other countries so they can feel better about themselves.

I am not American, you can see my location which is located under my Avatar, which is another clue by the way.

[Wikiy]

There are a lot of Christians in Russia.

Doesn't have anything to do with Christians. According to the latest census, my country, Croatia, had 84% Christians and a further 8% religious people of other denominations and we're still getting civil unions and gay adoption this year.

[Deleted]

Doesn't have anything to do with Christians. According to the latest census, my country, Croatia, had 84% Christians and a further 8% religious people of other denominations and we're still getting civil unions and gay adoption this year.

My boyfriends family is catholic, they go to mass on Sunday and everything, yet they accept our relationship. Christianity is not the problem, people that ignore what Jesus said and follow the words of others in the bible in the problem. Jesus let a whore follow him around, he didn't give a shit who loved who as long as we were all good to each other.

[Grummgug]

If you really want the cynical view about gay rights, its that none of this is about gay rights.

Its about elites / "intellectuals" holding "superior" beliefs to the common man and rural folk. by "superior" we really mean "different" which they SELL as being superior because they have degrees and letters and the rest of the plebs do not. The day rural farmers accept homosexuality is the day it is at-risk of becoming taboo, because the elites will find it disgusting to hold the same beliefs as a farmer. So one should predict that, at that point, elites will begin to seek ways to argue for intolerance of homosexuality.

And its that elitism that drives this never-ending wheel where gay rights goes from being ok, to taboo, and back again, over and over.

[Wikiy]

All those gay parades and ostentatious kissing don't help you people get a good image around the world.

Don't get me wrong, as a gay person, I hate gay parades as well because they endorse so many stereotypes that are generally untrue for a vast majority of the gay population, but are you actually saying gay parades help people hate us more? Because, you know, that's kind of like saying women that get raped get raped because they "challenge" the rapists with their way of dressing. It's a bullshit argument. Regarding the kissing part. I'm sorry, but if I have to "endure" heterosexuals kissing in public on a daily basis, you have to endure homosexuals doing the same.

[someotherguy]

Doesn't have anything to do with Christians. According to the latest census, my country, Croatia, had 84% Christians and a further 8% religious people of other denominations and we're still getting civil unions and gay adoption this year.

The vote passed 388 to 1, it doesn't really sound like a Christian issue, though I've been out of Russian politics for over 20 years, hell knows how it changed - people seemed anti-religion when I left, so I don't think they would worry about what Christianity says on any topic.

I am not American, you can see my location which is located under my Avatar, which is another clue by the way.

When we're sufficiently prejudice against a group, provocation doesn't have to be done by same group, or make any sense.

[Wikiy]

So they're trying to ban gay pride parades. Seems reasonable to me. They seem like they would be rather annoying to have happen in whatever city/town you lived in.

They are rather annoying, but they wont be for people in the future because they'll grow up with it, get used to the weird people there (not gays, but the drag queens and the like) and learn to tolerate them. That's the whole point.

Personally, I'm neutral towards gay parades. I hate the kind of people that can often be found there that say they represent the gay population, but at the same time, they have a positive influence for the rights movement. I mean, just look at this. I'd have a hard time banning that. That's awesome.

[Hyve]

When cornering any creature, it'll lash out in almost extreme ways to defend itself.

This is exactly what the homophobic society is doing. They're ignoring all the evidence that proves that no religion (for those that have religious hatreds of homosexuality) ever stated a hatred for homosexuality, until it was re-written.

Those who hate homosexuals are less in number now then ever, we just live in a world were when someone says something, it can appear around the world within a couple of seconds, so while it may seem as if more and more people are homophobic, it isn't true. It is just the deluded and remaning few that are now making more extreme laws and rules to try and save their ignorant minority.

Also, as a note. I hate to use the word homophobia, a phobia is an irrational fear of something. These people don't have an irrational fear of homosexuals, they're just pig minded retards.

---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 02:22 PM ----------

My boyfriends family is catholic, they go to mass on Sunday and everything, yet they accept our relationship. Christianity is not the problem, people that ignore what Jesus said and follow the words of others in the bible in the problem. Jesus let a whore follow him around, he didn't give a shit who loved who as long as we were all good to each other.

The vatican accept several years ago (I'll see if I can find the information) that Mary was not a whore, and that they fabricated that as to give men more power.

[Jackmoves]

I think people who hate parades reinforce the stereotype, there are a lot of normal folks in the parade here, sure you get the fully deced out drags to, but most of them are normal people(you get their kids in the parade as well), in tshirts and trousers, nothing weird with it imo. Just a lot of happy people. Most gay people ain't drags in funny clothes ;P

[Nerevar]

As Imant Kalninsh said: "EU gave us a lot of presents. The biggest - high count of people leaving the country. Second present - gambling houses and clubs. Third - graffity. Fourth - homeless. And another present - yearly gay-parades and europride in 2015, which was brought to us in package named "European democratic values" " - not the actual quote, just translated it as best as I could. And it's from Latvia, but the same is happening in Russia. West brings its values to it, not even knowing, that such values are not needed there. I wish western countries would keep such democratic "presents" to themselves.

In Russia such things will never come through. And that's a good thing. You want be gay? Be gay in your country. No need to bring this to anywhere else. And seriously. Other countries judging? Keep your democracy to yourself.

