Sex Change Policy Being Considered By Yale

[Raiju]

one of my friends committed suicide because he was transgender. i dont think it should be considered in quite the same category as "cosmetic" procedures.

It is a cosmetic procedure. The term you're looking for is a procedure for reasons of solely vanity (and not mental health)

Feluna, the fact you mispelled red basically summed up your entire posts ignorance. It is a cosmetic surgery, and you can compare it with a boob job for some people. YOU are assuming transgender is a special issue just because it gets more lime-light.

@Narzinor, you don't just get a surgery with such treatment. If you did, that WOULD be purely vanity.

[Deleted]

I don't see why people think that the basic GRS is so expensive it cannot be covered. Like many have said the surgery they plan on covering is only about 10-30k.

http://www.healthcarebluebook.com/pa...=33&dataset=MD

That's the fair price to have a fractured leg fixed.

13k.

I think more people need to see what the price of surgery is for even the littlest things before they talk about one of them being drastically more expensive than another.


I personally think that it should be covered, and the price of it shouldn't be an issue. Considering it costs, on average, less than 2 broken legs.

13k for a broken leg, and people have the nerve to complain about the NHS......

[Kraenen]

Eh, I have nothing against the lgbt community but sex changes I don't get. It does not change your dna, it is your dna that makes you a female or a woman, whether your XY or XX. The surgery would just make you look like one, not become one.

This is my point. I had the impression that gender was an internal schema not based on the body.

[Deadvolcanoes]

So classifying chopping up your genatils as butchery rejects science how?

Chopping? Are you under the impression that they use a meat cleaver?

Do you also consider heart surgery to be "butchering" oneself?

These are operations based on medical conditions. It's by no means butchering, and the only way you could hold that view point is if:

A. You are ignorant of the information

B. You reject the science

[starlord]

It is a cosmetic procedure. The term you're looking for is a procedure for reasons of solely vanity (and not mental health)

Feluna, the fact you mispelled red basically summed up your entire posts ignorance. It is a cosmetic surgery, and you can compare it with a boob job for some people. YOU are assuming transgender is a special issue just because it gets more lime-light.

@Narzinor, you don't just get a surgery with such treatment. If you did, that WOULD be purely vanity.

the condition is extremely damaging mentally & emotionally to the person, which has all been verified many times over.

[Underverse]

This is my point. I had the impression that gender was an internal schema not based on the body.

I think it can and often is based on body image, which is why people sometimes decide to change that image.

[Raiju]

the condition is extremely damaging mentally & emotionally to the person, which has all been verified many times over.

As are many many many other mental disorders that can be treated with cosmetic surgery. But then you open up all cosmetic surgery and due to the vague boundaries in DSM you are not going to be able to STOP people getting them for whatever reason they like if they can lie.

[starlord]

This is my point. I had the impression that gender was an internal schema not based on the body.

that would be sex. gender is a diffefent thing.

[DEATHETERNAL]

Chopping? Are you under the impression that they use a meat cleaver?

Do you also consider heart surgery to be "butchering" oneself?

These are operations based on medical conditions. It's by no means butchering, and the only way you could hold that view point is if:

A. You are ignorant of the information

B. You reject the science

So just to clarify, you do not consider making someone a eunuch to be butchery and by considering making someone a eunuch to be butchery, I reject science? Please tell me what science I am rejecting.

[Underverse]

the condition is extremely damaging mentally & emotionally to the person, which has all been verified many times over.

There is debate I think on the best ways of solving the problem. It seems like most people agree that it exists, and it is highly damaging. The source of the problem and methods of solution are what people are worrying about.

Getting a sex change is a drastic solution, but maybe not the best. If the problem is, for example, cause by social factors, sex changes are nothing but bandaid fixes, and the most effective solution would be to change social structure. Course, that takes a lot of time, so a bandaid fix makes sense for now. I think it's important, though, not to lose sight of the endgame, which is broad social change.

[Deleted]

I have known since i was VERY young i SHOULD have been a girl. My sense of self for a long time was that I AM a girl, and I am taking strides to fix it. I had a picture in my head of what I should be, what i was meant to be... I am transitioning to get as close that as i can.

OK, this is really, really going to sound extremely stupid.

