holy pvp 5.2

[pkm]

Is Holy going to be viable? I think focused will being added to holy is the only change i know going on. Is this gonna help when being focused? Where will holy be most viable?

[Yvaelle]

Holy would be most viable in RBGs because it scales best with raid-wide damage. Disc will likely generally be better off though because of the pro-active effect of Shield healing. Shields will also mean Disc is better off in 5v5s and 3v3s and 2v2s - but if Holy were going to shine in any of those, I suspect it would be 5v5. The problem with Holy PvP is that it has nothing that Disc doesn't have, but Disc has Pain Suppression (better than Guardian Spirit) and shields (better than heals).

Despite the Focused Will buff to Disc, I still don't think Disc will be very competitive next season outside of RMP (where their weaknesses in fragility and mana are compensated by endless peels and the ability to go drink whenever they want).

[Deleted]

Holy would be most viable in RBGs because it scales best with raid-wide damage. Disc will likely generally be better off though because of the pro-active effect of Shield healing. Shields will also mean Disc is better off in 5v5s and 3v3s and 2v2s - but if Holy were going to shine in any of those, I suspect it would be 5v5. The problem with Holy PvP is that it has nothing that Disc doesn't have, but Disc has Pain Suppression (better than Guardian Spirit) and shields (better than heals).

Despite the Focused Will buff to Disc, I still don't think Disc will be very competitive next season outside of RMP (where their weaknesses in fragility and mana are compensated by endless peels and the ability to go drink whenever they want).

The main selling points of Holy that I see are Chastise and better damage. Lightwell is also a minor one. It's also far better for dealing with spread pressure, which we'll see more of with Warlocks being slightly more playable.

[yurano]

The main selling points of Holy that I see are Chastise and better damage. Lightwell is also a minor one. It's also far better for dealing with spread pressure, which we'll see more of with Warlocks being slightly more playable.

Don't forget the lack of mana issues of Holy and Divine Hymn.

Holy's PW:S is almost as strong as Disc's. Drawbacks are increased CD and no Strength of Soul.

[Rivellana]

I haven't PvP'd at all yet this expansion and I want to get back into it. However, after being disc/holy for awhile now I've grown tired of not having a shadow spec for old content and dailies and the like. With all the changes to disc I think I want to go back to holy for PvE but I need to get back into regular battlegrounds and probably arena for points as well to get geared up on the updated gear before attempting any sort of competitive arenas or RBG.

After reading this thread I'm not so sure...would I be completely gimping myself by trying to use my same holy PvE spec for regular battlegrounds and arena for points while I'm trying to get geared up for PvP? Should I just stick with a disc spec instead? I have no idea how holy is playing in regular battlegrounds right now.

[Herrenos]

Glyphed Spirit of Redemption is also fairly powerful in the point-capture RBGs like Gilneas.

[pkm]

Bumping. Hope I can get some reply from holy priests so far.

[Danner]

I really don't think you will find a lot of serious PVPing from Holy priests. Sure, it's fun in the random battleground and all, but it's just not the right spec for the job if you are getting pressured. Focused Will may have helped, but holy still has less mana, and less survival cooldowns. And even if all that was equal, a pre-emptive shield is fantastic as disc; and not so fantastic as holy. It doesn't really matter if you can do more DPS; and it doesn't really matter that you can change chakra stances all the time. Dead is still dead.

The wow class design team seems to mirror this sentiment, as PVP balancing is all about disc and shadow. Only thanks to repeated nagging on twitter was Holy granted access to Focused Will as well. Holy''s reputation is still very bad, as is healing priest in general. I think it would take something beyond "somewhat able to cast two spells before dying now" to make the spec worth investing in.

My 2 coppers. Also; I very rarely do PVP, so my coppers may not be worth much.

[yurano]

I really don't think you will find a lot of serious PVPing from Holy priests. Sure, it's fun in the random battleground and all, but it's just not the right spec for the job if you are getting pressured. Focused Will may have helped, but holy still has less mana, and less survival cooldowns. And even if all that was equal, a pre-emptive shield is fantastic as disc; and not so fantastic as holy.

I don't understand. Disc has mana problems, Holy doesn't.

Guardian spirit might be worse than Pain Supression + PW: Barrier, but Holy has Lightspring as well. Its easy to avoid using cooldowns when you have extremely fat heals. For example, Paladins heal like trucks but their save your teammate CD is quite weak compared to other classes.

Holy can pre-emptive shield, just not on the entire team every 15 seconds. Its vastly outweighed by strong single target heals like 60-70k HW: Serenity.

I think the reason you don't see many Holy Priests at high ranked PvP is because players (whether they're skilled or not) tend to be resistant to class changing due to a skill barrier. Even if you're mostly proficient at every class, switching specs/classes and re-obtaining exceptionally skilled play (2200+) is difficult and time consuming.