[Bakis]

As Imant Kalninsh said: "EU gave us a lot of presents. The biggest - high count of people leaving the country. Second present - gambling houses and clubs. Third - graffity. Fourth - homeless. And another present - yearly gay-parades and europride in 2015, which was brought to us in package named "European democratic values" " - not the actual quote, just translated it as best as I could. And it's from Latvia, but the same is happening in Russia. West brings its values to it, not even knowing, that such values are not needed there. I wish western countries would keep such democratic "presents" to themselves.

In Russia such things will never come through. And that's a good thing. You want be gay? Be gay in your country. No need to bring this to anywhere else. And seriously. Other countries judging? Keep your democracy to yourself.

What about the 10% of all russians who are gay? They cant be who they are in their own country = oppressed.

[Deleted]

As Imant Kalninsh said: "EU gave us a lot of presents. The biggest - high count of people leaving the country. Second present - gambling houses and clubs. Third - graffity. Fourth - homeless. And another present - yearly gay-parades and europride in 2015, which was brought to us in package named "European democratic values" " - not the actual quote, just translated it as best as I could. And it's from Latvia, but the same is happening in Russia. West brings its values to it, not even knowing, that such values are not needed there. I wish western countries would keep such democratic "presents" to themselves.

In Russia such things will never come through. And that's a good thing. You want be gay? Be gay in your country. No need to bring this to anywhere else. And seriously. Other countries judging? Keep your democracy to yourself.

You just reminded me of Mahmoud Ahmadineyad, who said that there was no homosexuality in Iran, that that was only a problem of the western countries.
"In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country," "in Iran we do not have this phenomenon, I don't know who has told you that we have it."

Yeah, of course. When they find one homosexual either they make them change their sex or they hang them.

[PACOX]

If you really want the cynical view about gay rights, its that none of this is about gay rights.

Its about elites / "intellectuals" holding "superior" beliefs to the common man and rural folk. by "superior" we really mean "different" which they SELL as being superior because they have degrees and letters and the rest of the plebs do not. The day rural farmers accept homosexuality is the day it is at-risk of becoming taboo, because the elites will find it disgusting to hold the same beliefs as a farmer. So one should predict that, at that point, elites will begin to seek ways to argue for intolerance of homosexuality.

And its that elitism that drives this never-ending wheel where gay rights goes from being ok, to taboo, and back again, over and over.

Nah, if you really want the nitty gritty its about the government and corporations not wanting to honor the x amount of marriage contracts that come with gay marriage.

Governments (non theocratic) and corporations are only concerned with the financial side of marriage. The shared benefits and what not. If they can block gay marriages then thats just more benefits they don't have to dish out.

As for religions, I can speak for Christians and say that most don't care. The only people defined as "Christian" in the media are ultra conservative fundamentalist who represent only a small fraction of Christians. Even among the ones that define marriage as man and women would support governments dropping marriage all together and allowing anyone to form civil unions, that way the rules of marriage are up to the believer and not the government.

[Jackmoves]

In Russia such things will never come through. And that's a good thing. You want be gay? Be gay in your country. No need to bring this to anywhere else. And seriously. Other countries judging? Keep your democracy to yourself.

Do you feel offended? Are these people pushing your limit? Do they scare you? This is pretty much how 90% of our parade looks(was 50.000 people in it 2012, not all are even gay), it's just ordinary people who happend to be gayers.

[Deleted]

Do you feel offended? Are these people pushing your limit? Do they scare you? This is pretty much how 90% of our parade looks(was 50.000 people in it 2012, not all are even gay), it's just ordinary people who happend to be gayers.

The only thing that annoys me is the rainbow flag, who the hell chose that to represent homosexuality?

[Bakis]

The only thing that annoys me is the rainbow flag, who the hell chose that to represent homosexuality?

I think it is a perfect symbol.

Edit: think it represent HBT tbh not just homosexuality.

HBT tbh heh funny choice of words

[Deleted]

The only thing that annoys me is the rainbow flag, who the hell chose that to represent homosexuality?

*facepalm*

Really?
After being shown a parade made of "normal looking" people*, you still have to complain about the flag? You are deliberately looking for things to offend you. You are grasping at this point. You could say as well that what annoys you is that they chose the word "gay" (happy, merry) to describe themselves.

*And that's what most of the Gay Pride parades look like. The really flashy and explicit floats are a minority, but the only part that appears in the mass media.

[Xanjori]

*facepalm*

Really?
After being shown a parade made of "normal looking" people*, you still have to complain about the flag? You are deliberately looking for things to offend you. You are grasping at this point. You could say as well that what annoys you is that they chose the word "gay" (happy, merry) to describe themselves.

*And that's what most of the Gay Pride parades look like. The really flashy and explicit floats are a minority, but the only part that appears in the mass media.

Well you're a great one. Attacking a gay guy for his dislike of the flag, I can see you do really well in these kind of discussions. Same old shit in these discussions, everyone too eager to take offence and launch an ad hominem.

[Frozenbeef]

]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-YCdcnf_P8

People are afraid Parades and TV will brainwash their kids. Wouldn't you be afraid TV networks like Fox could turn your kids in to Creations?

Ha thanks for that video :P and yeh i would be terrified of anyone i knew/cared about believing in media such as fox news / the sun news paper >.<