I'm using the VP trink + Relic 2/2, and just got an LFR Unerring Vision. Should I replace the Relic with it?
I'm frost, gonna switch over to fire once I get a little bit more crit.
I'm using the VP trink + Relic 2/2, and just got an LFR Unerring Vision. Should I replace the Relic with it?
I'm frost, gonna switch over to fire once I get a little bit more crit.
VP trinket vs Cha-Ya LFR for fire? I'm leaning towards Cha-Ya
(Other trink is BotH normal)
Last edited by mmoc58ecfb2e10; 2013-04-24 at 11:07 AM.
I'd appreciate a little advice on my less-than-optimal trinkets, and I didn't notice any questions earlier in the thread comparing this specific combination.
I'm currently using the (522) Shadow-Pan Assault, and a (484, 2/2 upgraded) Relic of Yu'lon. For various reasons, I never got any version of LotC, only the (483/LFR) version of EoT, and I haven't gotten any version of Wushoolay's or Cha-Ye's yet. However, I did just get the (502/LFR) version of Breath of the Hydra.
SPA (522) is better than 502 BotH, right? But what about (502) BotH versus (484) Yu'lon? I ran across some info that said a (484) Yu'lon was still a hair better than even the (522) BotH, but I'm not sure I trust the source (Maxdps.com), and I don't really have time to try and find a tool and sim it myself.
FYI: I'm Frost, currently at 511 iLvl, and I'm still rocking 4-PC T14 until the RNG gods deign to grant me a 2nd T15 piece.
Thanks in advance for any input.
I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose!
502 BotH is much much better then the vp trinket for frost. Yu'lon vs the vp trinket I'm really not sure.
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Since multiple people asked I just simmed it. Here's a rough trinket list for frost:
502 Wushoolay > 502 BotH > 502 Cha-Ye > Vp trinket > 484 RoY.
Remember it could certainly be different for you depending on gear and if in doubt sim it. According to the sims I did BotH and wushoolay are easily the best for frost.
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Cha-Ye's wins hands down over the VP trinket. It has a damn nice uptime, base crit on it and the proc is miles ahead of the VP proc.
I'll take an int proc over a very short haste proc for fire any day of the week.
Now I'm curious. I currently am running Cha-Ye's+Wushoolays. I see a lot of mages around my ilvl(519 currently) running the same instead of using BoTH over Wushoolays. I'm curious about if I should bother trying to get BoTH or just stick with what I have currently. I'm liking the hit and have adjusted to the stacking int on wush, making sure to overwrite NT when it hits 10 stacks.
To quote Vykina (method's mage):
In my eyes, what people are forgetting is the fact that Wushoolay doesnt have the same RPPM as Breath of the Hydra, it has a higher RPPM. You cant compare the procs and say 'this proc is better' when you do not consider the uptime of both trinkets. The uptime of Wushoolay is higher, so even if its proc would be worse it could still pull ahead of BotH.Actually, I had a good think last night about the trinkets and did a bit of napkin math, Wushoolay is 100% BiS, after that I'm not sure whether Breath or Cha-ye will be BiS, the 10 second window on Cha-ye is pretty awkward, and Breath seems to maintain a much higher uptime and align better with Wush. Hopefully I get access to Cha-ye this week just to confirm it.
Wush has way higher uptime than breath for us atm.. So, in a way Wush is better for most fights, only fights that BotH is better is when you luck out really high uptime or hero + combustion on pull, Currently on pulls with HC-TF BotH I have over 60k sp with procs and pot+ raid buffs and with Wush that number is way lower since it has a ramp up that means your first procs run out before it really ramps up. On pulls that start dps doesn't really matter for what ever reason, Wush is indeed better as it procs more over time in the fight, but where you get that massive start burst, BotH is immensly strong, given it has to proc and you have to get high crits for maximum benefit.
Could someone tell me why Cha'ye would be rated over BoH for frost? Imo the periodic chance to proc for BoH (esp. for frost) should have more uptime than the proc from crits on Cha'ye, or am I looking at it a way I shouldn't?
Vykina is wrong abt Cha-Ye's, it has higher uptime than either Breath or Wush for fire due to our crazy base crit. Plus it has 60% more crit rating than either BotH or Wush. And 10 second's is small window, but not something that is too small. Plus you can't delay your combustion for these trinkets so it will go at abt the same spot each time, procs are just benefits if they happen to align with combustion(wont happen much).
It's easy. Cha'Ye proc rate increase with haste (like all PPm trinket) and with Crit. As frost, 2 spell are always Critting : IL and FFB. And the other have around 25% chance to Crit. This is why this trinket is good.
In other hand, Breath need NT or LB to work. And Frost don't have any other DoT.
He's not wrong about it according to my logs.
Horridon heroic
Cha - 21 procs - 24.8% uptime
Breath - 9 procs - 21.5% uptime
Tortos Heroic
Cha - 11 - 20.4% uptime
Brea - 9 - 38.5% uptime
Council heroic
Cha - 15 - 26.8%
Brea - 7 - 27.7%
Megaera Heroic
Cha - 14 - 19.8%
Brea - 9 - 30.2%
Primordius Heroic ( DC'D mid kill so take it as you will)
Cha - 11 - 22.1%
Brea - 4 - 17.8%
Durumu Heroic
Cha - 15 - 23%
Brea - 17.3%
Dark Animus Normal
Cha - 7 - 29%
Brea - 4 - 33.2%
Iron Qon Heroic
Cha - 14 - 19%
Brea - 9 - 28.7%
Twins Heroic
Cha - 13 - 23.1%
Brea - 7 - 20.3%
Jin Heroic, Ji-kun Heroic, LeiShen normal all didn't log for some reason or another (think our logger was out those fights and the Ji-kun log bugged and counted normal not letting me access the data)
Overall it looks like Breath was better. (when breath beats cha its about a large percentage on most fights)
This was done with around 15400 crit and 6500 haste.