Guilds Falling Apart a Lot This Patch

[Strakha]

I don't think so, this is the only raiding tier I've cared about since ICC. MSV in particular I thought was really well designed in terms of encounters (Except Will of the Emperor which I just found boring other than dodging their special attacks). Heart of Fear is fun except for that dickbag Ambershaper (seriously that fight sucks on heroic). And Terrace is just annoying in general to me, other than Sha of Fear which is alright.

I think guilds fall apart naturally because it takes a lot of leadership to effectively run a guild properly and it's hard to satiate the needs of 9 other or 24 other people who all want to do different things.

[Dukenukem]

I think guilds fall apart naturally because it takes a lot of leadership to effectively run a guild properly and it's hard to satiate the needs of 9 other or 24 other people who all want to do different things.

more than leadership it takes dedication (specially 25), you just cant build a good guild overnight.

[schwarzkopf]

If anyone is in any doubt that T14 ended too early (10 man compared):

T11 : 3000 ( 4%) / 45000 (60%) - Note rough average of Nefarian/Cho'Gall/Al'Akir excluding Sinestra
T12 : 6666 (10%) / 37754 (60%) - To Rag
T13 : 9059 (15%) / 49342 (81%) - To Madness
T14 : 240 (0.6%) / 10284 (26%) - To Sha


Sources:
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier11_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier12_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier13_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier14_10

[Osmeric]

If anyone is in any doubt that T14 ended too early:

The reaction going forward will be interesting. I think T15 will see a collapse of normal raid participation, just like T12 did, and for the same reason: a large number of guilds that tried T14 weren't able to gear up effectively for the next tier, and gave up. We'll see if Blizzard reacts to that the same way they reacted to T12's implosion. Remember, T12 is where they finally cried uncle on the Cataclysm design.

[schwarzkopf]

We'll see if Blizzard reacts to that the same way they reacted to T12's implosion. Remember, T12 is where they finally cried uncle on the Cataclysm design.

The problem is - Blizzard's solution to T12 was to nerf the crap out of it and introduce LFR for T13 - neither of which really encouraged anything.

I've been raiding T14 since November - and I have 1 item to show for it, the rest are LFR, Sha of Anger, crafted and rep/VP stuff. That is pretty discouraging IMO (that's 40 boss kills or 80 bits of loot).

[tangers58]

Are you surprised? Blizzard is killing the game with its new World of Dailies setup.

[schwarzkopf]

Are you surprised? Blizzard is killing the game with its new World of Dailies setup.

Actually - the biggest hurdle we are facing is recruiting in the face of Guild Reputation. People are more likely to quit the game than change guilds recently.

[razski]

My guild is fine, thanks for your concern.

[Osmeric]

The problem is - Blizzard's solution to T12 was to nerf the crap out of it and introduce LFR for T13 - neither of which really encouraged anything.

I am really hoping that, this time, we'll also see personal consequences on the WoW dev team. When they make repeated mistakes, the solution has to be removal of the people who can't change.

---------- Post added 2013-02-21 at 05:05 PM ----------

Sources:
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier11_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier12_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier13_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier14_10

You need to look at the state of progression at the end of the tier, not current progression on old tiers. The latter is contaminated by guilds that did it later, after it was overgeared/overleveled.

[schwarzkopf]

You need to look at the state of progression at the end of the tier, not current progression on old tiers.

The older the tier, the less likely those will be marked as guild progression - because they are more likely to be pugs (transmog etc) or solos.

No - the figures for the end bosses are pretty much representative of the huge disparity between this tier and the others.

WIth only 2% of the WoW population seeing the end of the tier on normal and pretty much 0% seeing it on heroic - that is just poor design either in the difficulty (probably not) or the time given (probably) of this tier.

[judgementofantonidas]

If anyone is in any doubt that T14 ended too early (10 man compared):

T11 : 3000 ( 4%) / 45000 (60%) - Note rough average of Nefarian/Cho'Gall/Al'Akir excluding Sinestra
T12 : 6666 (10%) / 37754 (60%) - To Rag
T13 : 9059 (15%) / 49342 (81%) - To Madness
T14 : 240 (0.6%) / 10284 (26%) - To Sha


Sources:
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier11_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier12_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier13_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier14_10

There is no arguement agains the Dragonsoul tier being a gimmee.

