Concerning Bolvar.

[Deleted]

Actually the scourge wouldn't overwhelm everything. You think a small horde of undiciplined leaderless undead would stand a chance to win against a fortified castle etc? Win against a small army of paladins etc? You forget that they wouldn't be an army. They would come one by one towards mortal settlement and be destroyed utterly before they even come within 50 yards of it.

Yes it could, because it would spread like an infestation and not like an army. And normally there wouldn't be a small army of paladins at hand whenever someone stumbles over a corps.
Also who would make sure that no necromancer or forsaken would use the absense of a proper LK to install himselve as a new one?

Ner'zhul and the Lichking both where somewhat conventional guy's that led a somehow convetional war. That both didn't want a mindless Zombihorde doesn't mean it wouldn't have won. (I personnally still think that deep down Arthas was aware of this and he used this "I let you butcher all my champions to get you as even better champions"-plot to stop himself from overwhelming everyone with a Zombihorde).

[Vaelorian]

Even if all the scourge and the current LK Bolvar get obliterated that doesn't mean there will be no longer undead in the game and story. Necromancy magics and undeads existed before the LK. Examples will be in Pandaria so many spirits and undeads there. The entire mogu'shan vault raid is about undead spirits of the previous mogu warlords.

While that is true, you think that these small number of necromancers would keep the world populated like it is now?

[klaps_05]

only silly thing i find is that bolvar goes all "i must be forgotten" and "noone must know what happened here", and yet there is a monumental in mid dalaran with a movie attached.

#bolvarforworlddomination2014expansion

[Velshin]

While that is true, you think that these small number of necromancers would keep the world populated like it is now?

Not only talking about that. I was talking in general a lot of undead and zombies in the story not only the LK is capable of doing so. Another examples will be ZG and ZF undead trolls and the undead voodoo spirits.

[Vaelorian]

Yes it would, because it would spread like an infestation and not like an army. And normally there wouldn't be a small army of paladins at hand whenever someone stumbles over a corps.

Ner'zhul and the Lichking both where somewhat conventional guy's that led a somehow convetional war. That both didn't want a mindless Zombihorde doesn't mean it wouldn't have won. (I personnally still think that deep down Arthas was aware of this and he used this "I let you butcher all my champions to get you as even better champions"-plot to stop himself from overwhelming everyone with a Zombihorde).

It wouldn't be an infestation at all. There is no more plague really. I dare say that you were attacked a lot by undead right ingame? Did you ever turn into an undead apart from during the transition from TBC to WOTLK?

Apart from that, let's say that it is an infestation and everyone who stumbled upon a corpse (touched it and the like) would be turned... wouldn't there be special units formed? Special strike teams ready to get this corpse and everyone it had infected quarantined? Cause that normally happen imo.

Ofcourse a lot of these teams would have their hands full in the beginning and villagers would probably be asked to leave their homes for a while until this undead "infestation" would have been dealt with properly. The few unnoticed corpses that remain would be dealt with later on. Much like mines in Real Life.

[Verdugo]

Yes it could, because it would spread like an infestation and not like an army. And normally there wouldn't be a small army of paladins at hand whenever someone stumbles over a corps.

Thats really bullshit. Any infestation in fiction is useless without hive mind. Zerg fight among themselves without overmind, Tyranids revert to animalistic state when severed from synapse, Necromorphs turn into sludge without marker. What makes scourge different. Their strengths were not in numbers, but by keeping those numbers going. They no longer have necromancers to keep raising them.

[elfox]

King Teneras? But yes it could be Arthas.

If i'm not mistaken, King Terenas is laying in Western Plaguelands.

[Vaelorian]

Not only talking about that. I was talking in general a lot of undead and zombies in the story not only the LK is capable of doing so. Another examples will be ZG and ZF undead trolls and the undead voodoo spirits.

Oh yeah I agree that undeadstuff wouldn't dissapear. But it wouldn't be like it is now. That's my point.

[Mic_128]

Looking forwards, either
A) Bolvar is left as a "forever cliffhangar" just to leave people wondering what if
B) Bolvar helps us combat the Legion with a severely weakened scourge (like how the Alliance supposedly gained sway of the dark iron dwarves after the council of three hammers was formed, but all dark iron settlements stayed in enemy hands)
C) Bolvar helps us take down Sylvannas.