[TaurenNinja]

One big problem in the past for Holy also was the lack of the % damage reduction that Disc had built-in. But this has been changed now so that both have it. Also, Guardian Spirit can't be dispelled anymore.
Disc has lost Divine Hymn, and so Disc has lost a way to heal from behind a pillar. Holy still has it, and it's an even stronger spell now.
I think Holy is viable (in Arena as well). It's just that Disc still has a better reputation. Maybe Disc is also still better, but I don't think by much anymore.
There was a Holy priest at 2400+ rating in Cataclysm. And now, even more should be possible.

[Danner]

I don't understand. Disc has mana problems, Holy doesn't.

I will easily admit that my disc experience is limited in PVP. I tried it but a few times. But my experience is at least that both specs run oom, but disc less so. Rapture being the major difference. It's not a lot, but it's there. I found that if I didn't spam PWS like a madman, my disc mana was actually quite sustainable. HPS of course, suffered.

Guardian spirit might be worse than Pain Supression + PW: Barrier, but Holy has Lightspring as well. Its easy to avoid using cooldowns when you have extremely fat heals. For example, Paladins heal like trucks but their save your teammate CD is quite weak compared to other classes.

Holy can pre-emptive shield, just not on the entire team every 15 seconds. Its vastly outweighed by strong single target heals like 60-70k HW: Serenity.

I think the reason you don't see many Holy Priests at high ranked PvP is because players (whether they're skilled or not) tend to be resistant to class changing due to a skill barrier. Even if you're mostly proficient at every class, switching specs/classes and re-obtaining exceptionally skilled play (2200+) is difficult and time consuming.

I absolutely agree, and that was what I was trying to say. Sorry for failing to convey this message!

Holy may not be terrible anymore. I believe Focused Will really made a difference; at least I feel like I can cast two spells if I'm being focused down. But then I die. This is a much better state than in 5.1 when I died before landing a single spell, if a DK wanted me dead. Holy feels roughly like disc now, though heavier focused on healing and less on mitigation. But when focused, I really feel I lack a lot of survival cooldowns. Which really is just down to lacking Pain Supression I guess.

Bottom line; I don't think Holy is great in PVP. It's fun in battlegrounds, but not awesome. And since it's not awesome, why aren't you playing a paladin instead? It's not a question of disc vs holy; it's a question of priest vs paladin. As long as that answer is paladin, Holy won't have many players. Just because the cost of gearing up and learning a new spec isn't rewarded nearly as much as going paladin. And if you're not going paladin, I still believe Disc is better for PVP.

But again, that's my opinion. Which really shouldn't count for much, since I only do casual battlegrounds when otherwise bored.

[yurano]

I will easily admit that my disc experience is limited in PVP. I tried it but a few times. But my experience is at least that both specs run oom, but disc less so. Rapture being the major difference. It's not a lot, but it's there. I found that if I didn't spam PWS like a madman, my disc mana was actually quite sustainable. HPS of course, suffered.

From my experience, its easier to maintain high healing output without risk of going oom as Holy.

But when focused, I really feel I lack a lot of survival cooldowns. Which really is just down to lacking Pain Supression I guess.

Guardian Spirit yourself, PWS can absorb a truck load of damage and Serenity heals for a ton too. If you get a 1.5 seconds to heal, Flash Heal heals for roughly 75-100K, more than Flash of Light.

And since it's not awesome, why aren't you playing a paladin instead? It's not a question of disc vs holy; it's a question of priest vs paladin.

Its a lot easier to gang bang a paladin. This is from experience playing both Holy Priests and Paladins as well as DPS trying to kill said healers. Focused Will makes Priests the most tanky, without significantly sacrificing utility/control of a Paladin while at the same time maintaining high healing output (maybe even higher than paladins) without significant risk of going OOM.

[pkm]

I have a thing for playing the unique and less represented classes and specs. My main is ele shaman pvp, middle ground class nothing special but I really enjoy it. Same with Holy priests. I hate disc I really do. So far from what I am seeing is holy actually doing pretty well. Not like paladins but I find it to be more fun.

Any who, I'm going to gear for it. But I was wondering if anyone knows what is the stat priority for holy pvp?

[Necropotence]

I'm trying out holy right now (albeit I am very undergeared).

My first impression is that I really really miss the silence protection on Inner Focus. Apart from that Holy does have some nice instant casts (and bigger heals) but this seems offset by the fact that you are squishier (missing pain suppression/power word barrier). I'm not sure yet if Guardian Spirit is a suitable replacement to pain suppression...but will hopefully get a better idea on that with more games.

[Nightstorm]

Holy is very strong in 2s and RBG. I found in 3s I need to learn a diff play style and have not tried 5s.