[Volbian]

If anyone is in any doubt that T14 ended too early (10 man compared):

T11 : 3000 ( 4%) / 45000 (60%) - Note rough average of Nefarian/Cho'Gall/Al'Akir excluding Sinestra
T12 : 6666 (10%) / 37754 (60%) - To Rag
T13 : 9059 (15%) / 49342 (81%) - To Madness
T14 : 240 (0.6%) / 10284 (26%) - To Sha


Sources:
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier11_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier12_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier13_10
http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier14_10

I wouldnt look at WoWprogress for accurate information. It only takes 5 from the same guild to register a kill. Guildox, is more accurate because its based off actual guild achievements, which you need 8/10 or 20/25. Just throwing that out there.

[Osmeric]

I wouldnt look at WoWprogress for accurate information. It only takes 5 from the same guild to register a kill. Guildox, is more accurate because its based off actual guild achievements, which you need 8/10 or 20/25. Just throwing that out there.

Even with that, the difference between the two in current content isn't huge.

[Deleted]

This happens quite a bit at the end of tiers because people don't feel the need to put in the extra time and effort to get gear that they are just going to upgrade in a couple weeks anyways.

Which just shows how much the raiding system has cheapened. You can just skip to the latest and what came before doesn't matter in the slighest.

[schwarzkopf]

I wouldnt look at WoWprogress for accurate information.

It doesn't need to accurately reflect anything, it just has to be internally consistent - which it is.

[Darmalus]

I am really hoping that, this time, we'll also see personal consequences on the WoW dev team. When they make repeated mistakes, the solution has to be removal of the people who can't change.

Or they all receive a pat on the back for skyrocketing raiding (via LFR) participation, and normal and heroic modes continue to slide down their list of priorities.

As far as I know, we have no way to measure LFR participation in any meaningful sense. That really gives us an incomplete view of what's going on. I never had more than one character do current tier raiding before LFR, but now I consider LFR part of the standard gearing process for my alts, so just counting the number of characters with LFR achievements wont work.

[Osmeric]

Or they all receive a pat on the back for skyrocketing raiding (via LFR) participation, and normal and heroic modes continue to slide down their list of priorities

You are being entirely too realistic!

[Verain]

It doesn't need to accurately reflect anything, it just has to be internally consistent - which it is.

This. It's not like WoWProgress counted 3 people in dragonsoul and needs 9 in the current tier. The total numbers aren't what's important, the relative numbers are.


Far, FAR too short a tier, with tons of bosses and super thin loot spread. I could not have predicted that a tier with so many interesting and well designed bosses could be absolutely destroyed by these decisions:

1)- Dailies and Upgrades create a sense of militant dedication OR a sense of failure to meet expectations. Players who feel they are failing their guild are more likely to write off raiding entirely. Players who do not grumble loudly or quietly and try to enjoy their 8 item level advantage on a few pieces of loot. When you have multiple tiny percent wipes on the boss, don't you wonder who isn't upgrading their gear? A kill you would have had in a previous tier without such requirements.

2)- Very strange gating for the instances. Did any of you really feel epic when you were killing reg MV? If you were taking out HMV before HoF launched you probably felt good about that, but from my perspective there wasn't enough gear in the game yet.

3)- Really stupid boss loot. Hey, where's my sha-touched daggers? Oh, there's only one, and only on one boss. Where's the best shield? Heroic... Spirit Kings? Seriously? Nothing in the 10 bosses over two instances that drop good item level stuff? But there's like three mail spirit chests in HoF right? None of which the two specs of shaman (the only specs in the game that use it) want IIRC, because the tier is better. Plenty of holy plate!
With 16 bosses, loot hasn't felt this stupid since vanilla. I can't gear fresh players. A player who quits, their gear is simply not replaceable. The progression is not replaceable.


My server is absolutely imploding. We are losing another four guilds this week. It's a small server, sure, but it's been that way for a long time. The current raid game has simply turned the screws.



Again, good bosses, mostly reasonable class balance, interesting mechanics. I would never have guessed that this tier would be so wretched from design decisions alone.

[skrump]

People are just getting burnt out, after playing for 2+ hours every day doing dailies every day for tokens and valor to upgrade the gear they might get from their guild raids after spending another 3+ hours that night

I myself quit because I don't like the idea of logging on to wow everyday doing the same shit over and over like it's a job, I want to raid and pvp, that's it.