D) Left as a hook for a potential game after WoW.

King Teneras? But yes it could be Arthas.

That was my first thought too, but then I remembered the WC3 campaign where we go and steal the Urn that had Terenas' ashes to use to raise Kel'Thuzard. His memorial is in the Undercity.

http://www.wowhead.com/object=175659...as-menethil-ii

[Vaelorian]

If i'm not mistaken, King Terenas is laying in Western Plaguelands.

Oh thanks will check that out once I am back home. Not to rebuke your comment, but to look at the grave itself. I love lore

[Velshin]

Thats really bullshit. Any infestation in fiction is useless without hive mind. Zerg fight among themselves without overmind, Tyranids revert to animalistic state when severed from synapse, Necromorphs turn into sludge without marker. What makes scourge different. Their strengths were not in numbers, but by keeping those numbers going. They no longer have necromancers to keep raising them.

In fact the scourge strength of their indeed numbers because any enemy they encounter will be their potiantlly part of their undead army.

[Lumineus]

Arthas destroyed Ner'zhul in the Arthas book. This was confirmed by Metzen at Blizzcon Q&A.

The way it reads in the book, the Lich King isn't Ner'Zhul, but it isn't fully "Arthas" either, because Arthas had some sort of dissociative pathos and only his outer, psychotic personality was corrupted, but his inner self was too weak to assert control and was cast out, and later destroyed by Tirion. Still, the existence of Matthias Lehner long after he was supposedly destroyed suggests that Ner'Zhul might not be well and truly gone.

[Verdugo]

In fact the scourge strength of their indeed numbers because any enemy they encounter will be their potiantlly part of their undead army.

And who will raise that enemy. Ghouls?

Remember that those undead that have enouh intelect to raise dead were not controled.

[Vaelorian]

And who will raise that enemy. Ghouls?

Remember that those undead that have enouh intelect to raise dead were not controled.

I don't think Velshin disagreed with you but actually gave more merit to your post.

[Zenko]

Actually the scourge wouldn't overwhelm everything. You think a small horde of undiciplined leaderless undead would stand a chance to win against a fortified castle etc? Win against a small army of paladins etc? You forget that they wouldn't be an army. They would come one by one towards mortal settlement and be destroyed utterly before they even come within 50 yards of it.

I think the point is that the undead still spread their plague, even when they are 'slain', no?

[Seezer]

Hey

I just thought of something, do you think Bolvar will "turn" evil someday, and that we need to fight him as a new Lich King? I've never been a big lore fan or anything, but I killed LK again today and it made me think of it.

For those that do not know who I'm talking about:
Bolvar was a soldier of the alliance, that went up against the Lich King, got poisened by the Forsaken and burned by Dragons breath/fire. Wich left him as a living burned man.
And when the Lich King was defeated, he got crowned as a new Lich King, as there must always be one.

So what do you think? Will we see a return of Bolvar as an evil force, making us fight the scourge yet again.

I doubt it. It would be a pretty weak story. And we've already went through it.

[Vaelorian]

I think the point is that the undead still spread their plague, even when they are 'slain', no?

Yes but I already spoke about that in a later post - good point regardless Zenko

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20097220

[Verdugo]

I think the point is that the undead still spread their plague, even when they are 'slain', no?

Well, then entire living population in Northrend during wotlk had really strong anti-viral plot armor, because otherwise, everyone would be infected before we could clear Naxxramas.

[Vaelorian]

Well, then entire living population in Northrend during wotlk had really strong anti-viral plot armor, because otherwise, everyone would be infected before we could clear Naxxramas.

Or and I believe you and I are of the same mind in this (yes?) there really isn't anymore plague. The plaguegrain has been gone since 4ever. I haven't seen anyone turn unless it was under special circumstances that was something different then the usual "bite". So perhaps it is a myth now that you turn if you come in contact with undead. Or they removed that aspect from the game cause it wouldn't be playable.

I go for the myth.

[Deleted]

Bolvar will join the Alliance at the Siege of Orgrimmar with his Scourge Army to help wipe out the Horde.