But why not a cat or a strawberry, or a chair. If some people really feel that they should have been a girl or boy, meaning that the world, what is, was not right. why stop at sexe change.
I see no real difference between wanting to be a car or wanting to be a girl, or a chair, or a lake.
What I can't wrap my head around is that sense of things not being as they should have been.
What is even more, is that I can understand that one want to change sex, just because one can, but not out of some weird feeling.
i was meant to be that or this, i dont understand. I want to be that or this, just because, i actually do.

[Underverse]

that would be sex. gender is a diffefent thing.

I was under the impression that sex is biological characteristics and gender is what you feel like you are

[Kraenen]

that would be sex. gender is a diffefent thing.

sex is a mental concept? you might have the two mixed up

[Underverse]

OK, this is really, really going to sound extremely stupid.

But why not a cat or a strawberry, or a chair. If some people really feel that they should have been a girl or boy, meaning that the world, what is, was not right. why stop at sexe change.
I see no real difference between wanting to be a car or wanting to be a girl, or a chair, or a lake.
What I can't wrap my head around is that sense of things not being as they should have been.
What is even more, is that I can understand that one want to change sex, just because one can, but not out of some weird feeling.
i was meant to be that or this, i dont understand. I want to be that or this, just because, i actually do.

Is there any social pressure to be a chair or a lake?

[Raiju]

There is debate I think on the best ways of solving the problem. It seems like most people agree that it exists, and it is highly damaging. The source of the problem and methods of solution are what people are worrying about.

Getting a sex change is a drastic solution, but maybe not the best. If the problem is, for example, cause by social factors, sex changes are nothing but bandaid fixes, and the most effective solution would be to change social structure. Course, that takes a lot of time, so a bandaid fix makes sense for now. I think it's important, though, not to lose sight of the endgame, which is broad social change.

I am of the opinion that it is a social structure that causes this to be an issue, but noone here (noone, doesn't even matter if you were top of the damn field right now) can really say for sure. Because of that I would fully support these procedures for quite a while to go.

[Rukentuts]

I was under the impression that sex is biological characteristics and gender is what you feel like you are

But the biological has an effect on gender, because the brain can develop as one and the body as another. With the hormones of a man, and the brain of a woman, this is why it's called "gender-dysphoria".

Is there any social pressure to be a chair or a lake?

Does the brain developing as another gender cause one to be an inanimate object?

[Underverse]

I am of the opinion that it is a social structure that causes this to be an issue, but noone here (noone, doesn't even matter if you were top of the damn field right now) can really say for sure. Because of that I would fully support these procedures for quite a while to go.

yeah and that's pretty much where things are at right now

[starlord]

As are many many many other mental disorders that can be treated with cosmetic surgery. But then you open up all cosmetic surgery and due to the vague boundaries in DSM you are not going to be able to STOP people getting them for whatever reason they like if they can lie.

can be treated, or can only be treated? and people have no problem giving out other kinds of treatment for other conditions, even if "the person could just be a really good liar and fool the mental evaluators".
although it really makes no sense that someone who does not have the condition would want to do it, since by definition they would to be their original gender..

[Raiju]

But the biological has an effect on gender, because the brain can develop as one and the body as another. With the hormones of a man, and the brain of a woman, this is why it's called "gender-dysphoria".

Does the brain developing as another gender cause one to be an inanimate object?

Which in the future for all we know may be treated with a simple pill that won't have huge side effects, simply stopping you from feeling the extreme discomfort. It's a point of contention because so much isn't understood.

@ darenyon, you can treat any mental disorder without surgery, it's just significantly harder in these examples. I also think you misunderstood. It is possible to argue psychological disorder that can be alleviated with things like cosmetic surgery such as boobjobs. That is the *problem* with this, it would eventually massively inflate those premiums for the sake of pandering to PC'ness.

Fund transgender surgeries all you want, but do not add it to the policy for this sake and do not keep it within the uni, really.

[Rukentuts]

Which in the future for all we know may be treated with a simple pill that won't have huge side effects, simply stopping you from feeling the extreme discomfort. It's a point of contention because so much isn't understood.

The reason they change the body to fit the mind is because the brain is such a mystery.